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Navy Officer Affirms Assertions About Pre-9/11 Data on Atta
NY Times ^ | August 22, 2005 | PHILIP SHENON

Posted on 08/22/2005 4:13:55 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: conservative in nyc
The only way Lt. Col. Shaffer and Capt. Phillpott will survive the upcoming Clintonista sliming is if someone finds the chart with Atta's name on it.

Well they found Monica's blue dress so there is always hope.

101 posted on 08/22/2005 5:53:39 PM PDT by sydbas
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To: Torie

When you read COVERUP, imagine a TADUMMMMM in the background. :-}


102 posted on 08/22/2005 5:54:22 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: neverdem
Earlier today, on another thread, I posted the following ... this may be the break Shaffer needs to keep this story front & center.

The Pentagon has no vested interest in uncovering the data linking Able Danger and Atta. That's why Lt. Col. Shaffer needs documentation, or additional credible witnesses to step up to the plate ... otherwise this goes nowhere.

103 posted on 08/22/2005 5:54:26 PM PDT by BluH2o
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To: longfellow

You bet Qalinton knew about Atta and he also could have targeted Ohsama several times and would not...But how much of this info was passed to Bush....


104 posted on 08/22/2005 5:54:49 PM PDT by crowman
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To: oceanview

MY guess as to why the Republican committee members are so weak is for 2 reasons...they were picked by congresscritters, (who are notoriously chicken, IMHO)...

AND, since none of these Senators LIKE to go out limb, they probable didn't trust Bush enough to think that he would come out unscathed...and maybe thought they were doing Bush a favor by picking INEPT commissioners so the TRUTH could stay hidden , if necessary..


105 posted on 08/22/2005 5:56:15 PM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: ken5050
#62...ewww....would you want that assignment?!!..lol
106 posted on 08/22/2005 5:56:21 PM PDT by Guenevere (Jamie Gorelick is responsible for more deaths than there have been soldiers killed in Iraq.)
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To: jwalsh07

sounds like they had a late night shredding party


107 posted on 08/22/2005 5:57:02 PM PDT by RDTF
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To: RDTF

It sure does. I can't think of any other rational explanation. While the fact that someone in government knew Atta was already here would cause ripples it wouldn't have caused a tidal wave. If proof emerges that they covered up the fact that Atta had been ID'd, bar the door Katie.


108 posted on 08/22/2005 6:02:31 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: oceanview
Gordon was in self-preservation mode. (Aside: How did this jerk ever get elected to anything?)

I thought O'Reilly tried, but wasn't sufficiently informed... and he seemed to defer to Gordon. Pulled his punches.

I would have asked Gordon to justify Gorelick's presence on the commission.

Gorelick's surreal presence on the 911 commission investigating Gorelick's Justice Department, a maneuver that effectively removes from the universe of witnesses a central witness, Gorelick, even as it uniquely positions a central player, Gorelick, to directly shape the commission's conclusions. (Is there any question which two people are responsible for Gorelick's insertion on the commission?)

Conversely, that it never occurred to anyone on the commission that Gorelick's flagrant conflict of interest renders her presence on the commission beyond farce calls into question the commission's judgment if not its integrity. Washington's mutual protection racket writ large, I suspect....

Reverse Gorelick
by Mia T, 4.15.04
QUINN IN THE MORNING (ESSAY DISCUSSED)
(
MP3, REAL, WINDOWS MEDIA, WINAMP)

Why hillary clinton should never be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office... or any position of power--THE SERIES
REASON 1: MISSUS CLINTON HIRED JAMIE GORELICK



WHY DID BILL CLINTON IGNORE TERRORISM?
Was it simply the constraints of his liberal mindset, or was it something even more threatening to our national security?





109 posted on 08/22/2005 6:04:07 PM PDT by Mia T (Stop Clintons' Undermining Machinations (The acronym is the message.))
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To: Desron13; All
"...memory is a complicated thing."

Ever notice that when a lefty gets caught in a lie or exposed in a debate, they always revert to the "it's too complicated" statement?

Translation; you are not as smart as me, you don't/can't understand what I understand.

Sheer arrogance, along with the dishonesty.

110 posted on 08/22/2005 6:11:35 PM PDT by NewLand (Faith in The Lord trumps all!)
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To: SubMareener

Thanks for the link.


111 posted on 08/22/2005 6:20:59 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: jimbo123

Thanks for the numbers & email addees.


112 posted on 08/22/2005 6:24:40 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

Who you gonna believe, Washington politicians in full cover mode or Military Officers? I know whom I believe, Anchors Aweigh baby. Get em boys!!


