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Court rules atheism a religion
WorldNetDaily ^

Posted on 08/20/2005 12:11:11 AM PDT by Lexinom

A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate's rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

"Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being," the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: 7thcircuit; atheism; isthistheonion; religion; religionofatheism; ruling; truth; worldview
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This is huge and long overdue. Consistently applied, this could have sweeping ramifications for the.

There is no such thing as "neutrality", or non-religion. Atheism is indeed a religion or worldview. It is our unofficial state religion, in fact, if recent court rulings on the Ten Commandments, sodomy, and partial-birth abortion are any indication. It has gotten a free ride on the religion train for far too long.

1 posted on 08/20/2005 12:11:12 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom

Correction:

Consistently applied, this could have sweeping ramifications for future court decisions, sans utilitarian motives rooted in a desire to continue underwriting the sexual revolution of the 1960's.


2 posted on 08/20/2005 12:12:45 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom

If athiesm is a religion, does the banning of Christian and Jewish symbols (such as Nativity displays, the Menorah, and the Ten Commandments) from public places constitute an unconstitutional endorsement by the State of athiesm as a religion.


3 posted on 08/20/2005 12:17:17 AM PDT by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: peyton randolph

ouch ! good one...now what ACLU ?
In the courts eyes, nothing means something !
beam me up scottie.


4 posted on 08/20/2005 12:24:05 AM PDT by stylin19a (In golf, some are long, I'm "Lama Long")
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To: peyton randolph
unconstitutional endorsement by the State of athiesm as a religion

Yes, by jove I think you've hit the nail on the head...

5 posted on 08/20/2005 12:25:47 AM PDT by konaice
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Talk about your oxymorons.

IF Atheism is a religion;
Then dying of thirst is a big drink of water.
And starvation is three big meals a day.


6 posted on 08/20/2005 12:26:06 AM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: Carry_Okie

ping


7 posted on 08/20/2005 12:27:26 AM PDT by FOG724 (RINOS - they are not better than leftists, they ARE leftists.)
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To: Lexinom
Let me get this straight. The acknowledgment and worship of a higher power, a religion, is against the "doctrine" of the separation of church and state. Well then if atheism is now a "religion" then they are to be separated from the state as well. Humm, not a bad decision, can you say "level playing field"?
8 posted on 08/20/2005 12:31:46 AM PDT by timydnuc (I'll die on my feet before I'll live on my knees.)
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To: Lexinom

Ok, but is agnosticm a religion?


9 posted on 08/20/2005 12:36:32 AM PDT by ThinkDifferent (That's great. What?)
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To: Lexinom

Obviously the thing that would be nice to know is what is the court's definition of religion.


10 posted on 08/20/2005 12:53:24 AM PDT by OldEagle (May you live long enough to hear the legends of your own adventures.)
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To: peyton randolph
If athiesm is a religion, does the banning of Christian and Jewish symbols (such as Nativity displays, the Menorah, and the Ten Commandments) from public places constitute an unconstitutional endorsement by the State of athiesm as a religion.

Excellent point....

11 posted on 08/20/2005 12:57:10 AM PDT by ScreamingFist (Peace through Stupidity)
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To: ThinkDifferent

They're not sure.


12 posted on 08/20/2005 12:58:10 AM PDT by nickcarraway (I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
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To: peyton randolph

It is "Respecting an Establishment of Religion"..

That is, if these perverts in black dresses that
are calling themselves the 7th Court Appeals,
weren't completely devoid of morality and intellect.


13 posted on 08/20/2005 12:58:54 AM PDT by NickatNite2003
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: Lexinom
I'm confused; atheism (a-theos = without God) is a religion? Then there's Islam, a prejudiced and bloody cult of crazed tyrants, butchers and murderers that is also counted as a religion. This, inspite of it's malevolent creed that requires the conversion or overthrow of every religion in the world. Witchcraft is also called a 'religion', and the U.S. military is required to provide its adherents with 'witch chaplains'.

So anti-religion is now a religion, while true religion is adjudicated dangerous to the public and ordered to keep itself confined inside Church walls or inside the privacy of the home, where it can't offend the sensitivities of those other 'religions', atheism and Islam.

My brain hurts, I'm going to bed.

15 posted on 08/20/2005 1:11:59 AM PDT by TheCrusader ("The frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" -Pope Urban II, 1097AD)
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To: ThoreauHD

[As a Catholic, I respect agnostics moreso for their pure numerical logic. They will go either way with proof.]

I am not so sure. It has been my experience that agnostics are actually lazy atheists. They will not argue or even discuss the issue. Probably because they find their position full of holes.

Godspeed, The Dilg


16 posted on 08/20/2005 1:15:17 AM PDT by thedilg
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To: peyton randolph
Bingo, hole-in-one, bullseye. That is exactly the point I've been trying to make for years. Secular Humanism even has its own creeds (Humanist Manifesto I, Humanist Manifesto II).
17 posted on 08/20/2005 1:18:19 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: LegendHasIt

Stupidity is intelligence, Death is Life, and Freedom is Slavery.


