Frist backs 'intelligent design' teaching

AP ^ | 8/19/5 | ROSE FRENCH

[SmithL]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Echoing similar comments from President Bush, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said "intelligent design" should be taught in public schools alongside evolution.

Frist, R-Tenn., spoke to a Rotary Club meeting Friday and told reporters afterward that students need to be exposed to different ideas, including intelligent design.

"I think today a pluralistic society should have access to a broad range of fact, of science, including faith," Frist said.

Frist, a doctor who graduated from Harvard Medical School, said exposing children to both evolution and intelligent design "doesn't force any particular theory on anyone. I think in a pluralistic society that is the fairest way to go about education and training people for the future."

The theory of intelligent design says life on earth is too complex to have developed through evolution, implying that a higher power must have had a hand in creation. Nearly all scientists dismiss it as a scientific theory, and critics say it's nothing more than religion masquerading as science.

Bush recently told a group of Texas reporters that intelligent design and evolution should both be taught in schools "so people can understand what the debate is about."

That comment sparked criticism from opponents, including Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean, who called Bush "anti-science."

Frist, who is considering a presidential campaign in 2008, recently angered some conservatives by bucking Bush policy on embryonic stem cell research, voicing his support for expanded research on the subject.

Frist said his decision to endorse stem cell research was "a matter of science," but he said there was no conflict between his position on stem cell research and his position on intelligent design.

"To me, I see no disconnect between that and stem cell research," Frist said. "I base my beliefs on stem cell research both on science and my faith.

[Borges]

I think today a pluralistic society should have access to a broad range of fact, of science, including faith

As long as they are taught in the appropriate classes. Faith in Bible Study, Science in Science class.

[the invisib1e hand]

a generation and the future of a nation will be changed because the president had the courage to speak up. amazing. this man looks so far ahead...

[Physicist]

Either he doesn't know better (unlikely), or he's pandering. Either way, it reflects very badly on him.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Nearly all scientists dismiss it as a scientific theory . . .

If it is a scientific theory, then why would they want to dismiss it?

[keithtoo]

This issue isn't going away. You Evol-Doers will have to start defending your 'belief-system' with actual Science, instead of blind belief.

P.S. Science must be observable and repeatable. Have fun kiddies.

[NJ_gent]

"Echoing similar comments from President Bush, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said "intelligent design" Scientology and Raelianism should be taught in public schools alongside evolution."

Beam me up; the aliens are coming to get us!

[RightWingAtheist]

It doesn't reflect well on the rest of the party either. What's really scary is that people are now going to start taking Dean's comments about Bush (and by implication, all other Republicans) being "anti-science" seriously, instead of being another of his moonbat ravings.

[keithtoo]

Yup, the Raelians believed in something that noone had ever observed, just like Darwinists.

[Junior]

"The madness spreads" ping.

[annalex]

It is always nice to see the Darwinist superstition getting kicked, but Frist is probably trying to regain his reputation after his support for embryonic stem cell research.

[NJ_gent]

"Either way, it reflects very badly on him."

Bill Frist is carrying a message from the creators. Hubbard/Rael in '08!

[Non-Sequitur]

Either he doesn't know better (unlikely), or he's pandering.

He could be doing both. He's running for president after all.

[Right Wing Professor]

He's pandering. He's trying to ingratiate himself with the RR after his stem-cell statement.

I've had it with the GOP. Megaspending, total cave in on racial preferences, inaction or worse on illegal immigration, pandering to fundamentalists...it's back to the Libertarian Party for me.

[NJ_gent]

"Yup, the Raelians believed in something that noone had ever observed, just like Darwinists."

Who told you that events predicted by the ToE have never been observed?

[Mylo]

They dismiss it AS a scientific theory, as in IT AINT ONE.

Also even if it was a scientific theory (presupposing supernatural intervention is not science it is theology); it would be dismissed along with any other scientific theory that the evidence doesn't tend to support.

The evidence doesn't support it.

It isn't a scientific theory.

Scientists reject it for both reasons.

[Iowegian]

Evolutions are on the same side as crazy Howard Dean (among many other antivalues flaming libs on your side). Very telling.

[Right Wing Professor]

Science must be observable and repeatabl

Good luck with ID on those. What are you going to do for repeatability; ask your god to remake the universe?

[My2Cents]

Good point. When has evolution ever conformed to the scientific method?

[My2Cents]

Why are you folks so threatened by a discussion of the possibility of intelligent design?

[NJ_gent]

Here's a whole page on observed speciation events; the most important events in the ToE.

Microevolution is not in dispute. Speciation and extinction are the macroevolution events. Both have been observed.

[ValenB4]

I suspect he knows better and is pandering. When it's all said and done, ID won't be taught in science class and he knows it. But doing this enables him to look good to the IDers.

[taxesareforever]

Well I won't go Libertarian but I will go Independent.

[NJ_gent]

"Why are you folks so threatened by a discussion of the possibility of intelligent design?"

We're not threatened; the proper education of America's youth is. Religion belongs in religion class; science belongs in science class. Teaching that space aliens created mankind and left no evidence other than "but we're really complex!" has no place in a science class.

[Shermy]

"P.S. Science must be observable and repeatable."

The irony of "intelligent design" is its fundamental premise is not too intelligent, at least humans aren't. The premise human observers presumptively see biological processes as "complex" therefore human abilities to explain these biological processes as biological processes are doomed to failure, AND, the only alternative explanation is to have a more intelligent force dictating the biological processes.

As a science, which it tries to be, "intelligent design" is fraudulent. Cherrypicking gaps in evolutionary sciences is another element of the cause. As if we don't know everything about physics, therefore we can't ever and therefore an intelligent force is the explanation. Observability is not a condition for validating intelligent design.

