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MIlitary expert rebuts claims that Katrina relief was tardy
MSNBC ^ | 9/2/5 | Dan Goure

Posted on 09/04/2005 10:42:57 AM PDT by wm_tate

MSNBC military analyst Dan Goure: "It takes time to move thousands of tons of supplies and tens of thousands of people. It is remarkable that we have done so well in such a short period of time...let me tell you where the responsibility for the failure rests.

Unfortunately, I hate to say this; it rests first with the government of the City of New Orleans and secondly with the government of the State of Louisiana that failed in their emergency plans...

if you want to criticize what's going on the Guard and responses may be 24 hours behind optimum schedule, the best you can hope for but they're moving enormously quickly for a disaster that spanned 90,000 square miles. "

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections; US: Alabama; US: Louisiana; US: Mississippi
KEYWORDS: katrina; relief
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Goure begins his timeline on Monday, but the real problems didn't start until Tuesday. (The NY Times Tuesday morning story says NO escaped the worst.) So when Goure says the response could at worst be 24 hours behind schedule, he hasn't factored that in.

What the MSNBC web-site doesn't show, but the interview's snide questions hint at, is the anchorette (Lisa Daniels) blatantly ripping the Bush administration before the interview. Then, Goure came on and calmly and reasonable explained the obvious: you can't help the survivors of a disaster until you know where and how severe that disaster is.

1 posted on 09/04/2005 10:42:58 AM PDT by wm_tate
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To: wm_tate

Wow! MSNBC actually admitted this? I guess the cover-up is too far fetched even for them.


2 posted on 09/04/2005 10:43:48 AM PDT by livius
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To: wm_tate

Just heard the NG guy on Fox tell it like it is too. Perhaps the tide is turning.


3 posted on 09/04/2005 10:45:28 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: mtbopfuyn

He made sense. You really can't bring stuff in ahead of time because it might be destroyed.


4 posted on 09/04/2005 10:46:58 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If you must obey your party, may your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders.)
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To: livius

5 posted on 09/04/2005 10:47:08 AM PDT by Dallas59 (“You love life, while we love death.” - Al-Qaeda / Democratic Party)
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To: wm_tate

I saw that interview the other day. Goure did a good job of setting the record straight as I remember.


6 posted on 09/04/2005 10:48:15 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: wm_tate

Lt. Gen. Honre was just on Fox explaining things to the uninformed presstitutes as well.


7 posted on 09/04/2005 10:48:25 AM PDT by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: livius

We live in an instant gratification society, whether it be food and sex, or disaster relief. There's plenty of blame to be spread around, but people just don't understand the scope of what took place. If John Kerry had campaigned on platform of "Shore up the levees and evacuate the poor" (which he did not, although now he will probably say that he did), this still would have been a chaotic mess.


8 posted on 09/04/2005 10:49:25 AM PDT by Callahan
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To: wm_tate

I really got sick of Bill O'Reilly and some talk show hosts jabbering on last week about how the President should have just gone ahead and fielded military and guard units without a request from the governors of the states afflicted. Apparently they think the feds ought to impose aid at gunpoint if necessary.


9 posted on 09/04/2005 10:49:38 AM PDT by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: livius

Dan Goure, while I don't always agree with his military analysis- is a straightforward fellow- he knows how these things work.

Talked to a neighbor of mine this morning- retired Army logistics guy- he reiterated what we all know- this operation is a nightmare logistically- he's shaking his head at how quickly this deployment has happened- thinks it's fantastic.


10 posted on 09/04/2005 10:50:06 AM PDT by SE Mom (God Bless those who serve..)
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To: cripplecreek
You really can't bring stuff in ahead of time because it might be destroyed.

Just heard General Honore say that, too.

11 posted on 09/04/2005 10:51:46 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: wm_tate
I've been involved in logistics at the MEF/corps level, and I have been telling friends, family and coworkers much the same thing.

