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IL: Man charged for failing to aid officer
St. Louis Post Dispatch ^ | 8/17/2005 | Leah Thorsen

Posted on 08/19/2005 6:06:40 AM PDT by NuclearDruid

"It's not what Peter Skinner did, but rather what he didn't do, that landed him in jail.

Skinner saw, but did not help, a Wood River police officer subdue a teen suspected of stealing a car.

And that is why Skinner, 41, is scheduled to appear in court Aug. 26 to face a misdemeanor charge of refusing to aid an officer. "Why I'm involved as anything but a witness is beyond me," he said Wednesday in an interview in his apartment in Wood River."

"Illinois law states that a person must help an officer who asks for help 'apprehending a person whom the officer is authorized to apprehend.'"

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; illinois; jackbootedthugs; peterskinner; woodriver
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I'm pretty certain there is a Supreme Court ruling to the effect that there's no obligation for a law enforcement officer to come to the aid of a civilian. Seems to me that should be a two-way street. Of course, this did happen in the City-State of Chicago aka Illinois.
1 posted on 08/19/2005 6:06:43 AM PDT by NuclearDruid
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To: NuclearDruid

I think you're spot on ND.

-CT


2 posted on 08/19/2005 6:07:56 AM PDT by correctthought (Hippies, want to change the world, but all they ever do is smoke pot and smell bad)
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To: NuclearDruid
If I wanted to help a copy arrest a perp I would have become a cop. This is completely ridiculous.
3 posted on 08/19/2005 6:10:09 AM PDT by T.Smith
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To: NuclearDruid

Exactly. I believe in CCW precisely because courts have ruled many times that a cop is not required by law to assist a civilian during a crime in progress. It should go the other way, too.


4 posted on 08/19/2005 6:10:19 AM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity ("A litany of complaints is not a plan." -- G.W. Bush, regarding Sen. Kerry's lack of vision)
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To: T.Smith

Dang it! Copy=Cop.


5 posted on 08/19/2005 6:10:32 AM PDT by T.Smith
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To: NuclearDruid

If he is not paid for the aid, then it's involuntary servitude, aka SLAVERY!.........


6 posted on 08/19/2005 6:15:15 AM PDT by Red Badger (Want to be surprised? GOOOOGLE your own name. Want to have fun? GOOOOGLE your neighbor's......)
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To: NuclearDruid

Policeman asks for help say ok, take his gun and shoot the thief. :D /obvious sarcasm


7 posted on 08/19/2005 6:17:25 AM PDT by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com)
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To: NuclearDruid

I suspect that the law will unconstitutional if it is ever placed to the test. You cannot take work from a citizen without just compensation; then there are all of the other issues involving the personal liability of the deputized citizen; and their relative ability and personal risk of injury. This does not seem like a well thought out law.


8 posted on 08/19/2005 6:17:29 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: T.Smith
Yes, particularly when you consider the possiblity of litigation. LEOs are imdemified for against these sorts of problems, civilians are not.

More evidence that society is in a state of collective madness.

9 posted on 08/19/2005 6:17:50 AM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: Echo Talon
Policeman asks for help say ok, take his gun and shoot the thief. :D /obvious sarcasm

Police would have ALOT more help here in Illinois...if they let us freely exercise our second ammendment rights.

10 posted on 08/19/2005 6:20:51 AM PDT by BureaucratusMaximus (The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level.)
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To: NuclearDruid

the part about "helping your fellow man" ??? yeah right - who gives a s**t anymore, right?

That is what I hear on this board - The man should NOT have been charged with a crime for not helping the police, but on the same token, he SHOULD have helped to his utmost ability.

This is the least/left coast big city liberal mentality - gimme gimme gimme - but I won't lift a finger to help.

all you, please never move into my neighborhood.


11 posted on 08/19/2005 6:22:02 AM PDT by hombre_sincero
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To: BureaucratusMaximus

agreed.


12 posted on 08/19/2005 6:23:01 AM PDT by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com)
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To: ARCADIA

it's probably either a 100 year old law where cops were fewer and actually worth something, and the citizen were more likely to volunteer to posse up, or a law dating back to 30s where officers might require a citizen's help against mobsters.


13 posted on 08/19/2005 6:23:37 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: NuclearDruid

Seinfeld finale?


14 posted on 08/19/2005 6:24:32 AM PDT by L98Fiero
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To: NuclearDruid

Isn't this why Jerry, George and Elaine went to jail?


