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‘One John Wayne dude’ tackles relief efforts - Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré (mayor Nagin term for him)
Stars and Stripes ^ | September 4, 2005 | Stars and Stripes

Posted on 09/04/2005 1:13:53 AM PDT by Former Military Chick

The man in charge of coordinating the military’s hurricane response is a Louisiana native with previous experience in flood disasters who already has received high marks from one state official for his efforts.

Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré, the man in charge of U.S. Northern Command’s Joint Task Force Katrina, is a former 2nd Infantry Division commander.

Honoré, from Lakeland, La., led 2nd ID in South Korea from October 2000 until July 2002.

During that time he dealt with monsoon-season flooding on many Area I installations and oversaw flood prevention measures put in place following a disastrous 1998 flood that caused more than $150 million in damage to Area I bases.

Honoré is a man who announces his presence with authority.

In an interview with local WWL radio, New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin was expressing dismay at the lack of federal help for his city, but said of Honoré:

“I give the president some credit on this, he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is Gen. Honoré, and he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussin’ and people started movin’!

“And he’s getting some stuff done,” Nagin said. “They ought to give that guy — if they don’t want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done.”

Honoré was commissioned a second lieutenant of infantry in 1971. He also has served as commander, 4th Battalion, 16th Infantry Brigade, 1st Infantry Division, Germany.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: honore; hurricane; katrina; military; nationalguard
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In an interview with local WWL radio, New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin was expressing dismay at the lack of federal help for his city, but said of Honoré:

“I give the president some credit on this, he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is Gen. Honoré, and he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussin’ and people started movin’!

“And he’s getting some stuff done,” Nagin said. “They ought to give that guy — if they don’t want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done.”

The Mayor said from his phone, well, well, he needs to get off his butt, quit whining and start leading.

Of course I prefer he get out of dodge, he IS NOT a leader.

1 posted on 09/04/2005 1:13:57 AM PDT by Former Military Chick
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To: Former Military Chick
With all due respect to the Lt. Gen.,


2 posted on 09/04/2005 1:19:10 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: Former Military Chick
They ought to give that guy — if they don’t want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done.

Resignation Accepted.

Now STFU, and go home.

3 posted on 09/04/2005 1:19:56 AM PDT by konaice
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To: Former Military Chick

“And he’s getting some stuff done,” Nagin said. “They ought to give that guy — if they don’t want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done.”



Obviously Ray Nagin doesn't want to be the person in charge of this. I'm actually feeling a bit sorry for him; he doesn't sound like a bad guy but it is clear that he is in way over his head.


4 posted on 09/04/2005 1:23:50 AM PDT by Avenger
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To: Avenger

Ray Nagin a textbook illustration of the Peter Principle


5 posted on 09/04/2005 1:26:09 AM PDT by kublia khan (absolute war brings total victory)
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To: martin_fierro

Just needed a real man to run the show. A real woman could have done the job too.

Leave your keys on the desk Blanco and Nagin and relocate out of country. Like France.


6 posted on 09/04/2005 1:26:48 AM PDT by rineaux (hardcore)
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Why would anyone in their right mind give this clown Nagin any power? He was the mayor! What did he do for his citizens? Nothing.


7 posted on 09/04/2005 1:30:10 AM PDT by Cougar66 (The only liberal movement is what's in their diapers. .)
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To: Former Military Chick
“They ought to give that guy — if they don’t want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done.”

I think the authority is by default at the local level ie the incident commander, at least that is what we were taught. If something happened where I work the supervisor in charge becomes the incident commander and has the power to call in all available resources up to and including the federal level but the authority remains with him, unless he turns it over. The local incident commander is boss over whatever local, state, or federal help comes into the picture. So the authority belongs to the mayor and his local incident commanders. The authority isn't something the feds "own" and can "give to" the mayor, he and his fire/police chiefs already have it. He and his fire/police/etc. chiefs must not have a clear understanding how disaster management works.

8 posted on 09/04/2005 5:03:35 AM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: dynoman
BTW, did you hear whether or not an incident commander was ever appointed by any N.O. or Louisiana official?

I don't think so.

9 posted on 09/04/2005 5:05:44 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God)
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To: Former Military Chick

Did you see the CNN clip of him running around, yelling "weapons down" to his troops? It had the look of someone who was purposely trying to humiliate his own troops in front of a populace that seems to need a barrel pointed to the head.