The response is timely from the feds. I think the PR effort from the feds is less than stellar, but the facts will hopefully emerge.
12 posted on 09/04/2005 10:53:02 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: marblehead17

ping


13 posted on 09/04/2005 10:54:50 AM PDT by marblehead17 (I love it when a plan comes together.)
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To: wm_tate

Please someone, save this thread. It gives valuable information from an expert that we'll need to answer questions in the coming weeks.


14 posted on 09/04/2005 10:55:31 AM PDT by mwfsu84
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To: wm_tate
Sorry to trot in my usual criticism of republicans. But you have that mayor cursing at the president, the governor blaming him, meanwhile half their police deserted which is despicable, and the governor never turned authority over so the feds could coordinate.

But the GOP politicians let the dems get away with it. Oh no, the dems can dance on their own people's graves but the repubs wouldn't dare call them out on it. The dems know exactly what they are doing. Can't tell you how many black people I have heard saying Bush didn't want to help the black people. All the dems care about is energizing the black vote, that's what keeps them in power.

Meanwhile black democrats are dead, it's the democrats' fault, and the gop doesn't dare say it. They let the dems get a away with murder - literally.

15 posted on 09/04/2005 10:55:40 AM PDT by Williams
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To: wm_tate

As was so elegantly demonstrated on national news in March (via a handicapped woman), humans can live up to 14 days without food or water. These people still had a good week and a half to go!


16 posted on 09/04/2005 10:56:18 AM PDT by pkp1184
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To: wm_tate
Unfortunately, I hate to say this; it rests first with the government of the City of New Orleans and secondly with the government of the State of Louisiana that failed in their emergency plans . . .

can't say it enough.

17 posted on 09/04/2005 10:56:23 AM PDT by smonk
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To: wm_tate
It took FEMA four days to get in after hurricane Andrew.

Disaster response takes time, which is why you are to have 3-5 days food and water before this kind of event.

There is lots of blame to go around. But it is up to each state to prepare for this kind of thing, not the feds.

The LA powers that be act like they had no idea this storm was coming. They certainly provided no leadership, and could not even follow their own disaster plan.

Idiots.

18 posted on 09/04/2005 10:56:50 AM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: wm_tate
I heard that someone this morning suggested that the trucks should have been lined up on the causeway. If they had been, all those supplies and trucks would now be on the bottom of the lake and NOBODY would be getting help.

How dumb can people be to think supplies should have been positioned in the path of the storm?

19 posted on 09/04/2005 10:57:42 AM PDT by McGavin999 (Global Dumbing far more serious threat than Global Warming)
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To: wm_tate
"It takes time to move thousands of tons of supplies and tens of thousands of people. It is remarkable that we have done so well in such a short period of time..."

Indeed, this was a remarkable success. The levees broke on Tuesday and the first amount of real aid arrived in the area on Thursday despite a submerged city, just one road passable into the city, the NO police force cutting loose faster that John Kerry cutting loose a poor wife, and thugs shooting at rescuers.

And just imagine the scope of the damage if Bush didn't prod for an evacuation last Saturday.

20 posted on 09/04/2005 10:58:09 AM PDT by LdSentinal
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To: Williams

The democrats have never forgotten how important it is to have a President who can put his hand to his chest and mournfully bite his lip.


21 posted on 09/04/2005 11:00:08 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: teenyelliott

"But it is up to each state to prepare for this kind of thing, not the feds."

Your point is well taken. Otherwise, bureaucracies in localities and the states are, in a word, pointless.


22 posted on 09/04/2005 11:01:21 AM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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To: teenyelliott
It took FEMA four days to get in after hurricane Andrew.

My memory of Andrew is a bit fuzzy. Wasn't a good deal of that 'delay' due to the time it took Governor Chiles to ask for federal assistance?

23 posted on 09/04/2005 11:01:31 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Williams

Seems to me that FEMA tries to follow a pre planned script too hard. When things don't go according to plan FEMA and the other federal agencies seem to struggle.