113 posted on 08/22/2005 6:24:42 PM PDT by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668)
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To: pbrown

"They aren't going to be able to unscramble an egg soon. I believe it's reached a point to where the genie can't be put back into the bottle. It's growing daily."

Now no one is going to nail you on that statement.


114 posted on 08/22/2005 6:24:53 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: Coop

I heard there were a dozen of these guys or so. Seems we will be treated to a parade of them, perhaps one a week, until this story reaches critical mass.

Right now, I suspect the bureaucrats are figuring out how to handle this when it does break.


115 posted on 08/22/2005 6:25:29 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (Fairtax.org)
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To: strategofr
IF this was a black op in all likeliness there will be no docs to be found.

My husband was involved in counterintel black ops during the cold war and the lack of documents has caused us untold distress.
116 posted on 08/22/2005 6:30:20 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek ("Over there, Over there, we will be there until it is Over there.")
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To: neverdem

No..they'll just blame the Pentagon and never mention that it was during Clinton's watch...it will somehow be Bush's fault


117 posted on 08/22/2005 6:32:34 PM PDT by t2buckeye
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To: thoughtomator

"The big question is, why is the New York Times printing stories that may prove immensely damaging to their politics? It's totally out of character."

Good question. Track the MSM on a timeline marked by 11/2004. By 11/2004, everthning they said was a lie. Since then, they have much more truth. They are building credibility so they can lie more effectively in 2006, 2008.


118 posted on 08/22/2005 6:36:43 PM PDT by strategofr (What did happen to those 293 boxes of secret FBI files (esp on Senators) Hillary stole?)
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To: getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL

I noticed that too, or do you think they are packing their bags for france?


119 posted on 08/22/2005 6:36:59 PM PDT by longfellow (Bill Maher, the 21st hijacker.)
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To: thoughtomator

The Navy Captain knows that the NY Times is the "paper of record", so he gives them the story. If they don't print it, he gets a two-fer, i.e. he gives the story to another media outlet and claims that the NY Times wouldn't print it.

Good move.

As bad as it is, the NY Times isn't that stupid.


120 posted on 08/22/2005 6:38:34 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: navyblue

Lt. Col is an O-5, isn't a Navy Captain a pretty high rank?


121 posted on 08/22/2005 6:39:26 PM PDT by chgomac (Cindy says this is all about Casey)
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To: mercy

"Yeah? Well Slate Gorton says Shaffer is a liar. So Philpott must be lying to."

And the people who put together "Inside 9/11" for National Geographic, and their sources must be lying, too? They have a segment in their documentary concerning intelligence officers at McDill Air Force Base had a chart with pictures of Mohammad Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi on it.


122 posted on 08/22/2005 6:41:14 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: popdonnelly

Who is Dr. Cambone?


123 posted on 08/22/2005 6:43:22 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: sydbas
Several have asked if the chart was available. I have reasons to be exploring such solutions, and was very impressed with a data mining application produced by www.i2inc.com . They may not appreciate the advertising, but they publicly distributed a chart showing the relationships between the 9/11 terrorists, including their photographs. They distributed a CD with the browser/data reader at a major security trade show (ASIS). Their demo included the chart. This was publicly distributed. It may not be chart described, but it may. It is an impressive mining package!

I'll never forget having been trained as a Nike Universal Fire Control technician, having received my Scientific American I showed the ad from Varian which identified the central klystron tube of the tracking radar to my classmates; the G2 officer heard about it and came to my barracks and confiscated the magazine. If this is the chart, it is not news to terrorists. People should learn as much about terrorist networks as they can, so I hope the I2 chart is still available.
124 posted on 08/22/2005 6:44:01 PM PDT by Spaulding (Wagdadbythebay)
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To: Cboldt

Thanks for the date of Weldon's speech.

There is one thing that has always bothered me about 9/11, and this Able Danger business only compounds my problem:

German intelligence had both Atta and his roomate Binalshib under surveillance for some time because of their connection to some real bad guys in Europe. Atta visited Spain on January 1, 2001, and tehn July 8, 2001. In the second visit he arrived from Zurich, rented a car and then took off for Taragona, where he met Binalshib. German intelligence warned Spanish intelligence of Binalshib's arrival. Binalshib travelled under a Yemeni passport, Atta under an Egyptian passport in his own name. The Spanish apparently lost Atta from the 9-13 July 2001, they caught up to him on the night of the 13 through the 15th where he stayed and the San Jordi Hotel. On the 16th Benalshib returns to Hamburg. The next day Atta returns the car he rented in Madrid and in which had driven more than 1,000 miles. He takes a Delta flight, arriving in Atlanta and then transferring to a flight to Fort Lauderdale. Now:
My question is this: If German and Spanish intelligence services were following Atta and seemed to know what he and Benalshib were up to in Europe, why didn't the CIA know it? Or if they did, why didn't they pass the info to the FBI? The wall of separation? I wonder if the 9/11 people investigated this?