10 posted on 09/04/2005 5:08:20 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th

They should have given this command to someone with a little more gravitas.


11 posted on 09/04/2005 5:12:37 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: Former Military Chick
I'm sure LTG Honore is a good soldier and leader. He is also black. The mayor is only saying good things about the general because the general is black. The mayor is no doubt a racist. If I were the general I would reject the so-called compliment from the racist mayor.
12 posted on 09/04/2005 5:19:43 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny

The "guns down" CNN tape of Honore running around like an idiot telling his troops not to point their weapons was a clincher for me. Honore looks like a political hack himself.


13 posted on 09/04/2005 5:22:15 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: kublia khan

Nah... just 'normal' Louisiana politics....


14 posted on 09/04/2005 5:26:23 AM PDT by litehaus
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To: Avenger

A lot of them are in over their head [local officials]

Fox reported 2 days ago half the police department left.

If Rudy had been down there he would be in the middle of the city running things. Nagin was not really heard from except here and there cussing out the government over the radio. You get nothing accomplished by that type of behavior.


15 posted on 09/04/2005 5:29:05 AM PDT by WestCoastGal (Thank you JR for pulling this limping team across the finish in 9th place)
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To: Jim Noble
BTW, did you hear whether or not an incident commander was ever appointed by any N.O. or Louisiana official?

I don't think so.

A better way to phrase that might be "Did you hear who the incident commander was?".

Where I work the incident commander is the on duty shift supervisor, even if he calls in federal help the overall incident command remains with him. Of course the scale of the disaster in NO is huge but it looks like whatever incident command there was rolled over. The mayor's statement that "they" give authority to "the John Wayne dude" "if" "they" don't give it to "me" shows he didn't understand disaster management or that they had given up on managing it themselves.

FEMA Independent Study Program: IS-200 Basic Incident Command System, I-200, for Federal Disaster Workers

16 posted on 09/04/2005 5:38:30 AM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: farmer18th
Did you see the CNN clip of him running around, yelling "weapons down" to his troops? It had the look of someone who was purposely trying to humiliate his own troops in front of a populace that seems to need a barrel pointed to the head.

Yep, and he also yelled the order to what looked like the police. Anyway, I wondered why Nagin had praise for him ... now the MSM has a new woman/minority to champion. I doubt we'll hear anymore squawking from the media about the Federal response now that "John Wayne" Honore is there.

17 posted on 09/04/2005 5:40:37 AM PDT by mikegi
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To: dynoman
but it looks like whatever incident command there was rolled over.

Thanks for the correction, you are right.

What I meant was, after the collapse of local authority, was any successor ever appointed to the head of N.O. EMS or whoever the "designated" incident command was.

18 posted on 09/04/2005 5:42:39 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God)
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To: Cougar66

Bush should declare NO a Military Protectorate and put Honore in charge.


19 posted on 09/04/2005 5:46:50 AM PDT by tom paine 2
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To: tom paine 2

"Bush should declare NO a Military Protectorate and put Honore in charge."

Elsewhere on FR there is a story about this. Bush tried to do something like this Thursday night, trying to federalize troops, thus invoking the Posse Commitatus act.


20 posted on 09/04/2005 6:01:07 AM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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To: farmer18th
Did you see the CNN clip of him running around, yelling "weapons down" to his troops? It had the look of someone who was purposely trying to humiliate his own troops in front of a populace that seems to need a barrel pointed to the head.

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that the populace needs a barrel pointed at its head. Certainly there are portions of the populace that do, but it looked to me as though those troops were within a secured area of New Orleans.

It may very well have been that he's drawing a distinction between needless intimidation of cooperative citizens and legitimate actions against lawbreakers. If that's the case, I have no problem with his actions.

21 posted on 09/04/2005 6:08:18 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion
It may very well have been that he's drawing a distinction between needless intimidation of cooperative citizens and legitimate actions against lawbreakers. If that's the case, I have no problem with his actions.

I'm not quite sure I buy it though. In the first place, why is the acting commander running around in front of a CNN camera crew giving the order himself to troops on the ground? If that's his commnand structure, restoring order is going to be long in coming. In the second place, if the mayor of New Orleans likes the guy, there's something a bit fishy in that. In the third place, why the gratuitous swearing? If the acting commander uses the name of God, I prefer he be on his knees.

