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THE GREAT RAID - "Ted Kennedy, that is torture; you shut the hell up!" yelled in theatre
dfu | 8-27-05 | dfu

Posted on 08/27/2005 7:51:00 PM PDT by doug from upland

"The Great Raid" was a very enjoyable, stirring, and patriotic movie about heroic Americans and Filipinos in WW II. It was the most successful raid of prisoners in our history.

Some idiot at the end of the movie yelled out in the movie theatre -- "That's torture, Ted Kennedy; you shut the hell up!" Yes, that idiot would, of course, be yours truly. No wonder Mrs. DFU usually wants to avoid going to movie theatres with me and would rather rent them. I can't blame her. And during the last presidential campaign, she cringed when I demanded that the waitress remove the Heinz Ketchup and replace it with a bottle of W Ketchup. And let's not forget that she didn't want to ride in my car with all the magnetic stickers. Other than that, we get along wonderfully. Well, almost. She has warned me that if I am ever arrested at a FReep, she won't bail me out.

SEE THE TRAILER


From director John Dahl comes the stirring true story of one of the most spectacular rescue missions ever to take place in American history: "the great raid on Cabanatuan," the daring exploit that would liberate more than 500 U.S. Prisoners of War in the face of overwhelming odds. A gripping depiction of human resilience, the film vividly brings to life the personal courage and audacious heroism that allowed a small but stoic band of World War II soldiers to attempt the impossible in the hopes of freeing their captured brothers.

Once a tale shared across the United States, the long-lost story of THE GREAT RAID has been recreated with meticulous authenticity to pay testimony to the many different people, from U.S. commanders to Filipino soldiers to women aid workers to the POWs themselves, who played a part in turning this time of intense hardship and unrelenting danger into a moment of inspiration.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: greatraid; japan; moviereview; phillipines; thegreatraid
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1 posted on 08/27/2005 7:51:09 PM PDT by doug from upland
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To: doug from upland
"She has warned me that if I am ever arrested at a FReep, she won't bail me out."

lol
2 posted on 08/27/2005 7:55:39 PM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: doug from upland
Just returned from the movie tonite. Very disappointed. Reading "Ghost Soldiers," one of the two books the movie is based on, probably ruined it for me. Too much Hollywood license. Much of the story (outside the actual raid) is nonsense.

The theatre was over half full, and I was one of the youngest people in it (I'm 47). I recommend you watch the movie in order to support this sort of movie-making (subject wise) but read the book to really get an understanding of the magnificence of the Rangers and the Filipino guerrillas who were involved.

3 posted on 08/27/2005 7:59:24 PM PDT by Timmy
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To: doug from upland

there was a very interesting interview on the web yesterday of michael prince, the second in command. the commander died in the nineties, but i thought the prince interview was great....a great man...(http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/movies/237842_raid25.html) i dunno if i did the link right or not.


4 posted on 08/27/2005 8:00:11 PM PDT by wildwood
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To: Timmy

hmmmm...prince (in the article posted above) verifies much of the film...discusses which were hollywood devices....pretty accurate, according to the second in command.


5 posted on 08/27/2005 8:01:42 PM PDT by wildwood
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To: doug from upland

Thank you for the review.

But the real question is: Why do you torture your Mrs. so much?? :-)


6 posted on 08/27/2005 8:08:06 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: JoeSixPack1

This political stuff is important. I put up with all the money and time she has invested in quilting and quilt supplies. Hey, what other FReeper husband has taken his wife on 5+ quilt runs all over hell and back?


7 posted on 08/27/2005 8:13:55 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: doug from upland; All
I am looking forward to seeing it. It was a great operation, well planned and well executed. However things don't always go as well as you hope they will. This is what happened to my father in law in a similar raid.

My father in law was a New Zealander in the Long Range Desert Group during WWII. They had information that there was a German POW camp that was only lightly defended. What they did was have a few of them dress up like German soldiers and the rest look like British POW's, they were going to drive into the prison camp like they were delivering the other "prisoners". They had enough trucks where they had room for all the people in the POW camp. They were going to over power the guards, put everybody on the trucks and haul ass.

