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Terrorist Known Before 9/11, More Say
NY Times ^ | September 2, 2005 | THOM SHANKER

Posted on 09/01/2005 10:22:30 PM PDT by neverdem

WASHINGTON, Sept. 1 - A Defense Department inquiry has found three more people who recall seeing an intelligence briefing slide that identified the ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks a year before the hijackings and terrorist strikes, Pentagon and military officials said Thursday.

But the officials said investigators who reviewed thousands of documents and electronic files from a secret counterterrorism planning unit had not found the chart itself, or any evidence the chart ever existed.

The officials acknowledged that documents and electronic files created by the unit, known as Able Danger, were destroyed under standing orders that limit the military's use of intelligence gathered about people in the United States.

At a Pentagon briefing on Thursday, four intelligence or military officials said investigators had interviewed 80 people who served directly with Able Danger, a team organized to write a counterterrorism campaign plan, or were closely associated with it.

Of those 80, 5 in all now say they saw the chart, including Capt. Scott J. Phillpott of the Navy and Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer of the Army, whose recent comments first brought attention to Able Danger.

At the briefing, the officials said that four of the five recalled seeing a picture of Mohamed Atta, the member of Al Qaeda who planned and carried out the attacks, while one said the chart contained only Mr. Atta's name.

The officials stressed that their inquiry was continuing, and that they still could not definitively prove or disprove whether the unit identified Mr. Atta - and, perhaps, other members of the hijacking team - before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The witnesses "are credible people," said Pat Downs, a senior policy analyst for the under secretary of defense for intelligence. But investigators "can't find the document," Ms. Downs said.

Another official who described the inquiry...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 911; abledanger; atta; clintonfailures; clintonlegacy; clintonscandals; coverup; defensedepartment; hillaryknew; mohammedatta; sept11; terrorism; whitewash
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 09/01/2005 10:22:36 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem
...or any evidence the chart ever existed.

Ummm.. The eyewitness reports are evidence..

2 posted on 09/01/2005 10:24:01 PM PDT by AntiGuv ("Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick)
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To: neverdem
"The officials acknowledged that documents and electronic files created by the unit, known as Able Danger, were destroyed under standing orders that limit the military's use of intelligence..."

Ah yes...a subtle news dump on a Friday printing during a Disaster cycle...

3 posted on 09/01/2005 10:24:36 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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Yeah, people never lie.*

* Note: I am not saying these guys are lying. There has to be more evidence than word of mouth.


4 posted on 09/01/2005 10:26:19 PM PDT by oolatec
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To: AntiGuv; popdonnelly
The eyewitness reports are evidence..

It's a Rovian cabal. Give them polygraphs and find out how many voted for Bush!!

5 posted on 09/01/2005 10:29:45 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
...or any evidence the chart ever existed.

The Clintonistas have been busy little bees.

6 posted on 09/01/2005 10:31:27 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham (Beware the Socialist-Islamist alignment.)
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To: neverdem
secret counterterrorism planning unit had not found the chart itself

Check with Sandy Berger.

7 posted on 09/01/2005 10:32:40 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: neverdem

No body, no crime.


8 posted on 09/01/2005 10:34:10 PM PDT by elfman2 (2 tacos short of a combination plate)
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To: oolatec

there is more. weldon is lobbing back better than mcenroe . they know it is a long match. think of how far the issue has come in a short period of time. weldon gave a good shot to open the round . he got their attention . he is now counterpunching , their shots have no power , they are tentitive because they think there may be something to this. getting the old guard to admit the charges are possible is a big step.


9 posted on 09/01/2005 10:53:17 PM PDT by fantom
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To: neverdem

"Terrorist Known Before 9/11, More Say "
Like Bill Clinton administration before? Yes, I thought so.


10 posted on 09/01/2005 11:08:08 PM PDT by guitarnick40 (When a liberal's in doubt, all they do is scream and shout...)
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To: Southack; wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; ...
Ah yes...a subtle news dump on a Friday printing during a Disaster cycle...

