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A Citizen's Suggestions (to a Reluctant Government) to Stem The Crisis of Illegal Immigration
self | 08/21/05 | joanie-f

Posted on 08/20/2005 10:52:05 PM PDT by joanie-f

Something happened in Boston in the winter of 1773 that served as evidence that the final straw had been laid on the camel’s back … and the spark for a revolution against tyranny and aristocracy was ignited.

What happened in Boston spread, and other colonial seaports defiantly followed the example set by Sam Adams (‘It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds’). When the news spread of what Sam Adams and a handful of Boston patriots had done, other seaports all down the Atlantic coastline followed the example and staged similar acts of defiance of their own.

Of all of the signers of our Declaration of Independence, Sam Adams probably best embodies those character traits found in colonial American patriots. He was an eloquent man, determined to keep himself informed regarding the abuses of power that continued to be heaped upon the colonies, and, in addition to sharing his insight and stirring eloquence, he was not afraid to act when it appeared that words would no longer suffice.

In spite of the education garnered, and knowledge shared, on this forum, I believe that most adult Americans could not even tell you who Sam Adams was. And, of those who are aware of his role in the revolution … and beyond … I believe most know him through his most famous declaration, ‘If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen’.

Powerful words indeed … and perhaps more powerful now than then.

But another of Adams’ statements may even prove to be more pertinent and providential in America 2005:

Among the natural rights of the colonists are there: First a right to life, second to liberty, and thirdly to property. Together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can.

Life, liberty and property were the three sanctified entities that our Founders sought, and sacrifice beyond our comprehension, to guarantee each and every American – not only their eighteenth century contemporaries, but every one of us who has followed in their footsteps.

Yet during our lifetimes alone, there have been countless examples of government gone awry that have represented a direct and destructive assault upon the sanctity of those three God-given human rights that our Founders sought to ensure for us. The government-sponsored murders at Waco, the Supreme Court decision in Roe vs. Wade, the passage of the McCain-Feingold assault on the First Amendment, the court-ordered murder of Terri Schiavo, and the government land grab upheld two months ago in Kelo vs. New London come to mind. And in between each of those travesties, there occurred dozens more.

What happened in Douglas, Arizona this week deserves to be added to the growing list of what our Founders would have called ‘grievances against the King’.

In America 2005, we are experiencing a growing arrogance on the part of government at all levels … represented by the passing of liberty-restrictive laws and by judicial rulings that all but declare the Constitution a nuisance, and the American citizen a slave of the state.

But not only is government pro-actively trampling on our three most precious God-given rights, it is also accomplishing the same result by simply refusing to defend them when their sanctity is threatened by outsiders.

The illegal immigration travesty is the prime example of death through neglect.. We are pro-actively fighting a ‘war on terrorism’ six thousand miles from our shore, and yet an onslaught that is threatening to destroy us, both physically and economically, and that also affords terrorists the ability to find a home and a breeding ground from which to proselytize on our own soil, and in our own neighborhoods, is being allowed to continue unabated. Government efforts to stop illegal immigration have been half-hearted, at best – and entirely unsuccessful.

Alexander Hamilton (and Washington and Jefferson as well) vehemently opposed granting immediate citizenship to new immigrants, writing, ‘To admit foreigners indiscriminately to the rights of citizens, the moment they foot in our country, would be nothing less than to admit the Grecian horse into the citadel of our liberty and sovereignty.’ And he repeatedly warned against allowing masses of immigrants to cross our borders, because he believed that our safety and sovereignty would be threatened by such ‘reckless policy’.

The Founders’ concerns were focused on the deadly threats to our republic represented by failing to limit legal immigration. It’s difficult to imagine what they would think of laws and court rulings that hold the American citizen/taxpayer hostage to the ‘rights’ of illegal immigrants. The fact that the American legal/judicial system would go so far as to seize the property of an American citizen and lawfully convey it to an illegal immigrant would surely be beyond their ability to comprehend, let alone condone.

The dollar cost of illegal immigration is rising exponentially, and consists of (among other considerations), the cost to the American taxpayer of:



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: aliens; arizona; bordersecurity; borderwall; california; citizensrights; constitution; courts; economics; founders; illegals; immigration; justice; law; mexico; newmexico; texas
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Apologies for any duplicate pings. On the suggestion of several fellow FReepers I am posting this as a thread of its own, after having posted it on another thread.

