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WSJ: The Battle of New Orleans - Even in America, civil order is more fragile than we think.
Wall Street Journal ^ | September 2, 2005 | Editorial

Posted on 09/02/2005 5:23:21 AM PDT by OESY

...Of all the bad news from New Orleans, the most disturbing has been the reports of spreading disorder, with looting, marauding gangs and even sniper fire at helicopters and rescue workers. Americans sometimes expect their government to do far too much....

One reason for the New Orleans breakdown is the size of the calamity, whose growing severity caught nearly everyone by surprise. Louisiana National Guard troops that were deployed initially for rescue and relief efforts weren't available for the more basic duties of public security. The Federal Emergency Management Agency is also geared to providing relief, not order, and only yesterday did the federal government begin to focus on the potential anarchy. Among our political leaders, only Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour seemed to appreciate the genuine risk of disorder, with his early warnings that looters would not be given the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, the allegation that enough National Guard troops aren't available because many are deployed in Iraq doesn't hold up under scrutiny. The Louisiana Guard has something like 3,500 men and women deployed in Iraq, but that leaves another 8,000 or so troops available for post-Katrina duty, and neighboring states undamaged by the hurricane have still others who could be called upon. All told, the Pentagon now estimates that 30,000 National Guard troops will be deployed along the Gulf coast, and another 3,000 regular Army soldiers to pursue the armed gangs on the loose. Our advice is: Do whatever it takes.

One frequent reaction...: New Orleans is typical of Third World countries, something that was thought could never happen in America. This happens to overlook a fair chunk of U.S. history... including riots and violence. But it is also a sign of complacency born of prosperity and the resilience of our legal and civic institutions....

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: Louisiana; US: Mississippi
KEYWORDS: anarchy; barbour; hurricane; katrina; looters; neworleans
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1 posted on 09/02/2005 5:23:21 AM PDT by OESY
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To: OESY

The inner-cities in every major US city are just like NO - potential powder kegs with third-world conditions. This is not new - what is new is the lack of civil control that allows that element to run amok. It would have been the same here where I am in Atlanta. The responsible people got out of Dodge and left the helpless with the thugs.


2 posted on 09/02/2005 5:27:11 AM PDT by over3Owithabrain
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To: OESY

If I understand correctly, Martial Law has been imposed on LA. It's time to exterminate these cockroach thugs and gangs out as if they were Taliban or Al Qaeda


3 posted on 09/02/2005 5:27:35 AM PDT by stm
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To: OESY

"Louisiana National Guard troops that were deployed initially for rescue and relief efforts weren't available for the more basic duties of public security"

All citizens caught shooting at relief helpers or raping or battering other disaster survivors need to be immediately rounded up and put in "PRISON CAMPS".

They are the equivelant of war time enemy combatants and should now be treated and arrested as such for obstructing search, rescue and relief efforts.


4 posted on 09/02/2005 5:28:04 AM PDT by SunnySide (Ephes2:8 ByGraceYou'veBeenSavedThruFaithAGiftOfGodSoNoOneCanBoast)
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To: OESY

"This happens to overlook a fair chunk of U.S. history... including riots and violence."

Riots - and who starts riots? I lived in Miami during the riots and they weren't Cubans out there.


5 posted on 09/02/2005 5:28:17 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: OESY
After this week and amid the continuing threat of terrorism, our political leaders at all levels are going to have to think harder about how to maintain order in the next crisis.

Don't wait so long to shoot somebody...

6 posted on 09/02/2005 5:28:54 AM PDT by sit-rep (If you acquire, hit it again to verify...)
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To: SunnySide

Yes but Prison Camps Where? What city and state?


7 posted on 09/02/2005 5:30:19 AM PDT by stopem
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To: over3Owithabrain
D E T R O I T
8 posted on 09/02/2005 5:30:29 AM PDT by johnny7 (“And now, little man, I give the watch to you.”)
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To: OESY

Bleeding heart liberals, why doesn't katy and matt offer their HOMES to these people?


9 posted on 09/02/2005 5:31:42 AM PDT by stopem
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To: stm

If liberals can't portray diversity by the varying ethnic makeup of their criminal masses, they simply reflect it in their stolen loot.


10 posted on 09/02/2005 5:33:14 AM PDT by chambley1
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To: OESY

The population of New Orleans is 67.25% black. WSJ and the MSM in general would be the 1st to scream racism if law & order was enforced.


11 posted on 09/02/2005 5:33:52 AM PDT by hflynn ( Soros wouldn't make any sense even if he spelled his name backwards)
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To: SunnySide

Forget prison camps...summary execution on the spot.....