18 posted on 08/20/2005 1:21:48 AM PDT by Schwaeky ("Truth is not determined by a majority vote" Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: TheCrusader

There's really no such thing as "atheism". All religions have someone at the top. Logically, for the atheist this is man (hence "humanism"), but psychologically, it is the real God, the Author of truth, of the moral standard common to all regardless of exposure to formal religion (e.g. "Thou shalt not murder"). It is this psychological knowledge that God really does exist that fuels their frantic passion against all things theistic. Think of a petulant child covering his eyes and saying "you don't exist and I hate you!"


19 posted on 08/20/2005 1:22:26 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom
Correction for clarity, though I stand by the original: All worldviews have someone at the top.
20 posted on 08/20/2005 1:24:46 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: peyton randolph
"...unconstitutional endorsement by the State of athiesm as a religion."

Yes, and using the same logic, environmentalism is also a religion, the endorsement of which is also unconstitutional.

21 posted on 08/20/2005 1:28:09 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: timydnuc
"doctrine" of separation of church and state.

Very nice catch; I missed that. See, they acknowledge truth and logic, neither of which are subject to emperical observation but rather antecedent. That alone disqualifies atheism, as they can offer no answer to these transcendental arguments other than to say "they just are". The Creator is the great "I AM". See it?

22 posted on 08/20/2005 1:30:50 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: nightdriver

Right! Earth-worship, Gaia-worship, etc.


23 posted on 08/20/2005 1:31:24 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Nevernow; CourtneyLeigh; hiredhand; cpforlife.org
A great big PING!
24 posted on 08/20/2005 1:33:46 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: ThinkDifferent
That's a difficult question, since a (without) gnostic (knowlege) means "don't know". Intuitively I've have to trace it to the praxis of the individual who embraces that. Do they live as though God exists, apart from the obvious use of the laws of logic and reliance on an orderly universe? The only acknowledged agnostic I knew had a very weak faith, and occasionally prayed the Lord's prayer having been raised Lutheran...

If they are teaching positive doctrine (part of a system of thought), rather than naysaying both theistic (God-centered) and humanistic (man-centered) religion, it would seem so. But to do that would undermine their whole premise.

25 posted on 08/20/2005 1:40:56 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom
Secular Humanism even has its own creeds

From the article:

The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described "secular humanism" as a religion


26 posted on 08/20/2005 1:43:18 AM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: LegendHasIt

Atheism is a belief, not an act. It is a faith of things unprovable. Ergo ; it is a faith, a religious view.


27 posted on 08/20/2005 1:44:51 AM PDT by Loud Mime (War is Mankind's way of ridding the world of the tyranny caused by liberalism)
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To: timydnuc

I have long held that any belief concerning the after-life is a religious belief.

The First Amendment is clear on this issue. Now the courts have paved the way for some sanity in these separation of church and state suits.


28 posted on 08/20/2005 1:46:51 AM PDT by Loud Mime (War is Mankind's way of ridding the world of the tyranny caused by liberalism)
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To: Loud Mime

Hmmm...I wonder what these slimy jackaassses
would say if someone said their religion was
called Judgehangery?

:o)


29 posted on 08/20/2005 1:51:10 AM PDT by NickatNite2003
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To: Racehorse
Yeah I read that. So it would seem that hope for change would be ill-placed, as that case has had little impact.

You know, probably, that the whole concept of separation has been perverted from its original intent, in which the state could not impose a state religion, like Anglicanism or Catholicism, nor forbid its free exercise. Nowhere did the founders give any indication that mere theism consitituted a religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . "

This has been bludgeoned into an unofficial state endorsement of secular humanism, a distinct worldview with man as the highest power. You and I are forced to fund the wide dissemination of its presuppositions whether we agree with them or not because, Toracaso v Watkins notwithstanding, it has managed to sneak under the "religion" radar. The current case is still cause for some optimism though.

30 posted on 08/20/2005 1:54:02 AM PDT by Lexinom
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To: Lexinom
If the courts start treating atheism and secular humanism as a religion, its going to be interesting to watch the ACLU switch grounds in arguing liberal philosophies need a place in the public square.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
31 posted on 08/20/2005 1:58:12 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: RightWingAtheist

Thought this might interest you.


32 posted on 08/20/2005 1:59:29 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: Lexinom

so if you worship nothing, no one, you have your own religion?


33 posted on 08/20/2005 1:59:50 AM PDT by Cougar66 (The only liberal movement is what's in their diapers. .)
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To: Lexinom
This has been bludgeoned into an unofficial state endorsement of secular humanism, a distinct worldview with man as the highest power.

Sad to say, I'm one of those who gave silent endorsement to the ascendancy of secular humanism.  Years ago I scoffed at what I believed were the semi-paranoid rants of some of my more zealously religious friends.  Sure looks like they were right.

My skepticism was based on the belief history, tradition and good sense would keep secular humanism checked at the level of tolerance and fairness.  Turns out, all those things were and are used against us.

I'm hopeful the tide has crested and is now receding.