And thanks to several fellow FReepers (especially ForGod'sSake, squantos and tet68) for a correction and especially kind comments on the original post. :)

1 posted on 08/20/2005 10:52:07 PM PDT by joanie-f
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To: joanie-f

OK, works for me.


2 posted on 08/20/2005 10:56:42 PM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: joanie-f

You can duplicate ping me anytime. I might miss something good otherwise.


3 posted on 08/20/2005 10:57:56 PM PDT by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: joanie-f

Sounds like a plan. And since it is a workable plan you can rest assured that it'll never be accepted or approved of by the PTB in DC.


4 posted on 08/20/2005 11:01:26 PM PDT by philman_36
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To: ForGod'sSake; tet68; Squantos; Jeff Head; radar101; The SISU kid; andyk; JudgemAll; rbg81; ...

Apologies for any duplicate pings. On the suggestion of several fellow FReepers I am posting this as a thread of its own, after having posted it on another thread.

And thanks to several fellow FReepers (especially ForGod'sSake, squantos and tet68) for a correction and especially kind comments on the original post. :)


5 posted on 08/20/2005 11:15:42 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f; Happy2BMe; HiJinx; gubamyster
This is the even less expensive type of fence system on the Israel-Syria border. A multiple fence system with a plowed and furrowed area is extremely effective. Anyone who cuts the fence sets off alarms, and clear footprints are left in the furrowed area. An effective fence system such as this one would allow the Border Patrol to stop 99% of the current cross border invasion.

But that's exactly why our so-called leaders will not build such a simple and effective fence system. It would work, and would run counter to their goal of integrating the USA into the "North American Union," with one common border.


U.S. Constitution Article 4 Section 4:

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

and shall protect each of them against Invasion;"


Invasion: \In*va"sion\, n. [L. invasio: cf. F. invasion. See Invade.] [1913 Webster]

1. The act of invading; the act of encroaching upon the rights or possessions of another; encroachment; trespass.


6 posted on 08/20/2005 11:21:51 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee
This is the even less expensive type of fence system on the Israel-Syria border. A multiple fence system with a plowed and furrowed area is extremely effective. Anyone who cuts the fence sets off alarms, and clear footprints are left in the furrowed area. An effective fence system such as this one would allow the Border Patrol to stop 99% of the current cross border invasion.

Interesting. I read a story today that said to build a fence, per mile it would cost 1.7 mil. You can see how quickly that would build up, I think the total was 3.3 bil. If we built a fence like you describe and had sufficient manpower, things would be much cheaper. One has to realize that common sense doesn't exist in washington.
7 posted on 08/20/2005 11:30:07 PM PDT by Stellar Dendrite ( Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. -Churchill)
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To: Stellar Dendrite
One has to realize that common sense doesn't exist in washington.

One has to realize that the Bush family is intent on making half-Mexican George P. Bush (W's nephew) the Governor of Texas. The border will stay open through '08...and may be the issue that puts the Hildabeast into the Oval Office.

8 posted on 08/20/2005 11:37:02 PM PDT by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: Stellar Dendrite; Travis McGee; joanie-f; philman_36
One has to realize that common sense doesn't exist in washington.

You all know that I agree with you...

Crosslinked:

For "Thunder on the Border," click the picture:


9 posted on 08/20/2005 11:38:52 PM PDT by backhoe (Just an Undocumented Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the Sunset...)
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To: vrwc0915; calex59; DaiHuy; JohnHuang2; Euroam; sasafras; hosepipe; Bird Jenkins; KenmcG414; ...
Apologies for any duplicate pings. On the suggestion of several fellow FReepers I am posting this as a thread of its own, after having posted it on another thread.

And thanks to several fellow FReepers (especially ForGod'sSake, squantos and tet68) for a correction and especially kind comments on the original post. :)

10 posted on 08/20/2005 11:42:58 PM PDT by joanie-f (If you believe God is your co-pilot, it might be time to switch seats ...)
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To: joanie-f
Another BTTT! for an terrific post!
11 posted on 08/20/2005 11:46:36 PM PDT by downwithsocialism
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To: Stellar Dendrite

The cost of such a fence is what we spend on illegal aliens every month in prisons, education, medical care etc.


