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Do you believe in accidentalism? (Creation vs. evolution)
WorldNetDaily ^ | 9/1/05 | William Rusher

Posted on 09/01/2005 6:36:09 PM PDT by wagglebee

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To: bert

Selection:
The act of choosing between 2 or more options, based on a relative quality of a specific trait.

Natural Selection:
Mother Nature sets the parameters.


141 posted on 09/02/2005 12:32:55 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie

Mother nature makes lots and lots of selections. Some survive, most perish. In the battle for survival the weak die, the strong prevail.


142 posted on 09/02/2005 12:39:31 PM PDT by bert (K.E. ; N.P . The wild winds of fortune will carry us onward)
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To: Kevin OMalley

The one big social policy question: What is best for our society?.

So are you saying we should claim to know something no one knows for the good of society? And that you know what that is?

Do you really want to step into that (add your own favorite phrase/word here)?

143 posted on 09/02/2005 4:42:13 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Elsie

Fate of the SOUL, perhaps....

Why is it that Christianity and Islam alone among the worlds religions think they MUST convert everyone else to their religion.

I'll give Christianity this, at least the Christians stopped using torture and murder as a persuader and incentive a few hundred years ago.

144 posted on 09/02/2005 4:48:58 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Donald Meaker

I would love to hear from an ID person, what kind of evidence would decisively invalidate ID.
***I would venture something here. As far as I can tell, much of the current debate has resulted from probabilities of proteins doing their thing. I've seen estimates from 10^40 to 10^260. The theory is that when these chemical reactions take place over long periods of time in large volumes (the entire global ocean content volume as one example), the probabilities come down to something less than impossible. What I would consider decisive evidence of life happening by chance is that the probabilities come down to p=1, using the assumptions that there was perhaps 2 or 3 billion years of window of opportunity and starting from atmospheric models that use air that has been captured in buckyballs from meteorite impacts billions of years ago.


145 posted on 09/02/2005 4:52:20 PM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: ml1954

So are you saying we should claim to know something no one knows for the good of society?
***No. When I review what my post says, it does not say that, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I am here to debate what is best in terms of social policy. Policy gets decided by guys like GWB with inputs from people like you and people like me. Your vote counts the same as one of those jurors on the OJ trial, just like mine does, and those are the people we try to influence with our ideas. I find it interesting that the two best presidents in recent memory were both in agreement on this issue.


146 posted on 09/02/2005 4:57:17 PM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Ichneumon
Yes we have. And as I explained in detail at that time, your position misrepresented the actual state of the field.

I posted a study. The authors of the study spoke in terms of "speculation", "possibilities", and "scenarios". In your rebuttal, you advanced their proposal into something of a "confirmation". If anyone is misrepresenting the actual state of the field with regard to the study I posted, it is you.

Yes they have -- except to those who grasp for untenable excuses to reject what the evidence indicates.

A subtle, yet scathing, emotional appeal. Clever, yes, but it reflects poorly during debate.

Believe what you like, you're obviously going to do so anyway.

I've been rather consistent in voicing the desire to keep an open mind. My English is quite good and I've not overwhelmed you with material. I don't understand how you could have missed that. I will believe what I like, and you will believe what you like -- but we should both strive to keep an open mind, shouldn't we.

For frack's sake, man! If you actually were familiar enough with this field to be able to have an informed opinion on it, you'd know that the PTERV paper you yourself linked was able to distinguish the PTERV source from an ancestral source precisely *because* their fourfold analysis gave characteristically DIFFERENT results for PTERV-1 than had *already* been *previously* found in earlier studies of other ERVs...

"frack"? If you had actually read the study and kept an open mind, you might wonder how humans could possibly be skipped by the PTERV source virus during the Miocene overlap of African apes and humans. Yes, that is a puzzle, but only for a mind open to the possibilities. The answers may even surprise us, up to and including changes to the primate phylogeny. The puzzle may be solved through sincere inquiry, but certainly not through the diatribes you offer.

Please stop misrepresenting this field.

An appeal to agree with you, or pipe down? No, we must keep questioning what we think we know. PTERV1 was not found in humans, orangutans, siamangs, or gibbons. But it was found in chimpanzees, gorillas, baboons, and macaques. Searching the genomes of a subset of apes and monkeys revealed that the retrovirus had integrated into the germline of African great apes and Old World monkeys—but did not infect humans and Asian apes (orangutan, siamang, and gibbon). This undermines the notion that an ancient infection invaded an ancestral primate lineage, since great apes (including humans) share a common ancestor with Old World monkeys.

I don't consider sharing the questions, studies, and proposals of evolutionary scientists misrepresenting things in the least. (I also don't recoil from the scrutiny of their work by the general public.) There are at least two possible explanations for the PTERV conundrum offered. The fact that you fail to even reckognize a conundrum exists surprises me. Perhaps you've been given too much credit. I honestly don't know what the correct resolution is ... yet. But it is exciting, research continues, and our knowledge grows.

I'm not. Stop misrepresenting me, my position, my motivations, and the findings in this field.