24 posted on 09/04/2005 11:04:13 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If you must obey your party, may your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders.)
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To: wm_tate

bookmark


25 posted on 09/04/2005 11:06:55 AM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality - Miami)
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To: Callahan

The drive thru/microwave society.


26 posted on 09/04/2005 11:11:17 AM PDT by jennyjenny
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To: Callahan

You're right, it would have been chaotic no matter what. That's the nature of a disaster.

It didn't have to be such a human disaster, though, if the mayor had made better arrangements to get those people out. Earlier studies had predicted that about 20% of the city's population, mostly the very poorest, would stay behind in the event of an evacuation, and there needed to be a plan for dealing with them, particularly with respect to transportation. In addition, if the Governor had made it clear that disorder and mayhem would not be tolerated - something she did not do by bursting into tears off and on and refusing to ask for the help she could have gotten - it would never have gotten such traction at the start.


27 posted on 09/04/2005 11:14:55 AM PDT by livius
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To: John Jorsett
I really got sick of Bill O'Reilly and some talk show hosts jabbering on last week about how the President should have just gone ahead and fielded military and guard units without a request from the governors of the states afflicted. Apparently they think the feds ought to impose aid at gunpoint if necessary.

After which some members of the House of Represenatatives would have ordered a bill of Impeachment for abuse of power.

28 posted on 09/04/2005 11:15:15 AM PDT by mware (Atlantic County, NJ Heart of the Pinelands.)
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To: cripplecreek
The pre-planned script is a plan of action, which the local governments are aware of well in advance, and are supposed to follow. When someone screws the plan up you can't expect thousands of troops to be on the spot in less than 48 hours.

The mayor is a disgrace. BTW when my sister in law visited NO, they were told not to go outside the French Quarter because the city had a lot of violent criminals, drugs, thugs and corruption.

29 posted on 09/04/2005 11:18:53 AM PDT by Williams
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To: Williams

"The pre-planned script is a plan of action, which the local governments are aware of well in advance, and are supposed to follow."


That makes sense and it most certainly played a part in NO.


30 posted on 09/04/2005 11:20:52 AM PDT by cripplecreek (If you must obey your party, may your chains rest lightly upon your shoulders.)
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To: combat_boots
Unfortunately, when something like this happens, people like to blame Daddy Gubmint.

States are separate because they have individual governments. If the left does not want to rely on the states to handle these kinds of situations, then they need to be arguing for the abolition of ALL states, so we can just be one big dysfunctional bureaucracy.

31 posted on 09/04/2005 11:21:34 AM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: Bob
I am not sure what the specific situation was that time.

But I think the issue is immediate relief in disasters such as Andrew, or Katrina or any other predicted disaster, is the responsibility of the states.

That is why they have disaster plans. That is why they tell people to have 3-5 days worth of food and water, so that they can survive until the feds get there.

I don't think four days is outside of the norm. It takes time to organize massive relief.

32 posted on 09/04/2005 11:25:23 AM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: wm_tate
OMG, some reason to the hysteria, I have never seen so many freepers in full emoting mode.

The DNC/media pornographers of death, misery, racism, and blame have taken hold here.
33 posted on 09/04/2005 11:27:09 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: cripplecreek
You really can't bring stuff in ahead of time because it might be destroyed.

Which is why Red Cross and FEMA staff and supplies are positioned in safe zones. Then they have to clear paths through the debris to GET to the disaster areas.

Kudos to the hundreds of volunteers who brought their chainsaws and cleared the roads ahead of the Guard and the relief crews. Otherwise, it would have taken much longer to get their supplies to the victims.

34 posted on 09/04/2005 11:29:45 AM PDT by shezza (God Bless Our Troops)
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To: Callahan

It's called Hollywood, and the leftist media pushing some kind of utopia.


35 posted on 09/04/2005 11:29:46 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: teenyelliott
Yet they tout Hillary-Care, imagine Russert with his camera in the face of the dying who are waiting for an operation.