FWIW, it's Friday AM, and the story is listed in the Washington Section of its running homepage, and when you link to the story you find that it has been referenced as "Article in Washington (3 of 4)".

4 in 9/11 Plot Are Called Tied To Qaeda in '00

Four in 9/11 Plot Are Called Tied to Qaeda in '00

4 in 9/11 Plot Are Called Tied To Qaeda in '00

Now with story from Thom Shanker, the Times has a fourth reporter on Able Danger, FWIW. From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

11 posted on 09/01/2005 11:33:38 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
It's a Rovian cabal. Give them polygraphs and find out how many voted for Bush!!

You mean the investigators, right?

Why are the names, named. . .of the witnesses; but the 'investigators'. . .the 'Committee'. . .the 'Officials' remain, just that. It might be noted that they asked for no help; from those involved who just might know how to locate some of this info. . .

Better that Curt Weldon form his own team of experts; and go on a search. This so painfully bogus.

12 posted on 09/01/2005 11:54:10 PM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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To: kcvl
"Check with Sandy Berger."

. ..for sure. . .the 'paper trail' from his pants.

13 posted on 09/01/2005 11:56:43 PM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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To: elfman2
"No body, no crime."

And not a shred of evidence. . .

14 posted on 09/01/2005 11:58:09 PM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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To: fantom
"getting the old guard to admit the charges are possible is a big step."

They are dragging their feet and the truth.

Probably hoping to take a detour through Lake Ponchetrain. . .

15 posted on 09/02/2005 12:03:26 AM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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To: cricket

Ya mean Sandy Burglar right? lol


16 posted on 09/02/2005 12:14:43 AM PDT by guitarnick40 (When a liberal's in doubt, all they do is scream and shout...)
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To: neverdem

I could be knocked over with a hummingbird feather. Really. I could.


17 posted on 09/02/2005 12:15:57 AM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever (Bless those in need this day)
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To: guitarnick40
"Ya mean Sandy Burglar right? lol"

Oops; indeed I did; cannot believe I misspelled his name. . .'for sure' ;^)

18 posted on 09/02/2005 12:21:24 AM PDT by cricket (.Just say NO U.N.)
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To: neverdem

I have the answer, and I'm going to pos.......WHEW! There's a pile of rotten fish somewhere...*kaff, kaff*.

As I was saying *kaff* it was the.....aaargh


19 posted on 09/02/2005 12:50:05 AM PDT by Randy Papadoo ( "The left just doesn't know how to say "Yes"!"......Ann Coulter)
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To: AntiGuv

bttt


20 posted on 09/02/2005 1:32:28 AM PDT by malia (President Bush - a man of strength!! clinton - a paper tiger!!!!!!!)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham; oolatec

This stuff was ordered destroyed. It was apparently well done. This is the only, evidence that is likely to be available - but five persons is clearly sufficient to demonstrate veracity. If we want to nail it down further, the program could probably be reconstituted, and the computer programs re-run, but the cost of that just to demonstrate they're not lying seems pretty foolish to me.

Look: the 'Toon said on 9/11 he was certain OBL and Atta were involved in this. What was his info from? Why did Berger steal Archives documents with marginal notes?

Able Danger pulled this info for them. There is no other plausible way the 'Toon was so certain.


21 posted on 09/02/2005 3:32:29 AM PDT by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Southack

"Ah yes...a subtle news dump on a Friday printing during a Disaster cycle..."

You nailed it. Some of us really are paying attention.


22 posted on 09/02/2005 3:37:44 AM PDT by manwiththehands
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To: neverdem

If the FBI had arrested these guys before 9/11, the ACLU would have had a fit and liberals would be lamenting what a blatantly racist thing it was to arrest these goodhearted immigrants just trying to make their way in America.


23 posted on 09/02/2005 4:06:01 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ("Armed with what? Spitballs?")
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To: neverdem; All

Do you have the link to the story about Curt Weldon making the speech at the Heritage Foundation, I think, where he used the chart with Atta's photo, and info, in it? The chart is supposedly shown in the video of his speech. I'm also wondering if this chart shown in the vidoeo is the orginal that Weldon says he gave to Stephen Hadley, or if it may be the reconstructed copy that was made later with the help of members of the Able Danger team. Thanks.


