Posted on 08/31/2005 11:34:55 AM PDT by JZelle
Nationally, the average price for regular gasoline around $2.50 per gallon. Are gasoline prices high? That's not the best way to put that question. It's akin to asking, "Is Williams tall?" The average height of U.S. women is 5 foot four. For men, it's 5 foot 10 inches. Being 6 foot four, I would be tall relative to the general U.S. population. Put me on a basketball court, next to the average NBA player, and I would be short. So when we ask if a price is high or low, we must ask: relative to what? In 1950, a gallon of regular gasoline sold for about 30 cents; today, it's $2.50. Are today's gasoline prices high compared to 1950? Before answering, we have to take into account inflation since 1950. Using my trusty inflation calculator (www.westegg.com/inflation), what cost 30 cents in 1950 costs $2.33 in 2005. In real terms, that means gasoline prices today are only slightly higher, about 8 percent, than in 1950. Up until the recent spike, gasoline prices have been considerably lower than 1950 prices. Some Americans demand the government do something about gasoline prices. Let's think back to 1979 when the government did something. The Carter administration set up price controls. What did we see? Long gasoline lines, if the station hadn't run out of gas. It's estimated Americans used about 150,000 barrels of oil per day idling their cars while waiting in line.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
I guess this depends on where you live, but I believe that in most metropolitan areas, self serve was a reality way before 1979. I got my license in 1977, and I have ALWAYS had to pump my own gas.
HALIBURTON'S FAULT!
"Big Oil has us by the nadz!"
And we have ourselves a laughably "covert" DUmmie.
Relative? Relative to what? Is the color blue actually blue, maybe someone else see's blue but it's green to you but everyone calls it blue because thats how they recognize it. Insane? Thats what I read when I read your post, relative to what?? How about relative to a YEAR ago, to two years ago. Never in history has gas prices gone up this much, this fast, there is nothing to relate it to.
"Okay Newbie, while you might be right to a point, your use of the phrase "Big Oil" reeks of being a troll."
And advocating "Big Socialism" as a cure-all smells just a tad, too.
1. Back in 1979 there was no self-serve. You had to wait for some gas monkey to come gas you up. and ...
2. There are many more gas stations now than 25 years ago. If one doesn't have gas, the fellow a block from you will.
Try studying economics again. The law of supply and demand does not rest upon the identity of the person filling the tank. If prices are capped, supply will shrink. Regardless of how many stations there are or if you have to pump it yourself.
SD
Following your line of reasoning in point 2, do you have a hard time figuring how a check can bounce when you still have checks in the book?
Helloooooo. If the price is capped and suppliers see a loss in profits, there is no incentive to produce low profit gasoline. Why should they wear out old refineries to make no money? Supplies will diminish until the caps are removed. Oil companies will divert oil to more profitable countries. Voila, gas lines again!
And we have another winner...
"Posted by FreeDemm to MurryMom
On News/Activism 07/06/2005 11:53:13 AM PDT · 39 of 44
It's like you read my mind and then wrote it all down. You have said everything I've been saying for years, only much better. I was raised fundie, and as a kid I was taught to help the down and out, to take care of the earth, etc. And then as I grew up, I realized the people who taught me this actually wanted to do the opposite of what they said. I want no part of that. And now, 30 years later, they are even further away from what they preached than they were. All I see now is hatemongering and evilness, far from the loving, helpful, Jesus-like people we were taught to be.
Thanks Murrymom, you are right on."
Really, try studying economics and the 1970s energy crisis. Really. We'll still be here when you are done.
The method of payment and the identity of the pump operator are trivial. The lines were brought about by scarcity and rising prices leading to people topping off their tanks with gas before the prices went up again.
SD
Dr. Williams accounting for inflation is only part of the puzzle. Since we are so much more productive and therefore well-paid than in the '50s, we can AFFORD to pay more for gas. The price of gas in hours worked / gallon has DECLINED substantially in that time.
I haven't seen the math done yet, but I'll bet it is something like 30 minutes of work per gallon in the '50s, compared to 15 minutes of work per gallon now.
The price of gas at a station across from my post office jumped 30 cents in 30 seconds today. Regular unleaded was $2.99 per gallon when I went in to pick up my mail and when I came out the same sign now read $3.29.
We have the highest gas tax in the nation . . .oh joy.
"Price caps now would not cause the kind of lines you had back in '79 for 2 reasons.
1. Back in 1979 there was no self-serve. You had to wait for some gas monkey to come gas you up. and ...
2. There are many more gas stations now than 25 years ago. If one doesn't have gas, the fellow a block from you will.
Most gas stations didn't have convenience stores attached back then either. Look at the delay potential there. Nothing sucks more than waiting to pump gas while the guy in front of you is buying a pack of smokes and a slushee.
Good news. They have relaxed the rules on refineries regarding sulfur and another chemical,(cant recall which). It is in affect until Sept 15th and applies to ALL states.
Bet that will get Robert Kennedy's goat.
Nationwide gas cap is required.
"Nationwide gas cap is required."
I'm very surprised to be seeing this on a purportedly conservative site.