However when they got there, it seemed there were at least a battalion sized German armored unit next to the camp. So what they had to do was the guys dressed up like POW's had to get off and the ones dress as Germans had to leave them. He was dressed as a German since he could speak the language. He saw a few of his friends after the war that they left and they told him what happened. The Germans always kept excellent records and could not understand why they had about 20 more men in the POW camp than they were supposed to have. It took the Germans about three days to figure out what had happened. When they did, they actually thought it was quite funny.
8 posted on 08/27/2005 8:14:00 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (WHEN JANE FONDA STARTS HER TOUR, LET ME KNOW WHERE SHE IS)
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To: doug from upland

See the movie "To End All Wars" to see what life was like in a Japanese POW camp. Try to put yourself in the position of the people in the camp and how they suffered. I don't think I could have done what they did at the end. I couldn't forgive people like that.


9 posted on 08/27/2005 8:17:42 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (WHEN JANE FONDA STARTS HER TOUR, LET ME KNOW WHERE SHE IS)
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To: doug from upland

doug, you are a gutsy guy!


10 posted on 08/27/2005 8:18:08 PM PDT by krunkygirl
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To: Timmy
Just returned from the movie tonite. Very disappointed.

Some people would be disappointed even if you hung 'em with a new rope.

11 posted on 08/27/2005 8:19:27 PM PDT by Prince Caspian (Don't ask if it's risky... Ask if the reward is worth the risk)
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To: wildwood
Well, yeah. There WAS a raid. It occurred in late January 1945. 500+ prisoners WERE liberated. Colonel Mucci WAS in charge. Bob Prince DID plan and execute the raid. The Japanese WERE bad guys. Doctor Jimmy Fisher was wounded (and later died). There was only one other Ranger killed (accidently, by another Ranger). But:

There was no love story as presented in the movie. According to Ghost Soldiers, there was no tension between Mucci and Prince. In fact, Mucci loved Prince so much (he called him "my wonderful Captain Prince") it was a subject of embarrassment to Prince. The men did not misunderstand Mucci, they worshipped him. The Filipino guerrillas did not beg to fight, they were part of the plan from the beginning. There was no execution of 11 prisoners the day before the raid. The Japanese who took over the camp after the guards left were NOT special police forces. They were merely Japanese army personnel who left the prisoners pretty much alone (unlike the previous landlords). The plan was to destroy the bridge, not just to make it unusable for vehicles (which is what actually happened). The evil Japanese commander, the last to survive? Please!

They should have left out the love story and focused more on character development.

But what do I know? I thought Mel Gibson unforgivably botched the end of We Were Soldiers.

12 posted on 08/27/2005 8:22:45 PM PDT by Timmy
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To: doug from upland
...in quilting and quilt supplies.

ROFL!! Now I truely understand. Kudos! :-)

13 posted on 08/27/2005 8:22:52 PM PDT by JoeSixPack1
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To: Texas_Jarhead

While channel surfing, I saw a promo for this movie and they had actor who said, "We had these little tents slept on the ground and it was cold."


14 posted on 08/27/2005 8:23:29 PM PDT by razorback-bert
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To: U S Army EOD
The Marine Base where my Dad worked employed a lot of former "Prisoners of the Sun" and Maru survivors. Over the years the affection I hold for the Corps has grown.
15 posted on 08/27/2005 8:23:41 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
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To: Prince Caspian
Some people would be disappointed even if you hung 'em with a new rope.

Well, I'm not sure that that's fair. But tell you what, I'll gladly listen to criticism of my comments from anyone who has read one of the two books (The Great Raid on Cantabatuan or Ghost Soldiers) and who has seen the movie. What would be more fair?