[Moral Hazard]

"Good point. When has evolution ever conformed to the scientific method?"

Every time we see a gene "turned off" in the DNA of a modern organism we see evidence of evolution, a past in which the ancestor of that organism had the gene functioning. We also see a refutation of intelligent design at the same time, as what intelligent design would include non-functional DNA?

[Right Wing Professor]

Why are you folks so threatened by a discussion of the possibility of intelligent design

I've been discussing ID here for the last four years. I'm opposed, as a teacher of science, to religious fundamentalists telling me what I or other teachers of science should teach in science class.

[soupcon]

The Budd Hopkins School of Intelligent Design.

[Old Professer]

In the political arena, opinion is all; reason is a terrible master for it demands one to abandon eternity as a goal while reminding us that it waits for none.

[JNL]

Exactly!

"so people can understand what the debate is about."

There is no debate as there is no way to debate the issue. Evolution is science, ID is faith.

Now back to my cheese noodle that I'm sure created us all and whom I now intend to worship. Anyone want to join in.

[Physicist]

Why are you folks so threatened by a discussion of the possibility of intelligent design?

Because it's harmful to present pseudoscience to children as being equivalent to established science. I would react the same way if astrology were taught alongside astronomy, because it's the same thing.

[DaGman]

And Frist is an educated M.D. that has studied biology intensely. Frist doesn't believe in ID anymore than he does the man in the moon. Frist doesn't even really believe ID should be taught. As an educated man, he can't possibly think that teaching ID does anything good. This just ticks me off as it's nothing more than political pandering. I knew there was something about the guy I didn't like. I sensed a playdoh philosophy. I was right. Anyone that can't be consistent and that says what pleases whoever he's talking to can't be counted on for anything.

[NJ_gent]

"I'm opposed, as a teacher of science, to religious fundamentalists telling me what I or other teachers of science should teach in science class."

Ahh, but it's not just religious fundamentalists now is it?! It's also this guy and this guy!

[lugsoul]

"I would react the same way if astrology were taught alongside astronomy, because it's the same thing."

We have a winner.

[soupcon]

Everybody knows that Anansi created the first man, and that Nyame breathed life into him.

[Mylo]

Well lets see how the theory of Natural Selection conforms to the Scientific Method...

Darwin's theory of Evolution through natural selection made several assumptions; and many predictions can be made based upon the theory.

Darwin's assumptions were...

that the genetic material was passed on to descendent's without major change. (TRUE, and observed in the lab)

that there is genetic differences within a population. (Also true and observed)

That due to these differences some members of a species are more likely to pass on their genetics than others (also true and observed in the lab).

All these assumptions have held true despite Darwin's ignorance of DNA and mutation.

Many assumptions based upon this theory have also been borne out by MOUNTAINS of evidence.

The interrelatedness of species. (confirmed by DNA evidence and the fossil record)

Selective pressure can be brought to bear to change the genetic makeup of a population (true and observed in the lab).

[NJ_gent]

Bah! Second link was supposed to go here. That's what I get for not testing it. :-/

[soupcon]

Maybe Frist is living in a parable universe.

[My2Cents]

Go off and sulk. That's the spirit.

[Junior_G]

P.S. Science must be observable and repeatable.

Or, alternatively, science should be replaced with creation myths.

[taxesareforever]

Why are you folks so threatened by a discussion of the possibility of intelligent design?

You know I have wondered that myself. What does it hurt that people believe in ID? I am not offended by people who believe in evolution. That is their right to believe what they want. But evolutions get so upset when ID is even mentioned. They can't have a logical discussion because they think that a belief in ID takes their intellect into question. For ID believers to put ID against their intellect, well, whoa, can't be going there. They always have to have a human answer to situations, as if they are the ones with the only plausible answers. Something gets labeled as "scientific" and to them that is the end of the story. Questioning it otherwise would lead to knowledge from a higher source (scary to them) and to them they are the only source.

[soupcon]

In Job 5:7, we read, 'But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks fly upwards.' If gravity is pulling everything down, why do the sparks fly upwards with great surety? This clearly indicates that a conscious intelligence governs all falling.

Sweet.

[keithtoo]

You are a university professor right? What you will find once you dig a little is that most Intelligent Design advocates (I mean the advocates with advanced scientific degrees) became non-believers in Evolution AFTER they got to college, and many after they received advanced degrees in a hard science.

You can out-argue Marketing majors such as myself all day long, but you will ultimately have to out-argue other PHD Physicists.

[Right Wing Professor]

You can out-argue Marketing majors such as myself all day long, but you will ultimately have to out-argue other PHD Physicists.

Name one.

[Manic_Episode]

ping

[keithtoo]

Here are a few, and there are many more available with a Google search: http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=discover&action=index&page=discover_faculty

[daysailor]

"Good point. When has evolution ever conformed to the scientific method?"

Pretty much every single day for the last 150 years or so.

[lemura]

human abilities to explain these biological processes as biological processes are doomed to failure, AND, the only alternative explanation is to have a more intelligent force

Actually, ID isn't limited to biology; it can apply to any physical science. For example, ID in 1890 would have concluded that since flying is too complex, birds must have been created.

Alternatively, since we haven't yet been able to re-create certain elements such as diamonds, petroleum, gold, etc (without consuming more energy/material than the end result), ID also lends itself to concuding that, well, it's too darn complex, therefore it must have been created.

ID is better than a good household cleanser - it can be used in any number of ways to explain how things exist without gaining any real knowledge.

[Mylo]

Physicists have about as much to offer a discussion of Biology as I would offer a discussion of advanced Physics. An informed LAYMAN's opinion.

Besides, many of the "scientists" listed by the Discovery Institute have honorary degrees given to them by creationist organizations.