12 posted on 08/20/2005 11:50:35 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: joanie-f
" We are pro-actively fighting a ‘war on terrorism’ six thousand miles from our shore, and yet an onslaught that is threatening to destroy us, both physically and economically, and that also affords terrorists the ability to find a home and a breeding ground from which to proselytize on our own soil, and in our own neighborhoods, is being allowed to continue unabated"

It truly does boggle the mind. After 9/11 all immigration from 25 or 26 Muslim countries should have been halted, all non-citizens from those countries returned to their homelands and the borders secured. It's been done in the past. Unfortunately, the fear of being labeled a racist or unfair to a particular group of people by liberal America is stronger than the fear of terrorist bombings by Muslim immigrants legal or illegal. Incredibly, I see more burkas (and I see them often) now then before 9/11 (when I encountered NONE).

Excellent article, joanie, and well written!

13 posted on 08/20/2005 11:59:53 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Member since December 1998)
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To: joanie-f

BTW, if your facts are correct, your idea sounds perfectly workable to me.


14 posted on 08/21/2005 12:04:49 AM PDT by TAdams8591 (Member since December 1998)
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To: joanie-f
And I also believe that the financial cost of such a common sense solution would be nowhere near as prohibitive as the financial cost of continuing to support (and now actually cater to, at the cost of our own freedoms) non-citizens who have committed a crime simply by being here in the first place.

I agree 100%. It is estimated that illegal aliens here in CA cost us 10 billion dollars every year. We must all demand action from our congressional "leaders" who are traitors to America, and if they won't take action, vote them out next year.

15 posted on 08/21/2005 12:17:29 AM PDT by janetgreen
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To: joanie-f

I wanted to make sure you didn't miss this post from over on the other thread. He makes some great points:

To: joanie-f

Tremendous! Well said! And I agree fully!
An investment less than the annual cost of the problem which would alleviate the problem makes good sense. Even though I get images of the Berlin Wall, we do need to do something, and in contrast to that series of structures, this is not to keep people in, but to keep them out.

If enogh Mexicans (and others) were to be forced to remain in Mexico (and elsewhere), perhaps they would change the government which oppresses them, instead of coming here illegally and subverting ours.

Unfortunately, as those of us who work in the oil industry get our first real raises in a decade, people wail and gnash their teeth over the cost of fuel.

I am no defeatist, but the outcry over the increase in cost of goods and services in the niches filled by illegals would probably be greater than the outcry over the the current illegal immigrant problem.

By and large, Americans have become a self-centered and short-sighted lot.

Sadly, there are few of Sam Adams' fervor present in our modern society; people are too caught up in the acquisition of immaterial material wealth to pay attention to their own families, much less the dangers to our Liberty.

I would wager that even many of the members of Congress, themselves, in some way benefit, whether it be the gardener, housekeeper, or the guy who cleans the pool, directly or indirectly, by the presence of illegal immigrants in the labor force.

That is bad enough, but the theft of Nethercott's Ranch is being done, not just as a "damage" award to the "victims", but a way of definitively punishing someone who has been an outspoken thorn in the side of official agencies on this issue for some time. If Nethercott's ranch forfieture is intended as an 'object lesson' to those who would "take the law into their own hands", I fear that turf battle has only just begun.

Sadly, the man has been roundly demonized in the media, deservedly or not, and will garner little sympathy from those who refuse to see the greater issue at hand. DOubtless, that is no accident.

For starters, we need protection against the award of damages to someone who is injured in the commission of a criminal act by someone seeking to halt or hinder that act, not just to protect landowners in the border areas, but any and every citizen who choses to defend themselves, their property, or their family against criminals.

The ramifications of this would be broad indeed, as it would ensure that the average citizen can uphold the law using reasonable (including lethal) force without fear of civil recrimination by those allegedly injured doing their particular criminal act.

(In this instance, the lesson is that Nethercott would have been better off taking his chances and burying these people, rather than giving them water and a blanket.)

I can not understand why such liability protection is so freely tendered to those who act in an official capacity, but generally withheld from the average person. There is no 'equal protection' under these laws eliminating liability for officials only, which may be a Constitutional issue in and of itself.

As for securing the border, this is one of the Constitutional empowerments of the Federal Government, unfortunately abdicated by the Congress in the aim of securing votes from the numerically increasing and increasingly anti-American groups which espouse thwarting that objective.