125 posted on 08/22/2005 6:44:16 PM PDT by gaspar
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To: chgomac
Lt. Col is an O-5, isn't a Navy Captain a pretty high rank?

O-6

126 posted on 08/22/2005 6:45:07 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson (My brain maybe tiny but it is quite accurate.)
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To: navyblue
This is an active duty captain? I think he can forget about ever getting those stars on his collar.

It sounds like he put his country before his career.

127 posted on 08/22/2005 6:45:42 PM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: lexington minuteman 1775
.I tend to believe the Lt. Col.I don't tend to trust bureaucrats.

Even more the Navy Captain. Very very few outright wackos make it to O-6. Even more interesting is this little tidbit, which could give lie to the notion that this was a confusion with another Mohammed Atta (also a terrorist).

Representative Weldon also arranged an interview with a former employee of a defense contractor who said he had helped create a chart in 2000 for the intelligence program that included Mr. Atta's photograph and name.

The former contractor, James D. Smith, said that Mr. Atta's name and photograph were obtained through a private researcher in California who was paid to gather the information from contacts in the Middle East. Mr. Smith said that he had retained a copy of the chart for some time and that it had been posted on his office wall at Andrews Air Force Base. He said it had become stuck to the wall and was impossible to remove when he switched jobs.

128 posted on 08/22/2005 6:46:23 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: All
Finding the original wall chart and Atta's name. Fat chance -- and for very good reasons.

A chart that occupies one or more walls is first of all a working document. The chart allows the various teams which are building a system to define where they fit in and to take down information. It's a waste to save the original.

I think they are great to define large computer systems. Only rarely did we make an effort to copy and shrink one to 3 or 4 feet wide and X feet long to save.

Why would Able Danger ever need to do that? They'll never find that original wall chart.

Once the Able Danger folks walked the users (i.e., the intelligence personnel) through the "how and what" why keep the chart? They had the names and other information that they needed. Besides the automated data mining was maybe kind of ad hoc to help Able Danger analysts.

They may (emphasis on may) find source code and files of extracted raw data used to piece together the wall chart. I suppose they should find intelligence documents but they will not likely prove how the information was got.

If someone says they need the original wall chart, they're lying and covering up, IMO.

129 posted on 08/22/2005 6:47:37 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Hillary is the she in shenanigans.)
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To: gaspar

Good question. The Germans warned the Spanish when he went to Spain. It stands to reason the Spanish warned the CIA when he came to the US.


130 posted on 08/22/2005 6:50:17 PM PDT by Buckhead
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To: neverdem

Sorry to say, but no corroborating documents = no story.


131 posted on 08/22/2005 6:53:50 PM PDT by NathanBookman (It's dark out.)
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To: gusopol3

According to Google, his position is Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence. According to Shaffer, he briefed Cambone on the Able Danger program before Shaffer went public with his story. I assume he had to give Cambone assurance that he wouldn't disclose anything classified.


132 posted on 08/22/2005 6:53:55 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: chgomac

One step down from one star Admiral.


133 posted on 08/22/2005 6:54:43 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: Shermy
I agree these characters are not telling very convincing stories. However, did you notice the non-denial denial from the Pentagon?

Mr. Di Rita said in an interview that while the department continued to investigate the assertions, there was no evidence so far that the intelligence unit had come up with such specific information about Mr. Atta and any of the other hijackers.
That is very heavily qualified denial.
134 posted on 08/22/2005 6:55:26 PM PDT by Buckhead
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To: navyblue
This is an active duty captain? I think he can forget about ever getting those stars on his collar.

The weed out rate from O-6 to O-7 is pretty steep anyway. He's already about one grade higher than most officers can reasonably hope to get in a career.

135 posted on 08/22/2005 7:00:00 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Weldon delivered a chart to the White House after the Bush Administration took over. No one there seems to have ever seen it. The key to all this is Weldon who seems perfectly assured that he has the goods.


136 posted on 08/22/2005 7:01:04 PM PDT by gaspar
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To: neverdem

To get to the bottom of this is going to require getting into Sandy Berger's pants. Any volunteers?


137 posted on 08/22/2005 7:03:43 PM PDT by Rebelbase ("Run Hillary Run" bumper stickers. Liberals place on rear bumper, conservatives put on front bumper)
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To: All
This new source should not surprise anyone. Saffer said that there were other sources to back up his claims and that the DoD was working to clear them to allow them to tell their story.