34 posted on 08/20/2005 2:02:40 AM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: Loud Mime
There is no separation of the church in THIS state. It was founded under the belief in God. The irony is that the communists and leftists want so badly to bring this county down that they just shoot the wrong bird. They (leftists) are really not as formatable as we feared. They are idiots, pure and simple. Let them froth at the mouth and bite at the air, I could care less. They just lost this battle, beer for everyone!
35 posted on 08/20/2005 2:04:45 AM PDT by timydnuc (I'll die on my feet before I'll live on my knees.)
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To: peyton randolph

I think so. That is the religion they are trying to promote.


36 posted on 08/20/2005 2:10:38 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Lexinom

If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color.


37 posted on 08/20/2005 2:11:21 AM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Future Minnesota Refugee)
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To: Lexinom; Dawsonville_Doc; dyed_in_the_wool

About damned time.

While I have a great deal of sympathy for those who are quietly, personally atheistic (who say, simply, "I believe in no gods")... I have a great deal of antipathy for those who are loudly, abrasively, stridently, militantly Atheistic (who go well beyond reason to assert "There ARE no gods, and if you believe otherwise you are an idiot undeserving of a public voice").

These latter have made a mill of using the "I'm offended" card, churning out ludicrous suits and court rulings attacking the Christian foundation of this Republic, and in effect instituting the establishment of a State religion of Atheistic Secularism.

This new ruling may prove of use in ending these shenanigans.

About DAMNED time, too.


38 posted on 08/20/2005 2:12:41 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: King Prout
Interesting! Next is discovery of the discipline of the atheist.

I must admit I am surprised to see your title behind this declaration.
39 posted on 08/20/2005 2:17:06 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: TypeZoNegative

small-a "atheism" is no religion, being a personal statement of belief.

big-A "Atheism" - the declaration as fact that there are no gods - is well beyond what any rational or evidentiary/empirical process can support. In this wise, it passes from personal belief into the realm of DOGMATIC FAITH. That makes it a religion.


40 posted on 08/20/2005 2:17:11 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: timydnuc
"There is no separation of the church in THIS state."

Let's force everybody to live as a Non Sectarian Christian. Freedom is slavery!

"It was founded under the belief in God."

Which god? Yahweh? Allah? Marduk?

"The irony is that the communists and leftists want so badly to bring this county down that they just shoot the wrong bird."

Contrasting with the irony of claiming to have a free society yet discouraging all other forms of religion except Non-Sectarian Christianity

They (leftists) are really not as formatable as we feared. They are idiots, pure and simple. Let them froth at the mouth and bite at the air, I could care less. They just lost this battle, beer for everyone!

That's wishful thinking. What's shooting the left in the foot right now is that the mainstream of Atheists are ravenous anti-religious lunatics rather than tolerant, mainstream Americans. Take a cue.

41 posted on 08/20/2005 2:19:18 AM PDT by TypeZoNegative (Future Minnesota Refugee)
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To: Just mythoughts

your surprise is based on the assumptions you have made in the blindness of your bias, not upon anything you have read of my public commentary.

As I've stated, explicitly, many a time: I am no atheist, and in fact have come to believe in God.

Perhaps, now, you have cause to credit these statements?


42 posted on 08/20/2005 2:19:54 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: King Prout
That makes it a religion.

Sorry.  I did not understand that post.

Would you mind simplifying it for me?

I.e., in your view, what makes a religion?

43 posted on 08/20/2005 2:25:32 AM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: Racehorse

a belief system based upon dogmatic faith in completely unverifiable core tenets = religion


44 posted on 08/20/2005 2:28:07 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: King Prout

"Perhaps, now, you have cause to credit these statements?"


I have seen little in any of your posts to cause me to credit your belief in God. Actually this is the first time, of course I cannot claim to have actually read all your posts that would land me the accusation I was stalking you.

While you claim title of King Prout, I am a mere student of the WORD and that gives me discipline to take you on about evolution as the answer to human life.


45 posted on 08/20/2005 2:29:40 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

I cannot help it that you are so ill-read as to fail to know the provenance of my UserID


46 posted on 08/20/2005 2:30:58 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: King Prout
"I cannot help it that you are so ill-read as to fail to know the provenance of my UserID"


LOL, actually it was the high IQ that led me astray.
47 posted on 08/20/2005 2:33:14 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Lexinom
There is the "level playing field". Don't look on this as a defeat, it's a victory. Now they (the atheists) are a religion, just like us. Punch away
48 posted on 08/20/2005 2:35:08 AM PDT by timydnuc (I'll die on my feet before I'll live on my knees.)
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To: Just mythoughts

IQ and literacy do not equate.
try again

or, better, don't. this is neither the time nor the place for me to thrash you all over again.


49 posted on 08/20/2005 2:39:01 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: peyton randolph

I've thought that before.

The government should get out of the religion business altogether. Just let free speech flow and everything will work out.

It's a lot easier NOT to have to deal with all of those court cases and all of those twists and turns. Just let everyone speak out full and free and the government will save a lot of time and energy.

If folks don't realize there are lots of different religions out there, then simply tell them to grow up. If they don't realize there are some religions with more members than others, then tell them to grow up.


50 posted on 08/20/2005 2:39:20 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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