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Teaching Science (Another Derbyshire Classic!)
National Review Online ^ | August 30 2005 | John Derbyshire

Posted on 08/30/2005 9:31:31 AM PDT by RightWingAtheist

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To: LaineyDee
"Things die out or go to a lesser form (inter-breeding, etc)....not a higher form. They become defective when the genetics are altered. How could anything evolve in sequence if it couldn't adapt to genetic changes...much less climate and environmental circumstances? I'm not talking about yester-year "theory"... but present-day observations."

Contrary to what you've been told, not all changes to genes make them defective, most mutations are point mutations which very seldom are anything but neutral. The same thing applies to gene duplication. Inter-breeding occurs only in small exclusive populations, and 'defective' genes are the result of a slightly different mechanism. Look up 'Founder Effect'.

Mutations occur most frequently as neutral to the environment. The next most frequent are those that are deleterious to the organism given the environment, or deleterious given any environment. There is a smaller portion that is beneficial given the environment. If you consider that there are, as a rough estimate, 6 or 7 (measured) mutations per person, there will be approx >=36 x 109 mutations in the human population (not necessarily all different mutations). Even assuming a very small percentage of beneficial mutations, its easy to see that many people will have mutations of varying degree that are not neutral or deleterious.

If you want more information, I can go into much more detail.

If you are not referring to mutations but to the 2LoT, living organisms utilize external energy and excrete 'entropy'.

281 posted on 08/30/2005 7:51:33 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: jimmyray
The Papal edicts are meaningless in this debate, especially to a protestant.

Okay. I'll try it another way. Have you seen this or this?

The first link is to a FR thread about the Bishop of Eastern Michigan, the Rt. Rev. Edwin M. Leidel, Jr., (the Episcopal Diocese of Eastern Michigan, that is), who has commended to the clergy of his diocese an internet petition that supports the teaching of evolution in public schools.

While this particular Bishop may be of no interest to you, he's been joined by the Rt. Rev. David Andres Alvarez-Velazquez, Bishop of Puerto Rico; the Rt. Rev. Joe Burnett, Bishop of Nebraska; the Rt. Rev. C. Christopher Epting, Presiding Bishop’s Deputy for Interfaith and Ecumenical Relations; the Rt. Rev. Leo Frade, Bishop of Southeast Florida; the Rt. Rev. Wendell N Gibbs, Jr., Bishop of Michigan; the Rt. Rev. Mark Hollingsworth, Jr., Bishop of Ohio; the Rt. Rev. James Kelsey, Bishop of Northern Michigan; the Rt. Rev. Rustin Kimsey, acting Bishop of Navajoland; the Rt. Rev. Robert Moody, Bishop of Oklahoma; the Rt. Rev. F. Neff Powell, Bishop of Southwestern Virginia; the Rt. Rev. Katharine Jefforts Schori, Bishop of Nevada; and the Rt. Rev. Keith Whitmore, Bishop of Eau Claire.

Just fyi.

282 posted on 08/30/2005 7:51:33 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Doctor Stochastic

I think it's like with Scotch.


283 posted on 08/30/2005 7:52:28 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
I've been told the problem is "nitpicking."

Nits also grow up to have six (rather than four) legs.

284 posted on 08/30/2005 7:54:03 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
While standing or sitting?

A king has to know these things.

285 posted on 08/30/2005 7:55:06 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Ichneumon
Your repost is so old, some of the links no longer work!

Wow, i never realized how close the D. rotundifolia is to the Dionaea muscipula. Any fool can see the one evolved from the other over countless iterations!

I also love the "are related " and "very likely". Mind you, no proof is provided, just a couple of pictures, claims of being genetically related, and a fanciful story on how it all happened.

And the rock bridge. Bodyblow is an understatement - that argument was an uppercut. I see how cellular gating mechanisms are easily explained by getting overly complex first, then losing some complexity. Duh me.

286 posted on 08/30/2005 7:59:13 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: RadioAstronomer
"I'm game! :-)"

Duck, Goose, Deer, Moose, Buffalo or Grouse?

287 posted on 08/30/2005 8:02:13 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: RadioAstronomer; mlc9852

My body is 50 but my mind and the mistakes I make are those of an adolescent.


288 posted on 08/30/2005 8:05:29 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: jimmyray
Any fool can see the one evolved from the other over countless iterations!

Wrong again.

289 posted on 08/30/2005 8:06:04 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
Theophrastus (370-285 BC) did try o classify all plants.

Joseph Pitton Tournefort (1656-1708) had a popular method (introduced the idea of genus).

John Ray (1628-1705) classified 18,000 species of plans and noted that monocots were different from dicots. It took a century for his contribution to be recognized.

Carolus Linnaeus (1707-1778) wrote 14 books about the subject. (Species Plantarum was an attempt to classify everything. He also introduced the two-word version (for example, quercus alba.)

Both Bernard Jussieu (1699-1766) and Antoine Laurent de Jussieu (1748-1836) improved things; they also descriebed the 13 classes of angiosperms.

Augustin Pyrame de Candolle (1778-1841) improved the Jussieu's system and was in tern improved by John Lindley (1799-1865), George Bentham (1800-1844) and Sir Joseph D. Hooker (1817-1911) improved these.

After Darwin, brought a big change; the idea that all present-day species of a given genus had a common ancestor allowed more accurate taxonomies to be developed. There are lots of them: Engler, Bessery, Hutchinson, etc. Evolutionary theory underlies all modern classification systems.

290 posted on 08/30/2005 8:06:29 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: RadioAstronomer

291 posted on 08/30/2005 8:06:51 PM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is not conservative!)
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To: b_sharp

Is that why you spend so much time in the bathroom at Darwin Central?


292 posted on 08/30/2005 8:07:04 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs

Sola Scriptura. Funny thing about these church concessions to "science" is this, if you can't trust the Bible on origins, how can you trust it on salvation?


293 posted on 08/30/2005 8:07:05 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: longshadow
Soon we'll be sliding down the razor blade of life (Ready?)

A reason to wear padded leather pants if I ever heard one.

Thanks...I think.

294 posted on 08/30/2005 8:09:11 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Bite on this one, an apostrophe error you made today, in a post to me:

That was a test to see if the proof-readers at DarwinCentral are slacking off, which obviously they were when I snuck that by them!

295 posted on 08/30/2005 8:10:09 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: jimmyray; Ichneumon
"Your repost is so old, some of the links no longer work!"

Of the 17 links in the two posts to you from Ichneumon, only one doesn't work (Review: Michael Behe's "Darwin's Black Box"). In your dictionary, does *some* mean just one? And did you actually read any of the 16 links that did work before responding or are you just hoping nobody will notice? :)
296 posted on 08/30/2005 8:10:28 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Ichneumon

Damn, you're good!


297 posted on 08/30/2005 8:13:15 PM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

I tried 2, 1 broke, read the other, and posted on it. So how old is the repost, anyway. You've been trotting it out how long now...Have YOU actually read it? Did you follow the *obvious* evolution of the Venus Flytrap?


298 posted on 08/30/2005 8:13:16 PM PDT by jimmyray
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To: jimmyray
Funny thing about these church concessions to "science" is this, if you can't trust the Bible on origins, how can you trust it on salvation?

No problem! The theory of evolution does not address origins. If you were paying attention, you'd have seen this not more than six or seven thousand times since you signed up.

299 posted on 08/30/2005 8:15:39 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: PatrickHenry

300?


300 posted on 08/30/2005 8:19:28 PM PDT by longshadow
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