Tie them high on the nearest streetlight and hang a cardboard sign around their neck that say's "LOOTER"....

15 or 20 of them posted around town and you will think your in church for the rest of the evacuation....

NeverGore :^)


12 posted on 09/02/2005 5:34:12 AM PDT by nevergore (“It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.”)
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To: over3Owithabrain
And this morning a petrol storage facility exploding.

Could be spontaneous but I have suspicions.

Time is long past to clean out the thugs.

Don't use the police, use the NG, kick a$$.
Introduce the thugs to the 50 BMG.
13 posted on 09/02/2005 5:34:56 AM PDT by Vinnie
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To: OESY

At first, I could understand the chaos due to the hurricane but now it's getting ridiculous. After hearing the Mayor of New Orleans on the radio, he's clearly incompetent. If I were President Bush I'd fly into NO and land at the Superdome along with several Chinooks of armed NG troops. Announce that, "I don't know what's wrong with the government down here but we're going to clean up the mess now" then start establishing secure zones for the decent folks. Obviously, someone needs to take charge of the situation.


14 posted on 09/02/2005 5:35:10 AM PDT by mikegi
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To: OESY
I recently saw the movie Cinderella Man and commented to my wife of how the people were living during the depression. i told her that if those conditions hit us now there would be killing and raping and your kids could definitely not play in the streets. Now New Orleans confirms that.
15 posted on 09/02/2005 5:35:43 AM PDT by normy (Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.)
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To: SunnySide

Yes, they should be in prison camps. How about Gitmo?


16 posted on 09/02/2005 5:36:19 AM PDT by bboop
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To: over3Owithabrain
Statement: "...what is new is the lack of civil control that allows that element to run amok..."

Response: Or perhaps the "element" lacks self control?

17 posted on 09/02/2005 5:37:47 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: OESY
"... the most disturbing has been the reports of spreading disorder, with looting, marauding gangs and even sniper fire at helicopters and rescue workers."

The worthless social debris that are perpetrating this insult to American society generally and literally shaming us before the world, ought to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Remember..remember the film of Londoners digging out after the Blitz?? What am I saying??During the Blitz, while it was going on, one chaotic, destructive and tragic day after another and with almost no resources but survivors' bare hands, the population ALL pitched in and set themselves and their city as right as they could make it in the circumstances. Think there was any of this horse s&^% and civil disorder going on concurrently with the bombing??? Think any single Londoner took unfair advantage of the situation to rob, pillage or shame others? I am disgusted with the looters in NO and ashamed of them as Americans. This is what we look like to the world. Most Americans are made of sterner stuff than that but the world will remember only that. Like the world remembers the strength, civic pride and self-respect even in disaster displayed by Londoners in the Blitz!
18 posted on 09/02/2005 5:39:41 AM PDT by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: bboop
they should be in prison camps. How about Gitmo?

That's not fair on the people already there. They would feel degraded to have to mix with people who loot their fellow citizens in hospital beds.

19 posted on 09/02/2005 5:39:50 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: mikegi
start establishing secure zones for the decent folks

YES!

20 posted on 09/02/2005 5:40:42 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: over3Owithabrain

You've got that right; I'm here in Atlanta with you. It would be the same here or in any other major metropolitan city with a great deal of underclass in its environs. I suspect that the Atlanta city leadership would prove themselves to be equally incompetent.


21 posted on 09/02/2005 5:41:42 AM PDT by Juana la Loca
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To: OESY
Some people are not tolerating it. Not sure if this has been altered or not.......

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
22 posted on 09/02/2005 5:44:13 AM PDT by stm
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To: OESY
...Of all the bad news from New Orleans, the most disturbing has been the reports of spreading disorder, with looting, marauding gangs and even sniper fire at helicopters and rescue workers. Americans sometimes expect their government to do far too much....

And yet the gun control crowd would have you believe that if responsible, law-abiding citizens were disarmed, they could rely on local police and state authorities to protect them from the same type of thuggery and pillage that is now rampant throughout New Orleans. I think the lie has finally been put to this myth, especially since I just saw a report that a goodly portion of NO's police force has turned their badges and walked away from their jobs, probably to join the looters. Consequently, this whole sorry state of affairs has reinforced my determination to keep my own firearms close at hand and in good working order and my home ammo stocks full in the event of some other national disaster in the future that might impact close my area.