Even in the face of the threat (and in some instances, the reality--MS 13 comes to mind) of terrorists infiltrating our nation through the highly permeable arrangement on our borders, these legislators lack the intestinal fortitude to uphold this mandate from the very document they are sworn to protect and defend, the very essence of our government.

For now, the battle is primarily within the system. There are credible attempts to sieze the property of judges who voted for Kelo, which I hope succeed, or at least come close enough to cause the Court to reconsider and overturn the decision. There is an outcry over the City of New London attempting to charge back rent to those whose property they have siezed, a real abombination, and again, a punitive measure, undertaken through the courts, with no doubt the objective of establishing precedent which is intended to intimidate any who would resist such property siezures.

These acts are not only in violation of the spirit of the Constitution, they are arguably criminal racketeering.

I cannot be convinced that those who have pushed these actions to sieze property and redistribute it to other private entities "for the purpose of increasing tax revenues" do not stand to receive some personal gain, whether through increasing the funding for their tenure in their present position through "contributions" or more directly.

Were this 1773, they would likely be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.


153 posted on 08/21/2005 2:32:45 AM EDT by Smokin' Joe (God save us from the fury of the do-gooders!)


16 posted on 08/21/2005 12:39:15 AM PDT by downwithsocialism
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To: joanie-f
The personnel requirements are in the 6.5 person range to staff outposts 24/7/365 (gotta give them vacation, sick leave time, etc.).

Several options could lessen the cost--a double-fenced barrier and landmines, or windmills to produce enough juice to electrify the fence...

17 posted on 08/21/2005 12:53:24 AM PDT by Skybird
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To: joanie-f
I would have one suggestion, that is if we stationed the guards 1/2 mile apart that they are well armed and have vehicles that were adapted to the situation. I would also suggest that two men work each guard station. Thanks for the ping and no apology necessary.
18 posted on 08/21/2005 1:05:20 AM PDT by calex59 (If you have to take me apart to get me there, then I don't want to go!)
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To: joanie-f
Yes, go ahead do the math and work out your caculations for border patrol stations every half mile. Draw up a budget.

I guess you don't realize how quixotic and out of step with 2005 America that line of thinking is. Hence your frustration.

Maybe I can help...

Are we more ‘tolerant’ of the tyranny of government than Sam Adams and his fellow patriots were? Are we more of a mindset that we will not take action until the abuse occurs in our own backyard? Are we more willing to wear the chains to which Adams referred, because we love the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom?

In three words, yes, yes, and yes. Blame it on affluence. Which in turn breeds decadence. 18th century Americans led short, brutal lives for the most part. They simply couldn't afford to be generous with any trespassers.

But there's more to it than that. The original post is eloquent but doesn't cut to the chase.

Were this 1773, they would likely be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

But it's not 1773. Let's connect the dots:

America's elites are now de-racinated, de-culturalized and de-nationalized...which is largely in line with the public's state of mind. In this climate the main border concern is economic. And the only reason to "secure" a border is to deter crime. Yet we know that democracies are reactive and not proactive when it comes to crime. Therefore the border will only be secured after a great crime is committed that can be traced back to an unsecured border: Detonation of a nuke etc. The felonies committed by individual illegals on U.S. soil obviously don't count. They have been occurring for decades. We are affluent enough to be able to afford such nuisances.

The frustration seems authentic, but I wonder if most here aren't in line with modern American attitudes about immigration and borders at the end of the day. There are tons of "conservatives" out there who desire secure borders, but at the same time they reflexively embrace foreign peoples and cultures as exotic equals. You can't have it both ways.

Ask yourself: Who among our political elite - of any persuasion - is willing to stand up and say that Mexican culture is a backward culture? That it is inferior to our own? Let alone the other barbarous locales around the world. Think about it. Who will compare and contrast?

The reason even a non-violent Mexican invasion was never tolerated in the past was psychological - and not the result of police work or border vigilance. The American public was until circa 1965 unafraid of asserting its superiority as a people, a culture, a nation.

Let me say that again loudly:

The American public was unafraid of asserting its superiority.

There. Did I make you wince? To all the "conservatives" on this website: If you winced that means you're not a conservative but a multicultural drone i.e. a marxist.

The fact is a nation's borders are as much a psychological border as physical. Any body politic that has adopted tolerance of the "other" and pursuit of the almight dollar as greater virtues than preserving one's own way of life is destined to stop enforcing their own borders.