24 posted on 09/02/2005 4:22:05 AM PDT by LucyJo ("I have overcome the world." "Abide in Me." (John 16:33; 15:4)
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To: LucyJo

From a post regarding video of Weldon's speech containing the chart:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1475109/posts

To: SunnyD1182
Here is a link to the web site.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/2002archive.cfm

The title of the speech is "Breaking the Stovepipes: Improving Intelligence Sharing for Homeland Security" and was given May 23, 2002. The chart is displayed about 33 minutes into the speech.

It sure prompts a lot of questions.



44 posted on 08/29/2005 5:49:27 AM PDT by rwa265 (I was blind, now I see)
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25 posted on 09/02/2005 4:40:08 AM PDT by LucyJo ("I have overcome the world." "Abide in Me." (John 16:33; 15:4)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

"...or any evidence the chart ever existed.
The Clintonistas have been busy little bees."

Paging Sandy Burglar. Will Sandy Burglar please report to the judiciary committee please?




26 posted on 09/02/2005 5:21:15 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (Liberal Talking Point - Bush = Hitler ... Republican Talking Point - Let the Liberals Talk)
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To: Zacs Mom; MeekOneGOP; PhilDragoo; Happy2BMe; potlatch; ntnychik; Smartass; Boazo; Alamo-Girl; ...

bump and ping


27 posted on 09/02/2005 5:54:04 AM PDT by bitt ('But once the shooting starts, a plan is just a guess in a party dress.' Michael Yon)
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To: AFPhys
Why did Berger steal Archives documents with marginal notes?

We already know exactly what Berglar took and why...pay close attention to the last para on the Clarke/Kerrick memo. From Ashcroft's testimony:

The NSC's Millennium After Action Review declares that the United States barely missed major terrorist attacks in 1999 — with luck playing a major role. Among the many vulnerabilities in homeland defenses identified, the Justice Department's surveillance and FISA operations were specifically criticized for their glaring weaknesses. It is clear from the review that actions taken in the Millennium Period should not be the operating model for the U.S. government.

In March 2000, the review warns the prior Administration of a substantial al Qaeda network and affiliated foreign terrorist presence within the U.S., capable of supporting additional terrorist attacks here. [My note: AD info?]

Furthermore, fully seventeen months before the September 11 attacks, the review recommends disrupting the al Qaeda network and terrorist presence here using immigration violations, minor criminal infractions, and tougher visa and border controls.

Post #745

It falls directly into the AD timeline. In that same post, I note that what Sandy Berger stole was the versions of the after action report:

The missing copies, according to Breuer and their author, Richard A. Clarke, the counterterrorism chief in the Clinton administration and early in President Bush's administration, were versions of after-action reports recommending changes following threats of terrorism as 1999 turned to 2000. Clarke said he prepared about two dozen ideas for countering terrorist threats. The recommendations were circulated among Cabinet agencies, and various versions of the memo contained additions and refinements, Clarke said last night.

Therefore, they were never provided to the Commission, as evidenced by the Commission Report footnotes (#769):

46. NSC email, Clarke to Kerrick,“Timeline,”Aug. 19, 1998; Samuel Berger interview (Jan. 14, 2004). We did not find documentation on the after-action review mentioned by Berger. On Vice Chairman Joseph Ralston’s mission in Pakistan, see William Cohen interview (Feb. 5, 2004). For speculation on tipping off the Taliban, see, e.g., Richard Clarke interview (Dec. 18, 2003).

And to what does footnote (46) refer? On p. 117, Chapter 4, we find this:

Later on August 20, Navy vessels in the Arabian Sea fired their cruise missiles. Though most of them hit their intended targets, neither Bin Ladin nor any other terrorist leader was killed. Berger told us that an after-action review by Director Tenet concluded that the strikes had killed 20–30 people in the camps but probably missed Bin Ladin by a few hours. Since the missiles headed for Afghanistan had had to cross Pakistan, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was sent to meet with Pakistan’s army chief of staff to assure him the missiles were not coming from India. Officials in Washington speculated that one or another Pakistani official might have sent a warning to the Taliban or Bin Ladin. (46)
How about that? How many times have we heard Clinton say that he missed Bin Ladin by just a few hours? Yet the after-action report is missing, so the Commission relied on Sandy Berger's testimony.