This guy looks like a full fledged political quack.
22 posted on 09/04/2005 6:24:29 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: Jim Noble
What I meant was, after the collapse of local authority, was any successor ever appointed to the head of N.O. EMS or whoever the "designated" incident command was.

That's an interesting question. Normally, when disaster management works like it should, disaster management/incident command is transparent. "The public" wouldn't even notice the disaster mangement/incident command in place, all they would see is that the disaster is being managed. On 9/11 I didn't see or read anything about the disaster management/incident command structure in use there - it was working and working well. It's when there is a management/command breakdown or maybe no management/plan in place "the public" notices. I can hardly believe the mayor's comments "if" "they" give authority to "me". I don't know what he is thinking; The authority, by default, already belongs to him and whatever disaster management team he has in place.

Oh well it's is just another symptom of a society that expects to be spoon fed everything.

23 posted on 09/04/2005 6:25:56 AM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: farmer18th


JOHN WAYNE 'DUDE'

Lieutenant General Russel L. Honore, Commanding General, First United States Army, Fort Gillem, Georgia

General Honore is a native of Lakeland, Louisiana. He was commissioned a Second Lieutenant of Infantry and awarded a Bachelor of Science degree in Vocational Agriculture upon graduation from Southern University and A&M College in 1971. He holds a Master of Arts in Human Resources from Troy State University as well as an Honorary Doctorate in Public Administration from Southern University and A&M College.

General Honore has served in a variety of command and staff positions. His overseas assignments include tours in Korea and Germany. He served as Commanding General, 2nd Infantry Division in Korea; Vice Director for Operations, J-3, The Joint Staff, Washington, D.C.; Deputy Commanding General and Assistant Commandant, United States Army Infantry Center and School, Fort Benning, Georgia; and Assistant Division Commander, Maneuver/Support, 1st Calvary Division, Fort Hood, Texas. Most recently, General Honore served as Commander, Standing Joint Force Headquarters – Homeland Security, U.S. Northern Command.

General Honore’s awards and decorations include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the Defense Superior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit with four Oak Leaf Clusters, the Bronze Star Medal, the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal with three Oak Leaf Clusters, and the Army Commendation Medal with three Oak Leaf Clusters.

***********************************************************

Honore has some impressive credentials, and I think everyone should cut him some slack. At least he was out on the streets getting his hands dirty and working directly with citizens rather than being holed up in command tent surrounded by MPs somewhere. Here's some more stories about his prior Army activities:

http://ww2.pstripes.osd.mil/01/jul01/ed070601c.html

http://www.army.mil/professionalwriting/volumes/volume3/april_2005/4_05_2.html

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/0805/28natieds.html

http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comments/c183.htm

http://www.leavenworth.army.mil/milrev/English/SepOct02/honore.htm

http://www.first.army.mil/pao/2005_Articles/1A_Host_Local_Officials.htm

http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/TNSarchives/February05/021405.htm

http://www.pittsburghlive.com:8000/x/leadertimes/s_129750.html

24 posted on 09/04/2005 6:26:15 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: NittanyLion

I agree with your assessment of what happened. It looked to me like those soldiers and cops were pointing their rifles at groups of innocent citizens rather than any looting savages, hence the citizens' applause when Honore ordered them to sling the weapons.


25 posted on 09/04/2005 6:29:19 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Honore has some impressive credentials, and I think everyone should cut him some slack.

In a city where police and soldiers are being shot at by what can only be called primitives, it doesn't take any courage to tell troops to put down their weapons and humiliate them on national television. That is the action of a PR General playing to the cameras.

What's more, his profanity reveals his lack of character, especially on display like that for public consumption.

Generals shouldn't be on the front line, by the way. They should be planning, using their minds. This guy doesn't have one.
26 posted on 09/04/2005 6:33:56 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

A soldier who has his rifle up, ready to fire, shouldn't be a threat to a citizen who isn't shooting at him. No?


27 posted on 09/04/2005 6:36:36 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th
In the third place, why the gratuitous swearing?

Have you ever been around military men in the midst of operations? They can cuss a real blue-streak when thoroughly torqued off! Honore is just par for the course, and I don't think he was grandstanding for the cameras. Looked to me like he was completely ignoring them and going about his business...hence the unrestrained swearing.