16 posted on 08/27/2005 8:29:02 PM PDT by Timmy
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To: krunkygirl

And, since he is no longer here to do it, I will thank you for my step-granddad who survived the Bataan Death March. I know that he would feel extreme contempt for the likes of Ted Kennedy.


17 posted on 08/27/2005 8:30:35 PM PDT by krunkygirl
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To: doug from upland

whoops! meant to address that to you, doug.


18 posted on 08/27/2005 8:32:23 PM PDT by krunkygirl
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To: doug from upland

Haha, Doug, my husband says I should go to the Opera with you. When they bastardize them with Madonna-like costumes or putrid existential renditions of what could be so lovely, I warn him first and then BOO loudly at the end. Have never failed to find others who join in. And it is so satisfying, definitely a way to make sure you get your money's worth.


19 posted on 08/27/2005 8:33:09 PM PDT by bboop
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To: doug from upland
THE GREAT RAID has been recreated with meticulous authenticity to pay testimony to the many different people, from U.S. commanders to Filipino soldiers to women aid workers to the POWs themselves, who played a part in turning this time of intense hardship and unrelenting danger into a moment of inspiration.

The Japanese used panties too?

20 posted on 08/27/2005 8:37:52 PM PDT by neodad (I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go in harm's way)
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To: Timmy

I'm just kiddin' ya. I can't debate you on either book or movie, having read/seen neither. But a book is always richer and more complete than the movie. And it's not really fair to compare them. A movie can never plumb the same depths as a book. It is, after all, a commercial endeavor, and thereby subject to unique fiscal, marketing, packaging, and "entertainment" constraints unlike those imposed on the written account.


21 posted on 08/27/2005 8:45:57 PM PDT by Prince Caspian (Don't ask if it's risky... Ask if the reward is worth the risk)
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To: doug from upland

Just curious, was there any reaction from the other people in the theater?


22 posted on 08/27/2005 8:54:27 PM PDT by Tatze (I voted for John Kerry before I voted against him!)
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To: doug from upland

Saw it tonight and loved it. Dragged the wife and my sister who also enjoyed it. I understand the need for Hollyweird to sex it up in order to sell women on seeing it. My biggest bitch is the jingling and clanking when the Rangers moved. I've been around real Rangers; they moved in the dark like ghosts. HOOAAH!


23 posted on 08/27/2005 9:05:27 PM PDT by darth
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To: doug from upland
Hey, what other FReeper husband has taken his wife on 5+ quilt runs all over hell and back?

You could always set fire to the quilts...

24 posted on 08/27/2005 9:08:14 PM PDT by sauropod (Polite political action is about as useful as a miniskirt in a convent -- Claire Wolfe)
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To: bboop

I think we'd get along just great.


25 posted on 08/27/2005 9:16:43 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: Tatze
I was surprised but there was no reaction. I think the people we enjoying too much the old video in the crawl at the end. The theatre was about 1/3 to 1/2 full.

When INDEPENDENCE DAY came out, I did good reaction from people when I yelled "Adios Billy Boy" when the White House was blown up by the alien invaders.

26 posted on 08/27/2005 9:19:51 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: Mr. Mojo

Ping!


27 posted on 08/27/2005 9:23:30 PM PDT by NRA2BFree (Clinton will be recorded in history as the only President to do "Hanky Panky between the Bushes.")
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To: neodad
The Japanese used panties too?

The fiends!!!

28 posted on 08/27/2005 9:29:57 PM PDT by pbear8 (Laus Semper Deus)
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To: doug from upland
I saw it too, just because one of the great freedoms we have as Americans is how we spend our money.

While the movie portrayed the Japanese as ruthless savages they could have done much more and still been within historical accuracy. Sadly the Japanese have never been held fully to account for the atrocities committed during the war.

29 posted on 08/27/2005 9:41:21 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: doug from upland

Yesterday my wife and I went to see "The Great Raid," the first time we've been to the movies in about a year.

