Posted on 08/21/2005 6:02:36 AM PDT by CholeraJoe
"Never, ever leave home without it." No, not your American Express card, your sidearm.
This morning, I woke up about 4:15 and was hungry, so I decided to drive to the local 24-hour beanery. The only other customers were a table of 10, intoxicated 20-somethings making alot of noise.
There were 7 muscular young men and three loud-mouthed young women. After listening to their raucous laughter for 10 minutes, I politely asked the waitress to ask them to hold down the noise. All I wanted to do was eat my breakfast in relative peace.
Her request for quiet lasted about 45 seconds, then the noise and laughter resumed. At that point, I decided to do something.
Bear in mind that I am not an imposing figure. I'm 5'9", mid 50's, and slim. I walked over to the table, and walked completely around it twice. I said, "I'd like y'all to hold down the noise for a while, please." One of the young men started to give me trash-talk but within seconds was elbowed by the guy next to him, who whispered something in his ear. Then everyone at the table said, "Yes, sir, or OK."
What made the difference? Open carry. I was wearing a 9mm semi-auto on my right hip. I never touched it and I made no threats, but it was nevertheless visible.
So if a cop in uniform who was eating after getting off duty asked them to keep it down, could he be arrested for threatening them? Of course not.
I have three small children, and occasionally they get a little loud. As long as I am asked politely, I don't see a threat.
BTW, I carry almost every day.
Nope. You started the confrontation and if one of them had taken you on I'm sure the law in your state would have held you responsible just as the law for concealed carry does in my state.
"Carry" or "Liscensed to Carry Concealed" if for one purpose. Self defense or the defense of others. "Intimidation" is not part of the deal. This kind of behavior is used against law abiding gun owners in legal forums. (NRA member)
I think you have the order reversed. In principle, we have the absolute right to self-defense regardless of what may be written on a piece of paper. In other words, the 2nd merely codifies an existing right. Since the 2nd helps ensure that individuals are supreme, all other organizations (such as government), are subsidiary to this order.
In order for individuals to associate freely in an open society, we have a wide range of laws in which to regulate behaviour. This includes the principles of private property and threats to bodily harm. Absent any violation of these two elements, our poster is actually running the risk of being arrested himself; a veiled threat is still a threat.
Yup.
Haw haw, then why you so quick to give credit to your gun. You can't play that shell game with us, boy.
"An armed society is a polite society."
Your statement is correct, but your implementation was completely flawed. As your story demonstrates, you modified your behavior when carrying a sidearm.
If it is a dumb idea to confront a bunch of drunks that are simply being annoying without a gun......then it is a dumb idea to do so with a gun. That you do not understand the difference, or how this could have been handled better, is why I offer this advice (without malice or mocking): You should not carry a gun.
It's up to the owner to enforce rules of decorum in his establishment and if he thinks it's getting out of line he can call the cops. Nothing written here by cholic Joe indicates these guys were anything other than noisy. That's not a crime where I come from.
Not in Montana, and most other red states. Very liberal definition of self-defense.
Very fine inspirational story. Thanks for sharing.
Post the law that says for that crowd to have told you off, would be cause for you to shoot them.
I agree that someone in his fifties should be able to give "advice" to people in their twenties on how to behave.
A cop has no right to enforce noise restrictions where none exist at a public place of business. Intimidating others under the color of authority has serious consequences. He would be most likely be terminated, and the department sued, if this had happened while in uniform.
Expecting people to be civil in a public place at 0430 is somehow out of line? Expecting a citizen to "stay home" is the answer? My..my....That's right your not from Texas....but Texas wants you anyway...as long as you learn civility.....
This is not Ms. Manners. This is Ms. Manners with PMS and a gun.
They probably thought you were bacon. Thats what you wanted, isn't it? I see you as nothing but a bully with a gun. In this vanity event, your weapon simply enhanced your manhood.
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