So, OK, let's all wait patiently for the nationalist revolution. But it didn't ever happen in California, did it?

19 posted on 08/21/2005 2:32:13 AM PDT by XpandTheEkonomy
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To: joanie-f
problem, reaction, solution.
the government has zero interest in enforcing our borders. they'll continue to allow this crap till people are beating down their representives doors screaming for National ID, random checkpoints/searches and the like. it's not some conspiracy theory, it's observable fact.
20 posted on 08/21/2005 2:50:53 AM PDT by tomakaze (Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum.)
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To: joanie-f

BTT!!!!!!


21 posted on 08/21/2005 3:00:43 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: joanie-f
...(‘It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds’)

If you have doubts about this, look at the Fags...


22 posted on 08/21/2005 3:12:59 AM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: freepatriot32; Seadog Bytes; calcowgirl

ping


23 posted on 08/21/2005 3:19:37 AM PDT by FOG724 (RINOS - they are not better than leftists, they ARE leftists.)
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To: Travis McGee

do me a solid: if you find a good one on this topic, please ping me.

thanks


24 posted on 08/21/2005 3:23:35 AM PDT by King Prout (and the Clinton Legacy continues: like Herpes, it is a gift that keeps on giving.)
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To: joanie-f

Excellent. Thoughtful analysis of the whole nasty mess.


25 posted on 08/21/2005 3:25:13 AM PDT by hershey
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To: joanie-f

You are simply asking too much - it's logical, workable, and just plane makes sense - any one of these traits make them unlikely to ever happend.....the combination?


26 posted on 08/21/2005 4:31:04 AM PDT by TheBattman (Islam (and liberalism)- the cult of Satan)
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To: tomakaze

Totally agree with you. To get your agenda passed, create the right situation that will have the folks begging you to fix the problem that you have created!

Go to www.cfr.org, the Americas, Publications: Creating a North American Community.

It seems to me that our "dear leaders" have become corrupt!

How can we take the WOT seriously when the Gov ignores the VERY OBIOUS Terror threat on the sourthern border?


27 posted on 08/21/2005 4:39:16 AM PDT by PaRebel (The Constitution has no off-switch. Repeal the 17th amendment.)
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To: joanie-f
Good analysis.

Although it would be easy to pick apart some of your logistical details, that would do a disservice to the concept. What matters is something can and should be done. The details can be worked out with some more thought.

We have been guarding national borders of other countries for decades. It is a stretch to assume we don't have either the technology, ability or manpower to do the same for our own, particularly when we are being invaded by unarmed (for the most part) swarms of illegal aliens who are eating out our substance like locusts and disobeying our laws en masse.

28 posted on 08/21/2005 5:21:39 AM PDT by Gritty ("A lot more mothers will be grieving if our military policy is: No one gets hurt!" - Ann Coulter)
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To: Stellar Dendrite
If we built a fence like you describe and had sufficient manpower, things would be much cheaper. One has to realize that common sense doesn't exist in washington.

Most of the creatures that inhabit Washington can't do the kind of simple math required to determine the difference in cost, as the author of this piece has done. Especially the Democrats.

29 posted on 08/21/2005 5:26:48 AM PDT by Hardastarboard
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To: joanie-f

Good post. However, the pols would rather pounce on us than stem the tide of illegal invasion.


30 posted on 08/21/2005 5:28:11 AM PDT by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton, Jr.)
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To: TAdams8591

100%. I have lost ALL faith the GWB ever had any intentions to do anything about this. In fact, it seems to me at least that 9/11 was a unfortunate event for him because it halted his immigration plans which he had in mind from day one.


31 posted on 08/21/2005 5:30:27 AM PDT by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton, Jr.)
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To: downwithsocialism

Sadly, there are few of Sam Adams' fervor present in our modern society; people are too caught up in the acquisition of immaterial material wealth to pay attention to their own families, much less the dangers to our Liberty."

God forbid you say anything about peoples' materialism on FR. Your called a socialist and class envy guy. Its a joke. They can't see the forest through the trees of what is going on.


32 posted on 08/21/2005 5:32:24 AM PDT by chris1 ("Make the other guy die for his country" - George S. Patton, Jr.)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: joanie-f

I find your comments very enlightening. I especially liked the following example: Providing ‘benefits’ to those illegal immigrants who are hired by American businesses looking to make a quick, illegal buck, but who provide no healthcare – thus causing their illegal employees to obtain ‘free’ (on the backs of the taxpayer) healthcare (thanks to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985).
That the average American citizen does not easily comprehend the truth of that statement is one of the chief reasons our Nation is in the state of decline it is in today. Keep up the good fight!


