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Pleistocene Park? On the reintroduction of species
NewScientist.com ^ | 17 August 2005 | Kurt Kleiner

Posted on 08/20/2005 2:15:44 PM PDT by sociotard

Sorry if this is a repost.

Elephants and lions unleashed on North America?
18:00 17 August 2005
NewScientist.com news service
Kurt Kleiner

Elephants, lions, cheetahs and camels could one day roam the western US under a proposal to recreate North American landscapes as they existed more than 13,000 years ago, when humans first encountered them.

The plan, proposed in a commentary in Nature and co-authored by 13 ecologists and conservation biologists, would help enrich a North American ecosystem that was left almost devoid of large mammals at the end of the Pleistocene period. It would also help preserve wildlife that faces the threat of extinction in Africa and Asia.

Between 50,000 and 10,000 years ago, 97 of 150 genera of large mammals disappeared from around the world. Although a warming climate played its part, the consensus is that over-hunting by humans probably had a significant role.

In North America, by about 13,000 years ago, humans were leaving evidence of big-game hunting using sophisticated stone tools. This hunting probably helped to drive many animals to extinction, including North American mammoths and mastodons, lions, cheetahs, camelops (a relative of the modern camel), horses and asses.

50-year plan
Although those animals are gone forever, related African and Asian species could serve as proxies, the authors say. They propose introducing the animals over 50 years, starting with horses, asses and camels, working up to elephants, and finally bringing in the big cats.

Eventually, the animals could roam in preserves hundreds of thousands of hectares in size. The best place to create this “Pleistocene Park” would be in the North American Great Plains, where the human population is relatively low and the grazing animals would have a ready supply of food.

But other conservationists think it is a bad idea. Chris Haney, a conservation biologist at Defenders of Wildlife in Washington, DC, US, says that substituting modern equivalents of extinct species will not be the same as restoring the ancient ecosystem. And he thinks it would detract from more pressing and “realistic” goals, such as restoring wolves, grizzlies, elk and other animals to their historic North American ranges. Even those reintroductions have faced bitter opposition from ranchers, farmers, and residents.

"I need to work on wolves, not mastodons," agrees Douglas Inkley, senior science adviser to the National Wildlife Federation in Reston, Virginia, US.

Journal reference: Nature (vol 436, p 913)


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: camels; ecology; econuts; elephant; elephants; environmentalism; godsgravesglyphs; lion; lions; mammoth; mammoths; mammothtoldme; pleistocene; reintroduction; wolves
I don't like the idea of african lions on my continent. Look at how they drag people from their beds in Tanzania. Mountain lions don't do that (generally). Even with herbivors, look at how many people are killed or maimed by bison every year, not because the bison are out to get them, but because the tourists do stupid things to them, like try to ride them or shoo them into a better camera position. I don't think we're smart enough to live around elephants.

If they were to do this, I would hope they'd use another suggestion I heard, that of using genuine Pleistocene DNA, grafted (if necessary) onto their modern equivalents. It just seems more interesting.

1 posted on 08/20/2005 2:15:44 PM PDT by sociotard
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To: sociotard
13,000 years ago was during the Ice Age. The "lions" and "camels" that roamed North America were NOT the same as the ones in Africa and the Sahara now. How do they propose to recreate an ecology then disappeared 11,000 years ago when we don't even know how OURS works??

Now to the wildlife: for the "camels" grab some alpaca and llamas from South America. For "lions"...well, unless we manage to clone the sabre toothed cat with a strong enough gene pool for it not to become extinct again, we're just gonna have to be satisfied with mountain lions; though they're a different specie of cat, at least THEY'RE native.

Whoever came up with this idea needs to slow down on the late night drinking binges.

2 posted on 08/20/2005 2:27:13 PM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: "One Wing to Rule Them all and to the Dark Side Bind Them")
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To: sociotard

And we've ALREADY got horses, big cats, donkeys and the asses who come up with whacked like this one. Elephants...for Pete's sake.