15 posted on 08/19/2005 6:26:34 AM PDT by JIM O
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To: NuclearDruid
What if the perp suffers a real, or imagined, injury during the arrest? Or what if the indidual himself is injured? Is the individual who aided the Cop covered for this libility?

I hate to even ask these questions, but let's face it, the lawyers are in control.

16 posted on 08/19/2005 6:27:34 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty
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To: JIM O

Don't forget Cosmo!


17 posted on 08/19/2005 6:28:17 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty
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To: hombre_sincero

big difference. i'll jump to help a neighbor, but if i see a cop arresting someone, i'm gonna stay back in case the cop turns out to be a jackboot thug and shoots ME thinking i'm attacking him.


18 posted on 08/19/2005 6:28:34 AM PDT by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: NuclearDruid
I would put this in the same category as helping a drowning person. I am not a life guard and I am not a good swimmer. If I see someone who is in danger of drowning I am limited in what I can do to help in view of my lack of aquatic skills. As tempting as it might be, I have to remind myself that it will do no good for me to drown trying to save the other person. Regardless of the merit of my intentions if I act beyond my demonstrated abilities I will end up leaving a widow and three fatherless children behind. My actions would, however, benefit the local funeral home community.

In case of the law enforcement officer needing help I would be limited to using his/her radio or my cell phone to summon backup.
19 posted on 08/19/2005 6:30:07 AM PDT by jwpjr
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To: NuclearDruid

The city state of Chicago is about 300 miles from Wood River.
Wood River is across the Mississippi River from St. Louis


20 posted on 08/19/2005 6:30:11 AM PDT by Tspud1
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To: NuclearDruid
Some say tomato, some say tomahto....

The cop said he said.......

Skinner said the cop didn't say what he said he said......

Cop said vs....

Skinner said.....

Skinner loses.

Oh, let's call the whole thing off.

Leni

21 posted on 08/19/2005 6:30:24 AM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: NuclearDruid

I think he should be prosecuted just for the expression on his face.

22 posted on 08/19/2005 6:30:34 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is merely Nazism without the snappy fashion sense.)
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To: hombre_sincero

I'm with you. I find this reaction astounding.


23 posted on 08/19/2005 6:31:05 AM PDT by WillMalven (It don't matter where you are when "the bomb" goes off, as long as you can say "What was that?")
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To: jwpjr
I would put this in the same category as helping a drowning person.

Except, of course, the drowning person has a knife or gun and might want to kill you.

24 posted on 08/19/2005 6:31:35 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is merely Nazism without the snappy fashion sense.)
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To: hombre_sincero
the part about "helping your fellow man" ??? yeah right - who gives a s**t anymore, right?

Voluntary "helping of your fellow man" is alot different than what is being described in this article hombre.

That is what I hear on this board - The man should NOT have been charged with a crime for not helping the police, but on the same token, he SHOULD have helped to his utmost ability.

You go right ahead bring your knife to a gunfight hombre, oh yeah...there is that issue about this law being un-Constitutional...but what the hell? Hombres like you have been pissing on the Constitution for a while now.

This is the least/left coast big city liberal mentality - gimme gimme gimme - but I won't lift a finger to help.

Thous dost complanth too much...especially for a NEWBIE, hombre.

all you, please never move into my neighborhood.

Don't worry hombre....most of us will never be moving to CUBA anytime soon.

Viva Castro eh? Hows communism working for yeah?

25 posted on 08/19/2005 6:32:04 AM PDT by BureaucratusMaximus (The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level.)
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To: NuclearDruid

Hey, if a cop is not under obligation to help me, then neither am I to him. Call for more backup, officer.


26 posted on 08/19/2005 6:34:55 AM PDT by PAMadMax (Islam is the enemy of all mankind...AlJazeera is its PR Firm)
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To: BureaucratusMaximus

I can't help but think of Columbine. Bunch of cops standing around while high school kids were executed, but now we're supposed to aid any cop who can't do the job he's paid for.


27 posted on 08/19/2005 6:36:08 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: Lazamataz

"I think he should be prosecuted just for the expression on his face."

This guy doesn't look like he would be much help unless the cop needed the answer to some Star Trek trivia.


28 posted on 08/19/2005 6:39:13 AM PDT by BadAndy (Back from temporary moderator-induced exile.)
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To: NuclearDruid
Where to start? The cop needs help, and asks you for it.