28 posted on 09/04/2005 6:37:36 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: farmer18th
In a city where police and soldiers are being shot at by what can only be called primitives, it doesn't take any courage to tell troops to put down their weapons and humiliate them on national television. That is the action of a PR General playing to the cameras.

There may be distinctions that one can draw when on the ground, that we can't sitting in front of our PCs. Honore has a good record, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the facts warrant otherwise.

What's more, his profanity reveals his lack of character, especially on display like that for public consumption.

Yeah, I have to admit that profanity in the armed forces is a new one on me. < /sarcasm >

29 posted on 09/04/2005 6:39:08 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion
Yeah, I have to admit that profanity in the armed forces is a new one on me.

Patton, and Washington for that matter, didn't use that kind of language for rolling cameras or inked quills. After witnessing an act of God on this scale, it's a little disheartening to have such a godless, political showman in charge of the troops. We should have found a better leader.
30 posted on 09/04/2005 6:42:56 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th
Patton, and Washington for that matter, didn't use that kind of language for rolling cameras or inked quills.

Or, perhaps it just wasn't reported.

After witnessing an act of God on this scale, it's a little disheartening to have such a godless, political showman in charge of the troops. We should have found a better leader.

Personally, I'm much more concerned about his ability to effectively lead than the words he uses to get the job done. But that's just me.

31 posted on 09/04/2005 6:45:19 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Avenger
Obviously Ray Nagin doesn't want to be the person in charge of this. I'm actually feeling a bit sorry for him; he doesn't sound like a bad guy but it is clear that he is in way over his head.
_____________________________________________________

Please read the posts, threads, blogs (malkin, belmont club, captains quarters), about Nagin's role in the destruction of his own city and then his role in attempting to cover up his culpability by blaming the federal gov't response, before you feel sorry for this guy. He is a cunning politician and deserves no pity. His lack of proper action as defined by the New Orleans disaster response plan, is responsible for much of this national disgrace we have witnessed this past week. The same goes of Gov. Blanco
32 posted on 09/04/2005 6:45:19 AM PDT by photodawg
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Looked to me like he was completely ignoring them and going about his business...hence the unrestrained swearing.

Now, if you believe he didn't know he was going to be on camera, I have a few municipal water pumps to sell you.
33 posted on 09/04/2005 6:45:45 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th

Perception is everything, and he was right to order the troops and cops to stand down. Not everyone in New Orelans is behaving like the animals that were terrorizing the Superdome and the convention center, and those women and kids standing around on the street did not deserve to have those weapons aimed at them in a threatening manner, as if they were on the streets of Baghdad. As for humiliation, there was none, since what Honore gave those soldiers was nothing compared to what a Patton would have given them. Let's get real here. This is the U.S. Army, and officers and NCOs talk to their troops like that all the time. Its nothing new...


34 posted on 09/04/2005 6:46:38 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: farmer18th
Patton, and Washington for that matter, didn't use that kind of language for rolling cameras or inked quills

Don't know about Washington, but I gar-run-tee General Patton was not restrained in his language and would not give a "you know what" who heard him. (Blush!)
35 posted on 09/04/2005 6:47:56 AM PDT by hummingbird (21st Century Newsreporting - "Don't get me started!")
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To: NittanyLion
Personally, I'm much more concerned about his ability to effectively lead than the words he uses to get the job done. But that's just me.

He sure got them there quickly, didn't he? I repeat it, if Nagin likes this guy, there is something wrong with him.
36 posted on 09/04/2005 6:48:03 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th

My, we truly are the cynic aren't we...


37 posted on 09/04/2005 6:48:53 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: farmer18th
I repeat it, if Nagin likes this guy, there is something wrong with him.

Nagin's an idiot. He isn't smart enough to know a good leader one way or the other. A roll of the dice is more likely to give us an accurate appraisal than Nagin.

38 posted on 09/04/2005 6:50:26 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Perception is everything

Agreed on that, but what is the perception? He did this for CNN cameras. Did you see the litany of it, the sheer repetition of him barking off his Budweiser mouth at volunteer soldiers pulled from their home to protect these animals? It was the CROWD, I remind you, who keep police from protecting those convention center women in the first place. There is an established pattern in this city of relief workers being shot at. It wasn't the time for the "kinder, gentler" thing.
39 posted on 09/04/2005 6:53:01 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th
Patton, and Washington for that matter...