3 posted on 08/20/2005 2:29:48 PM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: "One Wing to Rule Them all and to the Dark Side Bind Them")
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To: sociotard

YEC INTREP


4 posted on 08/20/2005 2:30:35 PM PDT by LiteKeeper (The radical secularization of America is happening)
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To: sociotard

I Wish science would make up its mind. First we hear about an obesity crisis in the U.S. then we get told, " The plan, would help enrich a North American ecosystem that was left almost devoid of large mammals at the end of the Pleistocene period."
Either they want large mammals or they don't. Now which would you rather have people wandering about looking for their next Big Mac or hungry lions?


5 posted on 08/20/2005 2:32:16 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: sociotard
On a related note:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3075381.stm
It talks about Japanese and Russian scientists trying to clone a mammoth.
6 posted on 08/20/2005 2:33:26 PM PDT by sociotard (I am the one true Sociotard)
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To: sociotard
... lions, cheetahs and camels could one day roam the western US under a proposal to recreate North American landscapes as they existed more than 13,000 years ago, when humans first encountered them...

Does this report imply Native Americans caused extinction of some animal species in N. America?! Oh the horror!

7 posted on 08/20/2005 2:35:50 PM PDT by 6SJ7
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To: LiteKeeper
Originally posted by LiteKeeper
YEC INTREP

? What does YEC INTREP mean?

8 posted on 08/20/2005 2:36:09 PM PDT by sociotard (I am the one true Sociotard)
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To: sociotard

Typical pointy-headed acedemics awash in hubris.

All other arguments aside, man cannot create a sustainable ecosystem. Just look at the repercussions of plants and animals that have been imported into various countries to control this or that pest. Huge failures that turn into Frankensteins.


9 posted on 08/20/2005 2:36:22 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s......you weren't really there.)
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To: sociotard

They've been trying to clone a mammoth for years. They're having trouble finding unbroken DNA.


10 posted on 08/20/2005 2:38:40 PM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: "One Wing to Rule Them all and to the Dark Side Bind Them")
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To: cake_crumb
Eventually, the animals could roam in preserves hundreds of thousands of hectares in size.

at least THEY'RE native.

We don't have any of them there hectares here in the US so you don't need to worry about them furaner critters.

11 posted on 08/20/2005 2:38:44 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Line the border with trebuchets. Provide the invaders free flights home.)
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To: 6SJ7

LOL! Native Americans are blamed for causing the extinction of the wolly mammoth in North America...when they're not being worshipped for their sensitivity to gaia.


12 posted on 08/20/2005 2:39:49 PM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: "One Wing to Rule Them all and to the Dark Side Bind Them")
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To: sociotard
Between 50,000 and 10,000 years ago, 97 of 150 genera of large mammals disappeared from around the world. Although a warming climate played its part, the consensus is that over-hunting by humans probably had a significant role.

This is backward. If anything, it was a cooling climate that played a part, specifically the Ice Age which concentrated the large animals near coastal areas preventing them from migrating away from the hunting pressure.

In fact, the ice age + over-hunting theory appeared right here on FR not that long ago:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1461424/posts
This, to me, suggests the author is trying to sneak in the global warming junk science into a story that really has nothing to do with warming.

As for the merrits of the introduction of these large anumals, every single instance of Man's tinkering around with introduction of outside species has brought disaster in one form or another. Witness the rabits to Australia, dogs and cats to New Zealand, Buffo frogs to Hawaii, etc.

Left unsaid is who's land they propose to take for their grand expiriment.

13 posted on 08/20/2005 2:45:45 PM PDT by konaice
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To: sociotard
It talks about Japanese and Russian scientists trying to clone a mammoth.

And I for one think that might be a cool idea. Not that I expect them to be viable, but just to see what they looked like and compare them to modern elephants.

The difference is there exists samples of flesh for these animals, as every once in a while one is pulled out of a glacier or the perma-frost somewhere reasonably intact.

14 posted on 08/20/2005 2:50:46 PM PDT by konaice
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To: sociotard

I think it is a great idea. It is best possible use for the State of Kansas!


15 posted on 08/20/2005 2:51:22 PM PDT by LPM1888 (What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? - Lazarus Long)
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To: ASA Vet
"We don't have any of them there hectares here in the US so you don't need to worry about them furaner critters."