Is that what I've done? My intention was to suggest only a fanatic would claim speculation as being factual and that you should not do that. Whether you do, or do not, is entirely up to you -- you represent yourself.
147 posted on 09/02/2005 5:04:13 PM PDT by so_real ("The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.")
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To: Kevin OMalley
Kevin, I have trouble conversing with you because you can't stick to the point and I always have to go back to the previous posts to get back to it. So, here it is... p>

Why should any origins philosophy be taught in a high school science class? The subject is so complex that PhDs are basing entire careers on debating the finer points of it. Teach science in science classes. When someone decides to major in biology or whatever, let them learn about theories of origins at the appropriate time, perhaps in a philosophy class or 2nd year bio class. We don't teach calculus until after 3 years of mastery of algebra.

The subject is so complex

Actually, it's very simple...no one knows... any questions?

The one big social policy question: What is best for our society?. < So are you saying we should claim to know something no one knows for the good of society? And that you know what that is? Do you really want to step into that (add your own favorite phrase/word here)?

148 posted on 09/02/2005 5:08:20 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: Youngblood

I'm sure that everyone else here is as tired of your alzheimerish game as I am. Go back and read the posts that you have so dishonestly responded to and you will find your answer. (but your eyes are not programmed to see it)


149 posted on 09/02/2005 5:11:03 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Atheist and Fool are synonyms; Evolution is where fools hide from the sunrise)
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To: Kevin OMalley
Continuing. Excuse the accidental premature post.

No. When I review what my post says, it does not say that, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I am here to debate what is best in terms of social policy. Policy gets decided by guys like GWB with inputs from people like you and people like me. Your vote counts the same as one of those jurors on the OJ trial, just like mine does, and those are the people we try to influence with our ideas. I find it interesting that the two best presidents in recent memory were both in agreement on this issue.

Back to the point. Should we teach in classes something we don't know is true because we believe it is for the good of society?

I think that's what's called propaganda.

150 posted on 09/02/2005 5:13:51 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: editor-surveyor

Get lost with your dishonesty BS. The only evidence you've given for a global flood is your piece about the adult-juvenile fossil distribution. That's it. If you've got nothing else, don't go crying that others aren't playing fairly.


151 posted on 09/02/2005 5:16:57 PM PDT by Youngblood
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To: editor-surveyor

Get lost with your dishonesty BS. The only evidence you've given for a global flood is your piece about the adult-juvenile fossil distribution. That's it. If you've got nothing else, don't go crying that others aren't playing fairly. I've been civil to you, but I was obviously mistaken.


152 posted on 09/02/2005 5:17:49 PM PDT by Youngblood
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To: Oztrich Boy

"Because unlike televangelists and other popular entertainers, scientists such notorious libertines."

I think you meant scientist take such notorious liberties!


153 posted on 09/02/2005 6:31:55 PM PDT by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: Oztrich Boy

"Julian Huxley never said it "

Dr. Kennedy said, "When I heard him say that, I nearly fell out of my chair." Dr. Kennedy was present when Julian Huxley uttered those words.

The web page you referenced is wrong.


154 posted on 09/02/2005 6:44:21 PM PDT by Fruit of the Spirit
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To: Fruit of the Spirit

"Dr. Kennedy said, "When I heard him say that, I nearly fell out of my chair." Dr. Kennedy was present when Julian Huxley uttered those words. "

Dr. Kennedy was lying. The quote is a gross distortion of an ALDOUS Huxley quote, from a book in 1937. If you read the link completely you would know that.

The facts are there, if you are willing to see them.


155 posted on 09/02/2005 7:08:53 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: blowfish

I notice in your profile that you are a programmer.

Perhaps you don't realize that each cell of your body contains approximately two meters of DNA. If all the DNA in your body was put end to end, it would reach to the sun and back over 600 times (100 trillion times six feet divided by 92 million miles).

Each length of your DNA comprises some 3.2 billion letters of coding, enough to provide 10 to the power of 3,480,000,000 possible combinations......that's a one followed by more than three billion zeroes.

It would take a person typing 60 words per minute, eight hours a day, around 50 years to type the human genome.

For evolution to have created even the simplest form of life would require that multiple complex systems to have come into existence simultaneously.

Created by an accident? I don't think so. We are fearfully and wonderfully made.


156 posted on 09/02/2005 9:05:09 PM PDT by killermosquito (Buffalo is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: killermosquito
Buffalo is what you get when liberalism runs its course

I like buffalo. Especially the ribs. Yum!

157 posted on 09/02/2005 9:14:20 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Is this a good tagline?)
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To: Coyoteman

I've never had Buffalo ribs but our local Buffalos have evolved wings and they are delicious.


158 posted on 09/02/2005 9:24:13 PM PDT by killermosquito (Buffalo is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: Fruit of the Spirit
Dr. Kennedy said, "When I heard him say that, I nearly fell out of my chair." Dr. Kennedy was present when Julian Huxley uttered those words.

What do you mean he was present? That's a meaningless statement, Everybody alive is present somewhere at all times.

159 posted on 09/02/2005 9:24:53 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Multiculturalism is a natural outgrowth of homophobia (fear of the same))
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Aldous & Julian were brothers. Here's what Aldous said:

"Aldous Huxley once let the cat out of the bag when he said, in response to a question about the origins of modernism, that it began not in the minds of intellectuals but in their wills: they needed to come up with an intellectual system that would give them permission to behave licentiously. Darwinism serves a similar function: it gives intellectuals permission to think atheistically, as Richard Dawkins noted in his much-cited comment that evolution 'made it possible to be an intellectually satisfied atheist.'"

http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/evolution/aldous_huxley.html


160 posted on 09/03/2005 10:05:04 AM PDT by Fruit of the Spirit
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