Another thing. We can assume that Gorelick's only reason for being on the 9/11 commission was to protect her from testifying. And once again, Ben-Veniste's words basically daring Shaffer to show them the proof seem a little to suspicious to me. A lawyer never asks a question or for evidence to be presented unless they know what the answer is or if that evidence exists or will hurt them.

I also think that these people never expected someone to be able to come forward to bring this issue up. They all thought the issue was dead when the commission finalized its report and patted itself on the back.

On a scale of 1-10 on the Crap Hitting the Wall Splat-O-Meter..........this is a 30.
138 posted on 08/22/2005 7:09:24 PM PDT by baystaterebel (F/8 and be there!)
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To: gaspar
RE: Weldon's chart

I don't doubt that segments were copied either directly or from notes and memory.

When I think of wall charts I mean wall. We used six-foot wide paper obtained from a paper mill that in some cases reached around a large room. Of course I have no idea about the size of the Able Danger chart.

139 posted on 08/22/2005 7:10:57 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Hillary is the she in shenanigans.)
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To: thoughtomator
I am beginning to think the NYT is afraid of HRC, not her politics, but her mental stability.
140 posted on 08/22/2005 7:11:32 PM PDT by razorback-bert
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To: Coop
How was that, by the way?

Pretty decent. They did mention the ID of Atta. Actually Part II is ongoing now, for another 50 minutes. It will replay at 9 PDT (11 CDT, 12 EDT) , IIRC. National Geographic channel.

141 posted on 08/22/2005 7:12:27 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: popdonnelly

thanks.


142 posted on 08/22/2005 7:14:58 PM PDT by gusopol3
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To: thoughtomator
The big question is, why is the New York Times printing stories that may prove immensely damaging to their politics? It's totally out of character.

They want to damage the Pentagon and the military.

143 posted on 08/22/2005 7:19:20 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Shermy
Oh yeah, the old "sticky wall" excuse. He should have just said he didn't think to take it.

If he taped it to the wall with regular, not "magic" cellophane tape, that does tend to form a pretty strong bond, stronger than the paper, after not all that long. Anyone who's ever been in an office or cube for a goodly period, and taped stuff to the walls, knows this. Double sided tape, or the old trick of making a loop of regular tape with the sticky side out, can be even worse.

144 posted on 08/22/2005 7:20:25 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: NathanBookman

Does no corroborating docs = no story apply to JOE WILSON? He didn't file a written report upon his return from Niger.


145 posted on 08/22/2005 7:20:49 PM PDT by Stajack
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To: thoughtomator
The fact that The Times is into this is to be considered excellent news. Liberal they are, but this is a story of potentially huge repercussions. A good newspaper follows the BIG story where it goes. I'm sure most of the editorial staff hopes their investigations lead to nothing substantial. then the Times can say they were impartial , but the story was false. If the investigation leads to the motherlode it will be unfortunate for any politician caught in the web, because the Times will run this on page one above the fold until the bodies are carted away. That's the newspaper business.

Look at the NY Post. A conservative and patriotic tabloid, but if a conservative politician screws up the Post is on them like white's on rice. Remember it was the Times alone among the MSM that gave credence to Whitewater. In the end with a newspaper, it's about the story. Why? that most unliberal trait and value, competition. The MSM TV networks don't compete. They're like Ford, GM, And Chrysler were in the 50s and 60s. happy to divide the market. Newspapers, even in different cities, judge themselves against their peers. The Times considers itself the Casey Stengel Yankees. If there is a story here the Times will go with it.

146 posted on 08/22/2005 7:22:00 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (Peace, Love, Brotherhood, and Firepower. And the greatest of these is Firepower!)
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To: All
One more thing...... It puts the tinfoil on its head

Could there be something even more important buried in all this. Maybe Atta is not the only reason some have seemed to not want Able Danger findings to become public.

Imagine if the real concern is how they linked Atta to an Al Quida cell. What would happen if some of the data that got the name Atta to the top of the board was association with Iraqi agents........
147 posted on 08/22/2005 7:22:57 PM PDT by baystaterebel (F/8 and be there!)
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To: chgomac

A Navy Captain is an O-6, equivalent to an Army Colonel.


148 posted on 08/22/2005 7:24:39 PM PDT by Stajack
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To: Stajack

"Does no corroborating docs = no story apply to JOE WILSON?"

No. It only applies to stories that are negative to Dems. Stories negative to GOP never need docs.


149 posted on 08/22/2005 7:25:46 PM PDT by NathanBookman (It's dark out.)
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To: Coop
If you can't watch the replay (or first play depending on where you are) check out the website: www.inside911.com and judge for yourself.
150 posted on 08/22/2005 7:27:20 PM PDT by El Gato
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