Patton's use of "colorful" language has been well-documented, and because of reporting standards during WWII, none of it ever made it into the papers or on Movietone news. As for Washington, he too routinely used blue wordage to "motivate" his men and officiers, for example at the Battle of Manhattan in 1776. Again, it never made it into the "Pennsyvania Gazette" or the "Virginia Gazette" because of the social proprieties of the time. And don't get me started on the numerous Civil War generals who could cuss the paint off a wall. And anyway, Honore wasn't giving a prepared speech...he was out on the street doing his job and being seen as an authority figure bringing order to a lawless city. Someone had to do it since the mayor and the governor sure as heck wasn't...
40 posted on 09/04/2005 7:00:12 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: NittanyLion
Nagin's an idiot.

He knows enough not to praise anyone who isn't on the team. If your sister were being raped in the convention center would you want a commander who was more angry with law breakers or his own troops?
41 posted on 09/04/2005 7:02:16 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: martin_fierro

Those goeos Naggin again!


42 posted on 09/04/2005 7:05:50 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Former Military Chick
It is painfully obvious that Nagin hasn't got a clue that HE is supposed to be providing local leadership and coordination, using the resources made available to him from federal authorities. He really doesn't grasp that everyone outside of NO is waiting on him to actually step up to the plate and lead.

Thus far all he has done is whine--but that is all demonRATs are ever capable of doing.

43 posted on 09/04/2005 7:06:01 AM PDT by twntaipan (Leadership: Rudy has it! W has it! Ray (mayor of New Orleans) can't spell it!)
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To: Avenger

I am thinking that Nagin will eventually be recalled.

Blanco should be recalled too.


44 posted on 09/04/2005 7:06:36 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner
Someone had to do it since the mayor and the governor sure as heck wasn't...

Honore is going to curse the city into submission? While he tells the troops to sling their weapons?

We don't remember Washington or Patton because of their swearing. We remember them because they won. If one of these guardsman can't get to the trigger fast enough because this political hack is doing sideshows like this, I wouldn't want to be the one to inform the family.

Restraint is a good thing in a commander, but a city raping and killing its own doesn't deserve restraint.
45 posted on 09/04/2005 7:06:44 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: farmer18th
If your sister were being raped in the convention center would you want a commander who was more angry with law breakers or his own troops?

I'd want a commander who can get the job done. You have no evidence that Honore's "more angry" with his own troops than with the lawbreakers.

46 posted on 09/04/2005 7:11:29 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: farmer18th
We don't remember Washington or Patton because of their swearing. We remember them because they won.

Then let's wait and see whether Honore "wins" this one, shall we? Getting all worked up because you don't like his language, or second guessing decisions that can best be made on the ground is foolish.

47 posted on 09/04/2005 7:14:34 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: hummingbird
Don't know about Washington, but I gar-run-tee General Patton was not restrained in his language and would not give a "you know what" who heard him. (Blush!)

The difference is that Patton used profanity to get his troops to point their weapons. Honore uses it to make sure his troops are vulnerable to snipers.

And I don't care if it's George Washington himself, if an officer uses the Lord's name in vain I would tell him to fight his own war.
48 posted on 09/04/2005 7:16:48 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: NittanyLion

No, let's not "wait and see." This is a free republic, remember? This guy is not competent if he sends soldiers into a combat zone and tells them to sling their weapons. It's more than just the swearing. He's a coward.


49 posted on 09/04/2005 7:18:45 AM PDT by farmer18th ("The fool says in his heart there is no God.")
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To: WestCoastGal
If Rudy had been down there he would be in the middle of the city running things.

If 9/11 had wiped out ALL of NYC, Manhatten and Long Island, along with CT and half of NJ, Rudy would've been just as lost as Nagin.

This does not mean that I think highly of Nagin.
Quite the opposite. It's simply recognition that, with a catastrophe of
this magnitude, ANYBODY in his position would've been overwhelmed.
There are higher levels of incompetence to be dealt with.
IMHO, even Rudy would've been hamstrung by the Louisiana governor.

50 posted on 09/04/2005 7:21:03 AM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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