Then the Clarke/Kerrick memo peaked my interest and I found this (#784):

Clarke was nervous about such a mission because he continued to fear that Bin Ladin might leave for someplace less accessible. He wrote Deputy National Security Advisor Donald Kerrick that one reliable source reported Bin Ladin's having met with Iraqi officials, who "may have offered him asylum." Other intelligence sources said that some Taliban leaders, though not Mullah Omar, had urged Bin Ladin to go to Iraq. If Bin Ladin actually moved to Iraq, wrote Clarke, his network would be at Saddam Hussein's service, and it would be "virtually impossible" to find him. Better to get Bin Ladin in Afghanistan, Clarke declared.

Kerry and crew could not afford to have this info come out before the election.
28 posted on 09/02/2005 6:33:15 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: neverdem

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1342023/posts
The Clintons Terrorist Ties



Excerpt:

Emerson: Clintons Courted Pro-Terror Islamic Militants

"The fact is President Clinton and his wife openly welcomed and embraced militant Islamic groups to the White House routinely for five years..."

During the Clinton years, Arafat enjoyed unparalleled Oval Office access, visiting the White House more often than any other foreign leader.

Fund raisers kept secret from the press with groups known for their pronounced pro-terrorist sympathies, including one $50,000 affair at the Washington, D.C., home of Yasser Arafat crony Hani Masri.

A $1,000 donation from Abdurahman Alamoudi, an official with the American Muslim Council, who was feted by the Clintons and later boasted, "We are the ones who went to the White House and defended what is called Hamas."

There was "...one particularly suspicious Washington, D.C., fundraiser that Mrs. Clinton's 2000 Senate campaign had tried to conceal from the press.

"The May 2000 event, held at the mansion of Yasser Arafat crony Hani Masri, raised $50,000..."

Bin Laden-gate Witness Dares Dems: Depose Me on Clinton 9-11 Cover-Up

According to Mansoor Ijaz, "The man who negotiated a deal for Osama bin Laden's extradition to the United States six years ago..."

"The former Clinton negotiator described the missed opportunity to get bin Laden and fingered former National Security Advisor Sandy Berger and former Attorney General Janet Reno as having key roles in the deadly foul-up.

Bin Laden-gate Accuser: Ex-Clinton Officials Trying to Silence Me

"...the Clinton administration turned down three separate offers to extradite Osama bin Laden to the U.S. during the late 1990s."

"...Ijaz also charged that Clinton officials deliberately went out of their way to stifle FBI anti-terrorism probes.

"The FBI, in 1996 and 1997, had their efforts to look at terrorism data and deal with the bin Laden issue overruled every single time by the State Department, by Susan Rice and her cronies, who were hell-bent on destroying the Sudan..."

According to the New York Post's Deborah Orin, Clinton said terrorist kingpin bin Laden and his murderous underlings "...are good, they are uncompromising."

In December 2001, federal agents seized the assets of The Holy Land Foundation, which bills itself as the nation's largest Muslim charity, after announcing it had been caught funneling funds to the notorious Palestinaian terrorist group Hamas.

But, according to U.S. News & World Report's "Washington Whispers":

"FBI veterans tell our David E. Kaplan that they were ready to move on the group back in 1997 but were stopped by top officials at Justice and the Clinton White House."


Snip:

The Tale of an American Terrorist Network

"The Saudi relationship is so sensitive that, for more than a decade, federal prosecutors and counter-terrorist agents have been ordered to shut down their investigations for reasons of foreign policy."

"Federal agents in Tampa, who had known about the Saudi-Sami Al-Arian connection since 1990, were ordered to drop the investigation in 1995. The Saudi influence buying machine had effectively shut down any threat of criminal prosecution."