We both enjoyed the film. Yes, it might have been better had it been done by someone like Mel Gibson, but at least it was made, which is very surprising considering the garbage that Hollywood usually throws our way.

Some years ago I had occasion to do extensive research on the treatment of American prisoners of war by the Japanese. In the course of the research I interviewed and corresponded with a number of former prisoners, most of whom had spent time at Cabanatuan. The brutality shown in the film is tame compared to what really happened.

I was impressed with the way the men of the 6th Ranger Battalion were depicted. There were no Rambos, no reluctant warriors ridden with angst, no misfits, just ordinary soldiers who were given a dangerous mission. Each one of them picked up his ruck, got on the truck, and completed the mission with honor. Know what else I liked about the movie? The only "exit strategy" they cared about was getting the prisoners back safely to American lines after liberating them.


30 posted on 08/27/2005 9:59:27 PM PDT by billnaz (What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?)
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To: Last Dakotan

The following is Colonel Eugene Holmes's September 1992 affidavit concerning Bill Clinton and the draft.


Colonel Eugene Holmes is a highly decorated officer of the United States Army. He is a survivor of the Bataan Death March and three and a half years as a POW of the Japanese. He served 32 years in the army before retiring with 100% disability. His decorations include the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, 2 Legions of Merit, the Army Commendation Medal and many others. During the Vietnam War, he personally inducted both his sons into the service--one for 3 years as a regular army enlisted man, and the other as a commissioned officer (after he had completed ROTC training).





There have been many unanswered questions as to the circumstances surrounding Bill Clinton's involvement with the ROTC department at the University of Arkansas. Prior to this time I have not felt the necessity for discussing the details. The reason I have not done so before is that my poor physical health (a consequence of participation in the Battan Death March and the subsequent three and a half years interment in Japanese POW camps) has precluded me from getting into what I felt was unnecessary involvement. However, present polls show that there is the imminent danger to our country of a draft dodger becoming Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. While it is true, as Mr. Clinton has stated, that there were many others who avoided serving their country in the Vietnam war, they are not aspiring to be the President of the United States.

The tremendous implications of the possibility of his becoming Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces compels me now to comment on the facts concerning Mr. Clinton's evasion of the draft. This account would not have been imperative had Bill Clinton been completely honest with the American public concerning this matter. But as Mr. Clinton replied on a news conference this evening (September 5, 1992) after being asked another particular about his dodging the draft, "Almost everyone concerned with these incidents are dead. I have no more comments to make". Since I may be the only person living who can give a first hand account of what actually transpired, I am obligated by my love for my country and my sense of duty to divulge what actually happened and make it a matter of record.

Bill Clinton came to see me at my home in 1969 to discuss his desire to enroll in the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas. We engaged in an extensive, approximately two (2) hour interview. At no time during this long conversation about his desire to join the program did he inform me of his involvement, participation and actually organizing protests against the United States involvement in South East Asia. He was shrewd enough to realize that had I been aware of his activities, he would not have been accepted into the ROTC program as a potential officer in the United States Army.

The next day I began to receive phone calls regarding Bill Clinton's draft status. I was informed by the draft board that it was of interest to Senator Fullbright's office that Bill Clinton, a Rhodes Scholar, should be admitted to the ROTC program. I received several such calls. The general message conveyed by the draft board to me was that Senator Fullbright's office was putting pressure on them and that they needed my help. I then made the necessary arrangements to enroll Mr. Clinton into the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas.

I was not "saving" him from serving his country, as he erroneously thanked me for in his letter from England (dated December 3, 1969). I was making it possible for a Rhodes Scholar to serve in the military as an officer. In retrospect I see that Mr. Clinton had no intention of following through with his agreement to join the Army ROTC program at the University of Arkansas or to attend the University of Arkansas Law School. I had explained to him the necessity of enrolling at the University of Arkansas as a student in order to be eligible to take the ROTC program at the University. He never enrolled at the University of Arkansas, but instead enrolled at Yale after attending Oxford. I believe that he purposely deceived me, using the possibility of joining the ROTC as a ploy to work with the draft board to delay his induction and get a new draft classification.