34 posted on 08/21/2005 6:00:35 AM PDT by Focused Fury
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To: joanie-f; Borax Queen

thanks very much for the ping...bookmarking.

BQ, I assume you've been pinged.


35 posted on 08/21/2005 6:29:03 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: joanie-f

Your cost analysis is right on IF DONE BY PRIVATE ENTERPRISE but when you factor in the government the cost would be at least 4 times that but still cheaper than what the illeglas are costing us today.

I might add that the current border patrol personel should be re deployed to seek out, arrest, and fine the businesses and individuals that hire the illegals and deport the illegals purging the nation of the disease that is killing us.


36 posted on 08/21/2005 6:42:20 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: joanie-f; Stellar Dendrite
Not a problem for such a well-thought post to be repeated...because these facts NEED to be screamed from the highest points in America!...

Allow me to repost my previous reply to you then...

"An excellent analysis, and well said.

The cost recovery alone in the first 5 years, due to the decreased burden on the State/Fed tax system by SEVERELY curtailing, if not outright eliminating the Illegal Infiltrator problem MORE than offeset the start-up costs, and as the wall will not need 8 Billion/Year EVERY year, as it will then be a fixed cost...I rough estimate with your provided figures that within 3.5 to 4 years, The Wall, security, and all associated costs will be paid in full by the savings from reduced/eliminated burden!

Then, we can wall off Canada...after offering the Westen Provinces the opportunity to join the US first!

My next suggestion is doing what was done in "Escape From New York"...turn Manhattan into a LIEberal enclave(hell, it already IS), wall it up and mine/cut the bridges and tunnels, and just toss the bastards in as they surface in the rest of America, to fend for themselves and not screw it up for the REAL America anymore! You want to live in a Marxist Utopia...here's your entry pass...good luck!

I can see Krintong and Shrillary as the "Duke and Dutchess of NY...they're A #1!"...I know...a fantasy, but I can dream, can't I?

Back to reality...your final thought is correct, but not far enough along... I predict that we are 12/18 MONTHS from B.I.T.S. ... and that timeframe is shrinking exponentially with EVERY Kelo/AZ decision that comes along, as our "Leaders" dither and show just how meaningless and out-of-touch they are!

I predict that we should invest in comanies that produce things like rope...ammo/arms...feathers...tar....because the past will happen again, and sooner than the Perfumed Princes of Power think.

37 posted on 08/21/2005 6:52:24 AM PDT by Itzlzha ("The avalanche has already started...it is too late for the pebbles to vote")
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To: joanie-f; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3rdcanyon; 4.1O dana super trac pak; ...
Joanie, thank you so very much for posting your suggestion. Those folks who don't have the patience to read to the end can do so here:

I can’t help but wonder when we citizens of America 2005 will declare that the last straw has been placed on the camel’s back. Are we more ‘tolerant’ of the tyranny of government than Sam Adams and his fellow patriots were? Are we more of a mindset that we will not take action until the abuse occurs in our own backyard? Are we more willing to wear the chains to which Adams referred, because we love the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom?

Back in 1999, Claire Wolfe observed in her book, ‘ 101 Things To Do ‘Til The Revolution’:

‘America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. '

Considering the atrocities (both by neglect and by overt action) committed by our government in the six years since Claire penned that thought, I can’t help but wonder whether we have been pushed significantly closer to the revolution she envisioned in those last three words.

38 posted on 08/21/2005 6:54:01 AM PDT by HiJinx (~ www.ProudPatriots.org ~ Serving Those Who Serve Us ~ Operation Semper Fi ~)
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To: joanie-f

"I can’t help but wonder when we citizens of America 2005 will declare that the last straw has been placed on the camel’s back. "

The last straw is there.

We have a government which, far from asserting its responsibility to protect its citizens from foreign invaders, acctually advocates and implements a deliberate policy of assisting those very invaders.

A governmnet which steals the property of citizens attempting to defend their borders against these invaders.

A government which aids and abets these invaders by foisting a mandated, deliberate policy of bilingualism on the nation compelling native born Americans to deal with a foreign tongue every day - in government documents, in advertisements, in business communications.