23 posted on 09/02/2005 5:44:22 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

The "element" has been brought up on a steady diet of thuggish rap videos, scorn for decency and law, and glorification of violence (including rape) and getting "stuff," such as BMW's and $200 sneakers, by any means possible, always with the implication that you are somehow owed this "stuff" by society. They're just putting into practice what they learned so well.


24 posted on 09/02/2005 5:45:49 AM PDT by livius
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To: SMARTY

People remember NYC post 911. NO is not NYC.

10 years from now more people will remember NYC than this hurricaine.

These people have been given pretty much all they have by the government. Now that the local arm of the infrastructure that supports them is gone, they have no idea what to do.

What happens when a kindergarten teacher leaves the room?


25 posted on 09/02/2005 5:47:10 AM PDT by Conservomax (There are no solutions, only trade-offs.)
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To: OESY

This is just another reason to own a (several) firearms. Civil order is more fragile than most think and when it fails, the unarmed will be subject to the tender mercies of the worst of us.

The wisdom of our Founding Fathers reveals itself again. The 2nd amendment is one of the strongest pillars of our liberty.


26 posted on 09/02/2005 5:48:37 AM PDT by ElTianti
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To: ElTianti

"This is just another reason to own a (several) firearms. Civil order is more fragile than most think and when it fails, the unarmed will be subject to the tender mercies of the worst of us."

Exactly! A few guns, and one hell of a lot of ammo!


27 posted on 09/02/2005 5:50:30 AM PDT by RavenATB (Patton was right...)
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To: ElTianti

"This is just another reason to own a (several) firearms. Civil order is more fragile than most think and when it fails, the unarmed will be subject to the tender mercies of the worst of us."

Exactly! A few guns, and one hell of a lot of ammo!


28 posted on 09/02/2005 5:50:33 AM PDT by RavenATB (Patton was right...)
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To: OESY; All
Hurricane shopping list:

1. Food
2. Water
3. Generator
4. Fuel
5. AMMO
29 posted on 09/02/2005 5:51:29 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Juana la Loca
I suspect that the Atlanta city leadership would prove themselves to be equally incompetent.

They already did - remember the courthouse shootings recently? The APD ran around like headless chickens, the leadership slept at the wheel, and a murderer ran amok all day until a civilian in the 'burbs turned him in. Affirmative action government doesn't work.
30 posted on 09/02/2005 5:51:30 AM PDT by over3Owithabrain
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To: OESY; All
Hurricane shopping list:

1. Food
2. Water
3. Generator
4. Fuel
5. AMMO
31 posted on 09/02/2005 5:52:02 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: over3Owithabrain

The MSM will not report the truth.

Democrats provide issues not solutions.


32 posted on 09/02/2005 5:53:02 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: SunnySide
All citizens caught shooting at relief helpers or raping or battering other disaster survivors need to be immediately rounded up and put in "PRISON CAMPS".

Maybe imprisoned for battery, but otherwise I disagree. Three hots and a cot for shooting and rape? Nope. They should be summarily shot.

You need harsh deterrents to rein this in. It is time to quit pandering to the most violent of the criminal element.

33 posted on 09/02/2005 5:55:05 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.)
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To: SunnySide
"All citizens caught shooting at relief helpers or raping or battering other disaster survivors need to be immediately rounded up and put in "PRISON CAMPS"."

I can't agree. They need to be SHOT ON SIGHT, not "put in PRISON CAMPS". The ones that go into the prison camps are the looters.

34 posted on 09/02/2005 5:57:11 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
I just saw a report that a goodly portion of NO's police force has turned their badges and walked away from their jobs,

Where was this report. It explains a lot, doesn't it.

35 posted on 09/02/2005 5:57:22 AM PDT by chiller (DONE: Gore, taxes, terrorism,Kerry, Old Media. TO DO: Judges, Tort, IRS, Soc.Sec.,borders..)
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To: livius
The "element" has been brought up on a steady diet of thuggish rap videos, scorn for decency and law, and glorification of violence (including rape)

When that earthquake - followed by snow blizzards - destroyed the city of Bam in Iran, there was a lot of initial chaos and even some looting.

But the Iranians put a stop to that very fast, and there was a huge effort by volunteers and rescuers. The survivors were quickly taken elsewhere, and there were no women raped on the streets or anything like that. Not at all.

36 posted on 09/02/2005 5:57:55 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: OESY
I have a buddy who grew up in NO. We were at lunch a couple of days ago and we saw the crowds starting to gather around the Superdome. He predicted exactly what would happen.

I was watching Houston TV this AM and a black gentleman that was just transported from the Superdome in NO to Houston said something like "I can't believe how our people acted. I'm so disappointed. We need men to stand up and act like men! But they didn't!"

