Skip to comments.Never, Ever Leave home without It.
Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
There are neighborhoods in Denver where a few at the table might have shown you theirs.
Why would you expect peace and quiet at 430 am on a weekend? Maybe you should just scramble some eggs in the kitchen.
This ought to be fun; the RKBA is based on the principle of self-defense. A public place, no threat of physical safety, no one breaking the law - just a person annoyed by loud noise. One can imagine that he could be arrested for threatening other customers.
I was out of eggs. The restaurant was open and the grocery store was closed.
nothing like fresh "STFU" for breakfast
What you did was wrong.
A bunch of drunk kids?
Leave them alone.
Then you should be prepared for a little noise and exuberance. It's not your place to enforce anti noise laws. Open and concealed carry are meant for self defense, not open intimidation if someone offends your sensibilities.
I think that was over the top. I don't believe the open carry laws were devised to enforce someone's version of good manners.
The threat was implied. What would you have done if they had continued to carry on? Shoot them? If not, what was the point?
P.S. I have a concealed carry permit
I made no threats, nor touched my weapon. I simply asked them to keep the noise to a reasonable level. It was as unobtrusive as my balding head.
Excellent to hear!
Been there too.
I'm 5'8" and chubby. Not threatening at all.
You can get a lot more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word.
There is no excuse, especially "kids being kids", for behaving like loud idiots in public.
Nothing ruins eating out like other people's inconsiderate behavior.
I'm glad you were able to finish your meal in peace.
Would have been interesting if you came up against one of the drunks who also had a 9mm and told you to sit down and shut up. Would it have been the OK Corral?
Billy Bad-ass? Chip on shoulder?...or both...
yup , LOL!! , and nabes in NYC where the 1st thing you'd see would be the muzzle flash
"All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace."
Certainly the bakery would wrap your breakfast for take-out!
Using your rights to step on the rights of others - seems like you were the rude one.
I've had a CCW since I was 19. My state allows open carry, with a few exceptions like churches and government buildings. I can't begin to tell you how many times open carry has prevented trouble.
RKBA is based on the idea that an armed society is a free society and capable of controlling the government.
Individual self defense is secondary and incidental to that from what I've read in the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.
Ditto.... Sorry, but Ditto.
In that situation, you pay your bill and leave.
complete farking idiocy.
Thanks. All men were not created equal, until Samuel Colt came along.
That's the story I've heard from more than one packer. It makes sense. CJ sounds like a rambo wannabe who was lucky the noisy (but thus far 100% legal) crowd didn't have someone equipped to call his bluff.
The fact you circled the table twice definitely makes it sound like you were the aggressor. If you have the right to threaten people for being obnoxious most of us won't make it out of puberty.
Who decides when you're being too loud in public? Who gets to judge when using the cell phone is impolite? Anyone with a gun? What you did was wrong.
You enforced the negative image of guns and made it tougher for those of us who want to carry them peacefully.
Here in CT you can count on it. Having a CCW does not make you a superman, in fact, you need to act the complete opposite.
Sounds to me like he was looking for trouble...but, of course, I wasn't there.
I say again, bad manners does not equal "trouble". I'm 48 but remember well many a late night or early morning where a group of us 20-somethings ended up at diner or truckstop (we were military on TDY) winding down a little alchohol and high spirits over coffee and breakfast. Often in some little town in Montana or Wyoming. I suppose we were just as obnoxious to some. I'd go back in a heartbeat!
Colt may equalize things, but I still prefer the "Chicago Typewriter."
hey , this could be a good thread , Cranky Wanker meets Boozey Revelers at Greasy Spoon , overlapping short stories in the wee hours ,... maybe its good NYC doesn't have,er,y'know,... we coulda got popped years ago , we were more twitchy though
Would you have done the same thing if you weren't armed?
So are you making the argument that based on time and location it is ok to act like an asshat in a business establishment annoying other customers. After all it was a breakfast joint not a bar.
What gives you the right to eat in quiet at 4:15 a.m. at someone elses place of business? They were the only other patrons at the diner until you arrived, and there is nothing in your vanity post to indicate that they were threatening the waitress, the chef, or anyone else. I would have told you to "stuff it" and "if you think a bit of noise at 4:15 a.m. is worth unholstering your sidearm, then go ahead and make my day." What an a-hole.
Not until there is a serious threat to life or limb. They could have read you the riot act and had you pulled, YOU would be the one facing decades of dungeon if not worse.
So if a cop in uniform who was eating after getting off duty asked them to keep it down, could he be arrested for threatening them? Of course not.
I have three small children, and occasionally they get a little loud. As long as I am asked politely, I don't see a threat.
BTW, I carry almost every day.
Nope. You started the confrontation and if one of them had taken you on I'm sure the law in your state would have held you responsible just as the law for concealed carry does in my state.
"Carry" or "Liscensed to Carry Concealed" if for one purpose. Self defense or the defense of others. "Intimidation" is not part of the deal. This kind of behavior is used against law abiding gun owners in legal forums. (NRA member)
I think you have the order reversed. In principle, we have the absolute right to self-defense regardless of what may be written on a piece of paper. In other words, the 2nd merely codifies an existing right. Since the 2nd helps ensure that individuals are supreme, all other organizations (such as government), are subsidiary to this order.
In order for individuals to associate freely in an open society, we have a wide range of laws in which to regulate behaviour. This includes the principles of private property and threats to bodily harm. Absent any violation of these two elements, our poster is actually running the risk of being arrested himself; a veiled threat is still a threat.
Haw haw, then why you so quick to give credit to your gun. You can't play that shell game with us, boy.
"An armed society is a polite society."
Your statement is correct, but your implementation was completely flawed. As your story demonstrates, you modified your behavior when carrying a sidearm.
If it is a dumb idea to confront a bunch of drunks that are simply being annoying without a gun......then it is a dumb idea to do so with a gun. That you do not understand the difference, or how this could have been handled better, is why I offer this advice (without malice or mocking): You should not carry a gun.
It's up to the owner to enforce rules of decorum in his establishment and if he thinks it's getting out of line he can call the cops. Nothing written here by cholic Joe indicates these guys were anything other than noisy. That's not a crime where I come from.