I would help to the utmost of my ability, if requested to do so.

(If he/she does not ask for help, but is capable of doing so, stay out of the way--you might be percieved as a threat.)

To not help is to give tacit aproval to the criminal element.

I carry a concealed weapon to intervene, not only in threats to my life and well being, but to, if necessary, intervene on behalf of third parties as well. This is an action which is legally protected in my home state.

Without that aspect in the population, what incentive do the cops have in backing CCW laws?

For those who talk about expense, etc, if they get hurt, I can pretty much guarantee any civillian who gets hurt helping a cop will have the entire police force's fundraising effort to help them out, and in some areas, the commmunity as well.

As for expensive, let the perp get away, hurt or kill the cop, and commit other crimes as well. That will cost the whole community.

In many jurisdictions Good Samaritan laws handle the liability aspect as long as you act in good faith.

For the record, I have never been employed in law enforcement, nor do I consider myself to be a law enforcement wannabe by any stretch of the imagination.

29 posted on 08/19/2005 6:49:36 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: hombre_sincero

and if you get injured by the perp bitten/blood/maimed whos is going to pay for your damages.


30 posted on 08/19/2005 6:50:53 AM PDT by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: Smokin' Joe
Your post is ironic when compared to your tagline.
31 posted on 08/19/2005 6:52:20 AM PDT by T.Smith
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To: hombre_sincero

Assuming he assists the officer, and is injured in some form or fashion, how much responsiblity will the city and police department assume in paying his medical bills, his lost income, etc?


32 posted on 08/19/2005 6:53:27 AM PDT by Tennessee_Bob ("Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!")
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To: NuclearDruid
This cop needed help subduing a 14-year-old boy who couldn't even change a freaking tire? Good grief. The man should be fired.
What a doofus.
33 posted on 08/19/2005 6:55:47 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: Lazamataz

Poor guy. You know he's hating whoever shot that photo.


34 posted on 08/19/2005 6:57:24 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: L98Fiero; JIM O; sonsofliberty

Life imitating art.


35 posted on 08/19/2005 7:01:49 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Lazamataz
re: drowning person has a knife or gun and might want to kill you.

I know from my limited exposure to lifesaving courses that a drowning person is as dangerous to the would-be rescuer as a weapon. I can barely keep myself afloat, let alone a panicked struggling second non-swimmer.
36 posted on 08/19/2005 7:02:20 AM PDT by jwpjr
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To: T.Smith
I think you confuse a sense of responsibility to my family and community and those who protect it with those who would save us all from the eeevillls of left-handed nosepicking or some such.

For instance, the do-gooders in my tagline would immediately demand a law that you put the seat down, if you are male, when done, just to prevent the crippling trauma of sitting on the cold bowl for a female who used the facility after you and who did not notice the seat was up--even if the restroom was designated as a Men's Room.

I do not need anyone to save me from myself, thank you very much!

Nor do I think the guy should be charged with a crime for not helping the policeman, he has a right to be a sniveling pu$$y if he wants to. But by the same token, when his neighborhood goes to hell in a handbasket, he will have himself to thank for not helping stand up to the criminal element there.

37 posted on 08/19/2005 7:03:59 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)
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To: absolootezer0

I work nights at a major mid-western university. I kid the cops by saying "If you guys deputized me and gave me a pistol, I would see a lot more at night"...


38 posted on 08/19/2005 7:05:37 AM PDT by chadwimc
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To: NuclearDruid

So if this guy had helped, and got hurt, would it be the criminals fault, or the cops fault?


39 posted on 08/19/2005 7:07:26 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: jwpjr
Ref: In case of the law enforcement officer needing help I would be limited to using his/her radio or my cell phone to summon backup.

That is exactly what the People's Republic of Illinois demands that you do if you are being the victim of a crime yourself since You are not allowed to legally exercise your 2nd Amendment rights to protect yourself.

Sorry about the Policeman's Luck. I would be all too happy to help, but I know full well that the Cop would probably arrest me and the Perp would probably sue me. Let em eat Cake!

RamS
40 posted on 08/19/2005 7:08:47 AM PDT by RamingtonStall (More Guns ==> Less Crime! Get your CHL today!)
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To: L98Fiero; JIM O

41 posted on 08/19/2005 7:09:43 AM PDT by linkinpunk
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To: All

I would have no problem pimp slapping the young punk but not if I had "pork steaks" in the oven!!
Yum!! Pork fat rules!!