The December 3rd letter written to me by Mr. Clinton, and subsequently taken from the files by Lt. Col. Clint Jones, my executive officer, was placed into the ROTC files so that a record would be available in case the applicant should again petition to enter the ROTC program. The information in that letter alone would have restricted Bill Clinton from ever qualifying to be an officer in the United States Military. Even more significant was his lack of veracity in purposefully defrauding the military by deceiving me, both in concealing his anti-military activities overseas and his counterfeit intentions for later military service. These actions cause me to question both his patriotism and his integrity. When I consider the calabre, the bravery, and the patriotism of the fine young soldiers whose deaths I have witnessed, and others whose funerals I have attended.... When I reflect on not only the willingness but eagerness that so many of them displayed in their earnest desire to defend and serve their country, it is untenable and incomprehensible to me that a man who was not merely unwilling to serve his country, but actually protested against its military, should ever be in the position of Commander-in-Chief of our armed Forces.

I write this declaration not only for the living and future generations, but for those who fought and died for our country. If space and time permitted I would include the names of the ones I knew and fought with, and along with them I would mention my brother Bob, who was killed during World War II and is buried in Cambridge, England (at the age of 23, about the age Bill Clinton was when he was over in England protesting the war). I have agonized over whether or not to submit this statement to the American people. But, I realize that even though I served my country by being in the military for over 32 years, and having gone through the ordeal of months of combat under the worst of conditions followed by years of imprisonment by the Japanese, it is not enough. I'm writing these comments to let everyone know that I love my country more than I do my own personal security and well-being. I will go to my grave loving these United States of America and the liberty for which so many men have fought and died. Because of my poor physical condition this will be my final statement. I will make no further comments to any of the media regarding this issue.

Eugene Holmes


31 posted on 08/27/2005 10:01:31 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: doug from upland

So shouting out in theatres is really just a form of payback? Or is it therapy for shopping trauma?


32 posted on 08/27/2005 10:14:20 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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To: Valpal1
It was just something I have to occasional do if the opportunity is right. It is not a regular practice. I know the history, and seeing the reminder of what the Japanese did to our men was sickening. That was real torture. And then I thought of the bloated, drunk, killer, lifeguard and what he has said about our troops. I couldn't contain myself. His water torture comment was priceless.


33 posted on 08/27/2005 10:59:47 PM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: doug from upland

At the beginning of the movie, I actually shouted out THATS WHY WE NUKED YOU!!


34 posted on 08/28/2005 3:49:45 AM PDT by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: Last Dakotan

I think Col. Tibbits delivered a measure of accountabilty to the Japanese. But, I agree.

Hollywood finds it difficult to give the full truth about our enemies for fear of offending and making them look too bad.


35 posted on 08/28/2005 4:15:39 AM PDT by TruthFactor
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To: doug from upland
Hey, what other FReeper husband has taken his wife on 5+ quilt runs all over hell and back?

What pray tell is a “quilt run”?
36 posted on 08/28/2005 4:23:42 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Timmy
oh, now, come on....that is all dealt with in the prince interview...any adaptation has variances...i didn't think the so-called tension between mucci and prince was anything extraordinary in the movie and their affection for one another was pretty clear.

movies are a funny thing, ya know...i LOVED the lord of the rings trilogy, and yet one interviewer i hear on the radio gave the first film a d, because it was too complicated with too many characters.

imagine...an epic film with too many characters. that film reviewer went on to give cat in the hat a b plus...go figure...

i thought the love story was pretty stupid in the great raid...you never really understood where it came from.

that's hollywood though. did you read that article a week or so ago by the screenwriter confessing he was a republican, and how incredibly ill informed and stupid the people with whom he works are? how they want to pc everything so it fits into their world view? they don't understand true patriotism or nobility.

i loved the great raid....and wish we had more movies like it, flaws and all.