ROFLOL!

16 posted on 08/20/2005 2:52:34 PM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: "One Wing to Rule Them all and to the Dark Side Bind Them")
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To: konaice

Heck, the author's trying to sneak global warming junk science into zoological and geological junk science, to at least he's consistant.


17 posted on 08/20/2005 2:54:48 PM PDT by cake_crumb (Leftist Credo: "One Wing to Rule Them all and to the Dark Side Bind Them")
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To: konaice
Witness the rabits to Australia

You'll notice that ya never see stories about Carter visiting Australia. Cause and effect!

18 posted on 08/20/2005 2:59:22 PM PDT by Socratic (Liberal's motto: Capio ergo sum.)
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To: lastchance

"Now which would you rather have people wandering about looking for their next Big Mac or hungry lions?"

Actually the latter is the answer to the former.


To thin out(no pun intended) the slowest and the fattest by introducing very hungry lions that will either eat them or make then run off the extra fries.

Then of course you have to decide what to do with fat lions.....LOL


19 posted on 08/20/2005 3:03:02 PM PDT by RedMonqey
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To: sociotard

Hasn't anyone seen Jurassic Park? I think it would be a bad move.


20 posted on 08/20/2005 3:05:23 PM PDT by Tempestuous
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To: sociotard
recreate North American landscapes

It would also help preserve wildlife that faces the threat of extinction in Africa and Asia

Doesn't both Asia and Afric have more land than North America? So, why not put the preserve in on one of those? [Answer: The envirwackos have no influence in Asia or Africa, and Europe is too crowded already.]
21 posted on 08/20/2005 3:07:57 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: sociotard
"Eventually, the animals could roam in preserves hundreds of thousands of hectares in size. The best place to create this “Pleistocene Park” would be in the North American Great Plains, where the human population is relatively low and the grazing animals would have a ready supply of food."

Uh, I think those "hundreds of thousands of hectares" still belong to people, despite the fact that the "human population is relatively low".

Now we know the REAL reason behind the Supreme Court's "eminent domain" decision.

22 posted on 08/20/2005 3:51:28 PM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: RedMonqey

Dont cha love the way nature works in harmony to benefit all God's creatures? lol


23 posted on 08/20/2005 6:58:24 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: sociotard
Still, a 100 mile wide big game corridor from San Diego to Corpus Christi has a certain appeal...
24 posted on 08/20/2005 7:00:55 PM PDT by null and void (Be vewwy vewwy qwiet, we're hunting wahabbits...)
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To: sociotard

Have you noticed that anything that scientists cannot explain is said to be the doing of man, provided man was around at that time?


25 posted on 08/21/2005 6:43:55 AM PDT by Christopher Lincoln
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To: sociotard
The best place to create this “Pleistocene Park” would be in the North American Great Plains,

I think this is an excellent idea -- although the perfect spot would be northern Long Island. Eastern Massachusetts wouldn't be bad either. Or maybe Connecticut.

26 posted on 08/21/2005 6:49:24 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: sociotard
They propose introducing the animals over 50 years, starting with horses, asses and camels, working up to elephants, and finally bringing in the big cats.

As far as horses and asses are concerned, they're about five centuries late. As for camels, the llama is probably closer to anything that lived in Pleistocene America than the camels of the Old World.

27 posted on 08/21/2005 6:59:07 AM PDT by Christopher Lincoln
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alas...

Call to restock North America’s large mammals (Lions, Tigers,Bears Alert)
NewScientist.com | 18:00 17 August 2005 | Kurt Kleiner
Posted on 08/17/2005 1:56:34 PM EDT by 11th_VA
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1465229/posts


28 posted on 08/14/2006 9:52:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Just adding this to the GGG catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

29 posted on 08/14/2006 10:03:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: sociotard

Could happen after the muzzies nuke most large american cities and blow up other malls, bridges and dams.... Unless Americans finally get busy.. Could happen..


30 posted on 08/14/2006 10:09:17 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole.)
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31 posted on 11/01/2013 12:00:54 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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