42 posted on 08/19/2005 7:10:05 AM PDT by vvatcer
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To: Tennessee_Bob
"Assuming he assists the officer, and is injured in some form or fashion, how much responsiblity will the city and police department assume in paying his medical bills, his lost income, etc?"

Apparently all. If the govt. can force him to help a police officer it would certainly be liable for any injuries he sustained during the encounter. Knowing the government, he would probably have to sue to get anything though.
43 posted on 08/19/2005 7:15:18 AM PDT by monday
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To: Echo Talon
Well placed sarcasm.

They're asking for the assistance of people untrained in the levels of reasonable force. This could easily lead to "brutality" when a civilian freaks and pushes the "destroy the danger" button.

So what protects the citizen from criminal and civil suit?

This, by the way, is a form of slavery. Even jurists get paid for the "compulsory volunteerism," albeit a pittance.
44 posted on 08/19/2005 7:20:49 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
I don't think not running to tackle a guy in an altercation with a cop makes one a "pu$$y". You have to consider the issue by degrees and only act if the situation is black and white. If there is any room for doubt, don't act. As others have pointed out, the risks to yourself are too great. In the heat of the moment the officer could easily consider you an additional threat and cause you great bodily harm. That would be my take on the situation.
45 posted on 08/19/2005 7:24:58 AM PDT by T.Smith
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To: NuclearDruid

The cop wouldn't need to ask me - I'd jump right in - especially if I thought the cop was getting the short end of the stick.


46 posted on 08/19/2005 7:25:39 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
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To: hombre_sincero
"The man should NOT have been charged with a crime for not helping the police, but on the same token, he SHOULD have helped to his utmost ability."

Did you read the article? He said that not only did the cop never ask for help but that it appeared to him that the cop never needed help, that he had the situation well under control.

Are you telling us that you would have jumped in to subdue a criminal under those circumstances? What if the cop had charged you with interfering with a law enforcement officer, or worse, with assault on the prisoner?

Tell you what, if they pass a law that police officers must help me do my job whenever I call them for assistance, then I will gladly help them do theirs when they need help. Until then, forget it.
47 posted on 08/19/2005 7:32:15 AM PDT by monday
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To: RamingtonStall
My concern would be that officers arriving as backup would mistake me for the original perp and unload on me, either with nightsticks or firearms. As my Mom used to say, "no good deed goes unpunished!"
48 posted on 08/19/2005 7:37:05 AM PDT by jwpjr
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To: Tspud1

I understand the physical geography, but I was refering to the political geography. I referenced the classical "city-state" form of sovereignty where the political control of the city extends into the surrounding hinterlands. If one were to draw a circle with a radius of, say, 45 miles centered on the Sears Tower you would find that it encompassed all or part of at least 50% of the House AND Senate districts. Thus, while some may call it the State of Illinois, given the influence of the Daley family those outside that circle can equally refer to it as the City-State of Chicago.


49 posted on 08/19/2005 7:44:49 AM PDT by NuclearDruid
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To: hombre_sincero
That is what I hear on this board - The man should NOT have been charged with a crime for not helping the police, but on the same token, he SHOULD have helped to his utmost ability.

Really? Why?

See, the LEO's are "trained" to handle these situations (isn't that what they say?)...and citizens are denied their lawful rights under the 2nd Ammendment under the fig-leaf that they are not "trained or safe" enough to posess a weapon for self-defense.

Couple that with the Black Robed Nazgul Supremes ruling that says that citizens are NOT GUARANTEED PROTECTION from the police....and then remember the poor IL.(Chicago?) woman who called 9/11 because she was being MURDERED by a man she had a restraining order on, and the cops STOPPED AT A DRIVE-THRU before responding (they took 30 minutes if I remember correctly)...now we have Kelo decision, and this crap where ILLEGALS got to sue the guy they were trespassing against, and they were GIVEN HIS RANCH!

Nope...if I am a serf...I will NOT risk my life...MY PROPERTY...and LAWSUITS that would bankrupt me and take everything away from my family.. for ANY LEO/Politician/Judge until we are returned our RIGHTS as citizens! I will do EVERYTHING to protect me and mine though...B.I.T.S. is coming.

Judge/Lawyer/Politicain...Rope...Tree*!

(*some assembly required)

50 posted on 08/19/2005 7:51:59 AM PDT by Itzlzha ("The avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote")
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