37 posted on 08/28/2005 4:58:22 AM PDT by wildwood
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To: doug from upland

Thanks for speaking up, Doug!


38 posted on 08/28/2005 5:32:28 AM PDT by solzhenitsyn ("Live Not By Lies")
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To: U S Army EOD

BTW, did you know that the Japanese took some 95 civilian contractors at Wake Island and executed all of them after they forced the civilians to make their defenses? Excellent book, "Pacific Alamo," by Wukovits.


39 posted on 08/28/2005 6:08:07 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: doug from upland
Best movie I've seen in years. I highly recommend it.


40 posted on 08/28/2005 6:40:05 AM PDT by pabianice
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To: Texas_Jarhead

Doug ...
Your relationship seems more interesting than Carville and Matalin LOL.


41 posted on 08/28/2005 6:42:22 AM PDT by sono
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To: doug from upland

Doug, you should be writing for The Onion.


42 posted on 08/28/2005 6:46:10 AM PDT by finnigan2
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To: TruthFactor
Hollywood finds it difficult to give the full truth about our enemies for fear of offending and making them look too bad.

Sadly the reviewers that didn't like the movie did so because it was too hard on the Japanese and "just brought up old stereotypes."

43 posted on 08/28/2005 6:50:00 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: RaceBannon

OK, I think we need to go to movies in a clump. It could be darned fun. We might even get tossed out.


44 posted on 08/28/2005 7:26:03 AM PDT by bboop
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To: bboop; All

I can think of a Michael Moore movie we could freep....


45 posted on 08/28/2005 7:30:50 AM PDT by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: LS

I am aware of that story. We had a lady who was captured during WWII in the Dutch East Indies who lived near me. She spent her childhood in a Japanese consentration camp. Her father died working on the "death" railroad. She had some interesting stories about her experiences. She hated the Japanese.


46 posted on 08/28/2005 8:00:05 AM PDT by U S Army EOD (WHEN JANE FONDA STARTS HER TOUR, LET ME KNOW WHERE SHE IS)
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To: doug from upland

Interesting the name Fullbright came up. When the US Capital Building was bombed in 1971, Kennedy and Fullbright did all they could to impede the investigation. They never caught who did it, but I have always felt it was someone connected with VVAW. We knew they had explosives and the will and desire to use them. This took place after Kerry's march on DC and about the same time VVAW conspired to murder the US Senators.


47 posted on 08/28/2005 8:09:18 AM PDT by U S Army EOD (WHEN JANE FONDA STARTS HER TOUR, LET ME KNOW WHERE SHE IS)
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To: wildwood

Read, "Bored of the Rings".


48 posted on 08/28/2005 8:11:39 AM PDT by U S Army EOD (WHEN JANE FONDA STARTS HER TOUR, LET ME KNOW WHERE SHE IS)
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To: doug from upland

Good for you doug.


49 posted on 08/28/2005 8:21:56 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Conservatives are from Earth. Liberals are from Uranus.(c))
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To: Timmy
Good morning.

My wife and I saw it Saturday. I haven't read the books yet but they are on my list.

We loved the movie and I don't care how close to the books the movie makers came. Even the love story was done well, and did not detract from the story of the raid.

As others have said, the use of film of the real POWs and Rangers at the end was incredibly moving.

I felt that the movie was as accurate as the movie makers could make it, enough for me to overlook errors.

I would have liked to have seen a real Black Widow used in the fly over that distracted the Japanese. After I'm finished posting I'll do some research to see if any are still flying.

The sound of Garand clips flying out of weapons was well done, and I liked seeing Benjamin Bratt using an '03 Springfield.

My only complaint is that the theater had the air conditioning set very low. It's harder to immerse yourself in a movie about the Philippines when you are freezing.

This one will be in my library.

Rangers Lead The Way.

Michael Frazier
50 posted on 08/28/2005 8:51:53 AM PDT by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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