A government which sanctions and mandates the medical and social support of these invaders by stealing money from the pockets of American citizens.

A government which makes a mockery of its own immigration laws and those law-abiding individuals who wait and pay to immigrate here legally.

An Attorney General who, to all intents and purposes, is sympathetic to, and assists these invaders instead of taking the strong actions needed to stop them.

A President who ignores a blatant act of war by a neighboring nation which has actually mobilized its military below our borders to assist and abet these invaders.

All of this at a very time when our nation is under constant threat of infiltration and attack by fanatic foreigners bent on suicidal destruction of American civilians.

The system is broken.

Unless there is a loud concerted scream of rage, anger and resentment expressed by Americans who refuse to tolerate this obscenity any longer, we will very shortly have no nation left to protect.


39 posted on 08/21/2005 7:12:00 AM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: joanie-f
Excellent thoughts! Thanks for making them available.

You are being far too generous when you say, "Government efforts to stop illegal immigration have been half-hearted, at best – and entirely unsuccessful."

May as well state it outright, government has welcomed ILLEGAL immigration by making it clear that immigration laws will NOT be enforced.

(Since 9/11 some national security sites have been raided for ILLEGAL immigrants. A couple of chicken processing places in Arkansas have been raided also, who knows why. Wal-Mart (also of Arkansas) got nailed. Hmmm. There I've named all the enforcement to date since 1986, I believe.)

You suggest that "My entire purpose in creating this hypothetical example [of the wall, etc.] is to suggest simply that I believe there is a fundamental, nuts-and-bolts solution to the crisis"

IMO the DLC New Democrat Third Way progressives and the mainline Republicans are the obstacles. Our anointed ones. Both count Mexicorruption's criminal ruling class among their friends. Both stridently support migrant labor. The former for ideological reasons (remittances are key to helping redistribute wealth to the developing nations) and the latter for government-subsidized "cheap" labor.

(The exact same forces are at work vis-a-vis the free tradin' transfers of technology, wealth, and jobs to developing nations; to wit, redistribution of wealth and "cheap" labor.)

Only another Sam Adams and friends can solve that problem. The revolution this time can be "peaceful" via a new political party. The Minutemen are forming one, I believe.

40 posted on 08/21/2005 7:37:10 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Hillary is the she in shenanigans.)
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To: XpandTheEkonomy
Superb!

Like listening to classical music -- or reading something Thomas Sowell wrote.

41 posted on 08/21/2005 7:49:03 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Hillary is the she in shenanigans.)
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To: joanie-f
The evidence is overwhelming; the excuses why we haven't secured our borders are weak. More than any reason as to how we got in this situation it is political pandering to Mexico and to the liberal ideology that has held this country hostage for decades from political correctness to Affirmative Action that rose in the 1960's out of what was perceived as white guilt for the doings of previous generations of Americans who did it legally according to the laws of that time, ever since then it has been kind of a pay back, pay the piper kind of deal in the eyes of minorities and it has no end until unless whites become the minority and the excuse runs dry.

It is also the pandering going on from both parties seeking future political power derived from new Spanish votes instead of the votes from legal Americans. To believe that only whites would have belittled minorities at some point in our history or the history of any nation is naive, once again those who have power abuse it. More blacks have been enslaved by Arabs than anyone and they are doing it today, blacks enslave blacks in Africa too and to this day know one says a word about it. The reconciliation has already been made yet the hands are still out demanding more free handouts from the pockets of today’s tax payers and businesses and it must stop.

The drive continues by minority political activists who terrorize businesses demanding compensation for blacks and deposit the money in their own pockets for slavery of black ancestors from Americans today who haven't a clue if their ancestors owned slaves or if they were even in the country at that time.

The border problem is caused by the will of the government to turn a blind eye on businesses that hire illegals to keep costs low and compete with other companies who also hire illegals and the lack of will to say no to a minority group such as Mexicans because we have been told for decades we are oppressors and Mexicans are just innocent people crossing out border for work while conveniently leaving out the murders, rapes, gangs like MS-13 that terrorize out street and our citizens, our hospitals are closing from the flood of illegals with no medical insurance, our jails over crowded with criminals, etc. all of these thing bare an undue burden on the American tax payer and our safety.