37 posted on 09/02/2005 5:58:06 AM PDT by isthisnickcool (If fire fighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime what do freedom fighters fight?)
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To: over3Owithabrain

Many who stayed were HOPING for exactly this type of situation. It is a criminal's paradise; little law enforcement and no armed citizens to stop them.


38 posted on 09/02/2005 5:58:10 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: stopem

Yes but Prison Camps Where? What city and state?

my vote is for
Maricopa County, Arizona
with Sheriff Joe Arpaio in charge


39 posted on 09/02/2005 5:58:27 AM PDT by Phrostie
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To: ElTianti
Some lessons learned.

40 posted on 09/02/2005 5:58:47 AM PDT by usastandsunited
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To: SunnySide
All citizens caught shooting at relief helpers or raping or battering other disaster survivors need to be immediately rounded up and put in "PRISON CAMPS". They are the equivelant of war time enemy combatants and should now be treated and arrested as such for obstructing search, rescue and relief efforts.

We can't even treat wartime combatants as wartime combatants unless their ACLU lawyer loses their appeal in Federal District Court. Internment camps for the lawless are what is needed but it's not going to happen. Today all the media spin is that the delay in providing relief produced this lawlessness. No willinglness to oepnly admit that the liberal society has nurtured a defectively sociopathic dependent underclass where the best of the able bodied sit on a highway and wait for someone to come get them instead of walking away from the flood, and the worst prey on the weak and feel justified for doing so.
41 posted on 09/02/2005 5:59:51 AM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: usastandsunited

Sadly, the only thing you can really count upon is yourself and your loved ones.

Government cannot protect you.
Police cannot protect you.

Your personal firearms can protect you.


42 posted on 09/02/2005 6:01:57 AM PDT by ElTianti
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To: OESY

"NIGHTMARE OF ROBBERY, FILTH, DEATH & RAPE IN SUPERDOME"

That was a headline in the NY Post.

The headline could have read; "NIGHTMARE OF ROBBERY, FILTH, DEATH & RAPE IN NEW ORLEANS", or "NIGHTMARE OF ROBBERY, FILTH, DEATH & RAPE IN DETROIT" etc., but then no one would have paid attention.

This is all magnified because it happened all under one roof and Katrina has our attention. But this behavior is typical of NOLA and many inner cities on a daily basis. The gangstas, thugs, druggies, and general riff raff of many inner city denizens flocked into the SuperBowl and turned it into a ghetto overnight. What's new?


43 posted on 09/02/2005 6:02:05 AM PDT by SeaBiscuit (God Bless all who defend America and Friends, the rest can go to hell.)
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To: ElTianti
My gun cabinet stands ready at an instant's notice...

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
44 posted on 09/02/2005 6:05:04 AM PDT by stm
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To: stopem

Start with Martha's Vineyard.


45 posted on 09/02/2005 6:05:20 AM PDT by takbodan (AP Help)
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To: ElTianti
Civil order is more fragile than most think and when it fails, the unarmed will be subject to the tender mercies of the worst of us.

The wisdom of our Founding Fathers reveals itself again. The 2nd amendment is one of the strongest pillars of our liberty.

B-U-M-P!

46 posted on 09/02/2005 6:06:06 AM PDT by shezza (God Bless Our Troops)
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To: Conservomax
You're right! When you have a needle in your arm called 'the Government' then you cannot function without your fix. Liberal social policies created the monster and Liberals will be first and loudest in criticizing the Government in it's failure to deliver yet more to them in this emergency and more quickly than circumstances will permit. Living like this with no sense of how to look after yourself and going on in this childlike delusion that 'some one else' will look after me and my needs is a dangerous and precarious place to put yourself. In all the photos I see of people sitting around (able-bodied young people) surrounded by trash and debris, I did not see one person bend over to pick up the trash or move anything out of the way. What??? Just sit there on a heap of rubble and wait for 'someone else' to take you away and clean it up so you can return later??? They need to get off their a^%$s and clean up their city instead of standing around like that.
47 posted on 09/02/2005 6:06:18 AM PDT by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
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To: stm

I'm jealous!


48 posted on 09/02/2005 6:06:32 AM PDT by ElTianti
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To: nevergore

I heard that 8 looters were shot and killed in Metairie overnight.


49 posted on 09/02/2005 6:08:00 AM PDT by SuziQ
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To: takbodan

Now there's an idea and a darn good one ;)

Anyone notice that none of the dem libs are offering to help or to house these people???


50 posted on 09/02/2005 6:08:04 AM PDT by stopem
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