"...the American public may finally begin to learn why the Saudi-Sami Al-Arian terror networks went untouched for so long. It wasn’t an intelligence failure, it was a foreign policy failure. The orders were not to embarrass the Saudi government. Year after year, the cover-up orders came from the State Department and the White House. The CIA, the FBI and the Justice Department just did what they were told."


Snip:

Additional evidence obtained under the Freedom of Information Act reveals Interpol's efforts to apprehend two additional Oklahoma City bombing suspects and information in the agency's files associating Ramzi Youssef with the attack.

The written and verbal confession of Abdul Hakim Murad, obtained by the FBI three months after the Murrah building bombing, that Ramzi Youssef's "liberation army" was responsible for the bombing.

Pentagon assertions that McVeigh was an Iraqi agent and had collected Iraqi telephone numbers prior to his arrest.


Snip:

"An al-Qaeda conspirator who was involved in a plot investigators now say was an early blueprint for the 9-11 attacks had also claimed credit for the Oklahoma City bombing seven years ago, according to an FBI 302 witness statement revealed by Insight Magazine on Monday."



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1342023/posts?page=111#111

Excerpt:

Whereas Saddam emerged from his confrontation with Mr. Bush weakened and vulnerable, after eight years of Mr. Clinton his position grows stronger by the day. As the end of Bill Clinton's two terms in office approaches, Saddam Hussein can take justifiable satisfaction at having made significant progress toward his ultimate objective: reversing the results of the Persian Gulf War.

Snip:

The second has been the failure to implement Congress's Iraq Liberation Act - which was supposed to fund the overthrow of the dictator by native opposition groups. President Bill Clinton signed the 1998 act which was supposed to invest $97 million in this project. Apparently only $20,000 has been disbursed to the opposition groups - enough to buy some basic office supplies. The London office of the Iraqi National Congress, the main democratic opposition group, shut down at the end of last year...



29 posted on 09/02/2005 6:47:48 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: neverdem

Well, that's six people who saw Atta on the chart. Some genius at DOD probably told the staff to shred all copies of the chart.


30 posted on 09/02/2005 7:31:12 AM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: neverdem

By the way, it was the Times that gave the editorial signal yesterday to start dumping on Bush for the hurricane.


31 posted on 09/02/2005 7:32:20 AM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: Southack; AntiGuv; neverdem

The FBI "lost" the steel front doors of Mount Carmel (Waco) which would have shown the direction of the bullet holes.

I guess the door didn't exist, then.


32 posted on 09/02/2005 7:45:02 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: popdonnelly

The charts are in that giant federal warehouse between the Arc of the Covenant (Indiana Jones), and the steel front door from Mount Carmel.


33 posted on 09/02/2005 7:47:02 AM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Calpernia
President Bill Clinton signed the 1998 act which was supposed to invest $97 million in this project. Apparently only $20,000 has been disbursed to the opposition groups - enough to buy some basic office supplies.
======================================================

He was too busy defending himself from the evil Republicans who planted the intern and forced him into sex. See, it's easy to explain.

34 posted on 09/02/2005 7:52:00 AM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: doug from upland

I would love to know what happened to the $97 million dollars.

Also, when do you need the music by?


35 posted on 09/02/2005 8:09:52 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Calpernia

If you have something done, let's hear it so I can play it for the decision makers.


36 posted on 09/02/2005 8:11:52 AM PDT by doug from upland (The Hillary documentary is coming -- INDICTING HILLARY)
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To: doug from upland

Getting it recorded to send is the trick we are trying to overcome :P

Might have to mail you a cassette. Non studio quality.


37 posted on 09/02/2005 8:17:06 AM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: popdonnelly

I want to know why we haven't heard from Steve Hadley -- Rep. Weldon says he gave the chart to Hadley a few weeks after 9/11.... either Hadley still has the chart or he does not. Why won't some media nail down the issue of what happened to that copy of the chart????