The things I have mentioned are all connected by political correctness created by the left just as the antiwar activists carry the same flag of protesters from the 1960's about Vietnam, nothing has changed in 30 or 40 years in the eyes of the left and the right has bowed to the pressure and sacrificed our security and our culture as a free nation that everyone is equal. Today whites are less equal in the job market, or when a crime is committed the term "hate crime" is directed almost exclusively at whites, we carry the burden of Welfare for minorities, we are told that we can't change a social security plan that is nothing more than a house of cards because they want to continue distributing the earned wealth of Americans to everyone including those who don't deserve it because they don't contribute and that is socialism. Racial slurs once used incorrectly by whites are flung at minorities by minorities everyday with not even a blink of the eye, why is that better and why is it allowed. In Mumford, Texas white students were denied the right by school officials to attend another school based purely on the color of their skin, and it was stated openly by school officials and that is another example as to how favoring anyone or denying anyone based on the color of their skin is wrong. Allowing anyone to breach our borders because of the color of their skin or race, etc. in clear violation of our laws must be stopped. Know one should receive any preferential treatment based on color or race.

The reason the border is an issue today is because we are getting sick and tired of the reverse bias and finally we are standing up to it. Now the border is an issue to be taken seriously by politicians who must bite the bullet of political correctness that has many branches and talk about it in the coming political cycles.

The Democrats have come out of the gate first on the border problem and that’s fine with me because it isn't a matter of Democrats versus Republicans it is a matter of breaking a barrier that has prevented us from fixing the problem. Once the barrier is broken we can make serious progress.

I am not a racist; I want all people treated equally, no laws to create a biased advantage to anyone at any time. We must let go of the past and move to the future as one nation of many ethnic backgrounds meshed into one society of Americans who speak English as the primary language with no hyphenations such as African-American, Spanish-American, etc. that attempts to create a tossed salad society with know common language. We are all Americans as long as we are here legally; everyone else is an invader breaching our borders. The military’s prime objective is to protect our borders to maintain our sovereignty and to continue to exist as the United States of America.
42 posted on 08/21/2005 7:59:07 AM PDT by TheForceOfOne (The alternative media is our Enigma machine.)
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To: nicmarlo

Thank you! I'm on a few "lists," heh heh, but always appreciate the coverage.


43 posted on 08/21/2005 8:00:37 AM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: joanie-f
Apologies for any duplicate pings.
Apologies for any duplicate pings.

OK, but it better not happen again.
OK, but it better not happen again.

Thanks for re-posting this, joanie-f. I'd saved it from the other thread. It's a keeper.

44 posted on 08/21/2005 8:09:13 AM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: Borax Queen

yw, BQ


45 posted on 08/21/2005 8:26:24 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; Bernard; BJClinton; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
46 posted on 08/21/2005 8:42:35 AM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: abbi_normal_2; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; AMDG&BVMH; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

List of Ping lists

47 posted on 08/21/2005 8:43:10 AM PDT by freepatriot32 (Deep within every dilemma is a solution that involves explosives)
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To: joanie-f

Joanie,

I LOVE the idea of a wall. There is a fundamental difference between what you propose and what the Berlin Wall was. The Berlin Wall was designed by East Germany to prevent East Germans from escaping. Your Wall is to prevent foreigners from invading.

Actually, the more I think about it, I think the Mexicans would like your Wall too. I mean, just think of the Mural they can paint on the south side of it . . .


48 posted on 08/21/2005 8:44:57 AM PDT by Petruchio ( ... .--. .- -.-- / .- -. -.. / -. . ..- - . .-. / .. .-.. .-.. . --. .- .-.. / .- .-.. .. . -. ...)
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To: HiJinx; joanie-f

Roger that jonie ~ thanks for the ping HiJinx!

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant ~ Bump!


49 posted on 08/21/2005 8:46:16 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: XpandTheEkonomy
The American public was until circa 1965 unafraid of asserting its superiority as a people, a culture, a nation...Did I make you wince?

You hit the nail on the head. What makes me wince is when I hear someone complaining about the border problem who hastens to add that his concern is strictly about national security. This is usually said to deflect any charges of racism. But the fact is that if everyone of the millions of illegals in this country were properly vetted from a national security standpoint, they would still bring the same unwanted and negative consequences on our economy and culture that we are today experiencing.

50 posted on 08/21/2005 8:51:35 AM PDT by TexasKamaAina
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