Pick your poison... ration by price with ready availability, or cap the price and ration availability.
I'd rather have ready availability, myself.
What a great reply, very meaningful to the conversation.
Considering that the rationing of availability is already in play, go ahead a cap the price.
"What a great reply, very meaningful to the conversation."
Why, thank you, troll. I mean that in the nicest way possible, of course.
"Considering that the rationing of availability is already in play, go ahead a cap the price."
Other than the possible Colonial Pipeline situation in Atlanta, where are there constraints upon availability now? A price cap will mean widespread shortage, as it always has and always will, unless you're putting a gun to someone's head and forcing them to pump crude, refine it and bring it to market.
Still not believing in the law of supply and demand, are ya?
If the prices were capped, people would wait in line to get gasoline while the gettins good. Price caps will cause shortages. Shortages mean people will be afraid of not being able to get any when they really need it. So they will topp off tanks often. Meaning stations will be crowded and lines will develop.
It's elementary.
Look, I got my license in 1974! I've pumped gas (or had to wait for it to be pumped for me back then) since then. I remember the 1973 crunch and had to drive my way through the 1979 crunch. So don't tell me what the problems were when I LIVED through them.
So why didn't you learn anything back then? I was in my childhood and even I understood that when an item is scarce people hoard it and end up creating a greater demand for it.
SD
People either are ignorant of, or want to repeal, basic economic realities when it becomes inconvenient.
SD
Are you a Sojourner? (www.sojo.net - Marxism with 'Christian' lingo)
Price caps now would not cause the kind of lines you had back in '79 for 2 reasons.
1. Back in 1979 there was no self-serve. You had to wait for some gas monkey to come gas you up. and ...
We've had self serve since the 40s (depending on local laws)
2. There are many more gas stations now than 25 years ago. If one doesn't have gas, the fellow a block from you will.
There are fewer gas stations today than in 1979.
Better a reasonable price and a bit scarce than plentiful and unaffordable!
Are you kidding? You clearly haven't noticed that the slightly confused elderly and highly distracted soccer moms take LONGER to pump gas than would a "gas monkey." Not to mention the teenagers who pull up the the pump and then scrounge around for loose change to pre-pay for their gas with. Or maybe you think the folks who park at the pump, get their gas, and then stroll into the store to pick up their smokes and beer are speeding the process along?
I am really trying hard to figure out just how self-serve has ANYTHING to do with lines. I saw lines last night. SElf serve, pay at the pump. Now, cap the price and they'll institute rations, and everyone will line up on their appointed day. I remember those 70's years too.
2. There are many more gas stations now than 25 years ago. If one doesn't have gas, the fellow a block from you will.
If one doesn't have gas, then for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist. If the gas cannot get here, because they cannot afford to ship it because it costs more to produce than is taken in at the pump, then they won't have it.
Yes you ARE a troll. You and your "FreeDemm" friend.
Nah, you'd also have to start making sense.
Why not try making a logical argument rather than a circular one?
There are more gas stations, more pumps at each station, and (unless you are stuck in New Jersey) you get to pump it yourself--and pay at the pump!! The whole pumping process (no jokes, please) is exponentially quicker than back in the 1970s. There will be some lines in some places, but NOTHING like the nightmare of 1979.
I'll try one more time, too. The technology of the pump and who operates it is trivial. That means it does not matter. That means it is a very small portion of the problem.
Yes, things may move more quickly now than they did in the 70s, but you are missing the point completely. They did not have long lines in the 70s because of poor pump technology or a lack of pumps.
They had long lines in the 70s because of a scarcity of gasoline and the way people react in such situations. Why do you think that the laws of supply and demand no longer apply? Do you think the amount of gasoline available will be the same whether it costs $4/gallon or the gov't mandates it only cost $1?
Do you think if the supply becomes low, people will hoard?
SD
"This forum reminds me of 16th century Spain"
And your posts are a goofy throwback to the malaise of the Carter administration.
Filled up the company car this morning at $2.88/gal. at the local Exxon. Just drove by the same station on my way back and it was $2.95/gal.
A privately owned station about a block away that usually has lower prices if you pay cash has $3.29/gal. posted on their sign. Didn't see any customers though...
I worked at a gas station in 1979. We had several self-serve pumps.
Hate to say it, but I enjoyed working there during the gas crunch. I got to fill-up my tank regardless. Plus, a huge line would form-up overnight in front of our saw horses. Come opening time the next morning, it sounded like the Indy 500 when we went outside to move the horses.
Work until our alotment ran out and then went home.
Hey, I was a teenager. I was allowed to be lazy. :-)
If prices were high because the oil was expensive, I'd have no problem paying $3.00/gallon. That's not the case, however. Prices are high because the market has to buy their product, so the oil companies can force people to buy it.
I support a Windfall Profits Tax. And don't give me the "troll" garbage. I've been here since Sept. 2000. The simple fact of the matter is that these oil companies are on the way to actually derailing the American economy. 100 years ago, when coal strikes threatened the American economy, the military seized the coal mines and ensured the uninterrupted supply of coal. We need to do the same for oil now.
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