38 posted on 09/02/2005 8:23:51 AM PDT by Enchante
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To: oolatec
"There has to be more evidence than word of mouth." Perhaps someone ought to search Sandy Berger's pant and socks, again!
39 posted on 09/02/2005 8:30:05 AM PDT by Zacs Mom (Proud wife of a Marine! ... and purveyor of "rampant, unedited dialogue")
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


40 posted on 09/02/2005 8:42:11 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Southack


I still think Sandy Berger is in on this Able danger thing up to his belt buckle. (pun intended)


41 posted on 09/02/2005 8:53:58 AM PDT by Cindy_Cin
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To: popdonnelly; Southack; El Gato; Travis McGee; Squantos; SunkenCiv
By the way, it was the Times that gave the editorial signal yesterday to start dumping on Bush for the hurricane.

Who was surprised with Waiting for a leader from the NY Times Editorial Board? It was so typical that it really wasn't worth posting just to mock it. At least the supposedly "paper of record" had the story visible on its homepage when I saw it. Now it's the first story "below the fold" of its Washington section's webpage.

Now is the time to be on alert for other stories being covered below the radar of Katrina's aftermath like F.B.I. Abandons Disputed Test for Bullets From Crime Scenes, which is "above the fold" of the Washington section webpage. BTW, just how can the FBI lose the front door from its Mount Carmel, Waco assault?

42 posted on 09/02/2005 10:09:13 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem; Berosus; blam; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Do not dub me shapka broham; ...

"a year before the hijackings and terrorist strikes"? Gosh, I thought the Clinton administration was too busy creating a list of criminals to pardon on the way out the door, and opening up the Strategic Reserve to reduce the $2 a gallon gas price to notice anything irrelevant like terrorist team leaders. I wonder, what *was* down in Sandy Berger's pants?

FLIGHT 77 - More 9/11 Revisionists at Work!
08/31/05 | vanity
Posted on 08/31/2005 9:05:18 AM PDT by genefromjersey
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1474111/posts


43 posted on 09/02/2005 10:19:36 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: SunkenCiv
"I wonder, what *was* down in Sandy Berger's pants?"

Really! Somehow, I don't think it was the effects of the Metamucil finally working!
44 posted on 09/02/2005 10:38:34 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (tired of all the shucking and jiving)
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To: oolatec
* Note: I am not saying these guys are lying. There has to be more evidence than word of mouth.

Was the evidence ever found on Sandy Burglar? No! Was he convicted? Yes! Word of mouth from the librarians worked for that scenario! The chart was probably one of the items Burglar took and it has now been destroyed!

45 posted on 09/02/2005 11:37:39 AM PDT by Bushbacker1 (Kill 'em til they're dead! Then, kill 'em again!)
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To: neverdem
The witnesses "are credible people," said Pat Downs, a senior policy analyst for the under secretary of defense for intelligence. But investigators "can't find the document," Ms. Downs said.

Anyone look in Sandy Burger's pants? Or in Joe Wilson's wife's purse?

46 posted on 09/02/2005 2:12:04 PM PDT by BushisTheMan
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To: bitt

Bump!


47 posted on 09/02/2005 2:47:06 PM PDT by JLO
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To: neverdem

Oh gee, more authoritative witnesses to the able-danger note. Has John Podhoretz (who I like and respect as a usually excellent journalist) issued his apology yet to Congressman whats-his-name ?


48 posted on 09/02/2005 7:01:37 PM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: oolatec
There has to be more evidence than word of mouth.

Eyewitness accounts are not "word of mouth". "Word of mouth" that is second hand reports, would be called hearsay evidence, but eyewitness accounts, while often wrong, are admissible in court. The that that we have multiple eyewitnesses is very good corroboration. In intelligence circles we would say the information was confirmed by multiple sources (as long as they either had no direct connection with each other, or each were providing first hand evidence).

What you are asking for, I presume, is *physical evidence". The problem with physical evidence is that it can destroyed, often deliberately.

49 posted on 09/02/2005 7:45:05 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: elfman2
No body, no crime

They wish. Five people see you throw someone into the sea and then shoot them, I guarantee that you will be convicted of murder.

50 posted on 09/02/2005 7:48:28 PM PDT by El Gato
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