It would NEVER happen.
36 posted on 09/04/2005 11:31:57 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: teenyelliott

I agree completely. The federal efforts don't start, except under the most unusual circumstances, until aid is requesrted by the state. That's the way the system is designed, the way the laws are written, and, IMHO, exactly the way it should be. Local and state governments have primary responsibility for initial disaster response.


37 posted on 09/04/2005 11:32:05 AM PDT by Bob
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To: livius

What the critical media are failing to mention is that they were also tardy on the disaster. I remember clearly Ted Kopple announcing that New Orleans had dodged the bullet, the worst of the storm. And for 24 hours the lamestream media was reporting it that way.

Now they come along and say the government should have know sooner.


38 posted on 09/04/2005 11:34:23 AM PDT by BJungNan
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To: pkp1184

Wow, never heard that story...


39 posted on 09/04/2005 11:36:53 AM PDT by dakine
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To: roses of sharon
Yet they tout Hillary-Care, imagine Russert with his camera in the face of the dying who are waiting for an operation. It would NEVER happen.

It really is beyond me how people can be that stupid.

40 posted on 09/04/2005 11:40:09 AM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: BJungNan

Now that you mention it, I remember all the media crowing that a.m. that NO had "dodged the bullet."

Yet what happened next - the flooding - was exactly what had been predicted in every scenario for NO after a Cat 4/5 hurricane.


41 posted on 09/04/2005 11:45:59 AM PDT by livius
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To: pkp1184
"As was so elegantly demonstrated on national news in March (via a handicapped woman), humans can live up to 14 days without food or water. These people still had a good week and a half to go!"

Without any pain or suffering they told us.

42 posted on 09/04/2005 11:46:28 AM PDT by A_Niceguy_in_CA
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To: wm_tate

Except for the flooding, I suspect damage in NO would be far less than in Mississippi, and the coverage would be in Miss instead of NO. But the flooding, which actually began on Tuesday, was when the problem started. The Feds were on the scene in no time. All the blame rests with the useless pricks who were supposedly in charge of the city and state governments--all lousy Dummycrats. Most Americans are not being fooled by the race-baiters and poverty-pimps like Sharpton, Jackson, Jackson Jr., etc. they can see the entire NO problem is attributable to them, not the President.


43 posted on 09/04/2005 11:50:48 AM PDT by Cautor
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To: wm_tate
MSNBC military analyst Dan Goure: "It takes time to move thousands of tons of supplies and tens of thousands of people.

Old military axiom:......."Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics."

44 posted on 09/04/2005 11:53:09 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: SE Mom

"Talked to a neighbor of mine this morning- retired Army logistics guy- he reiterated what we all know- this operation is a nightmare logistically- he's shaking his head at how quickly this deployment has happened- thinks it's fantastic."

I've been saying the same thing on a couple of threads and been catching some flak for that. There's a lot of folks on free republic that think otherwise. I doubt they've ever had to organize a church social but they are full of solutions to a logistical nightmare like this.


45 posted on 09/04/2005 11:53:12 AM PDT by DugwayDuke (Stupidity can be a self-correcting problem.)
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To: wm_tate
HOW ABOUT THIS TIDBIT From the Instanpundit's site:

Buried at the end of the WaPo's critical article on FEMA's decline is this crucial paragraph:

Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana's failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period.

"Fundamentally the first breakdown occurred at the local level," said one state official who works with FEMA. 'Did the city have the situational awareness of what was going on within its borders? The answer was no."

46 posted on 09/04/2005 11:59:51 AM PDT by msnimje (CNN - Constant Negative Nonsense)
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To: livius

What if the Governor had said to the mayor....you take the convention center...I'll handle the superdome & then they went in to those places and got even some minimal organizing started. If they had done that...hands on into the places with the direst need...they would have been hereos. If they had been murdered by the criminals...they would have been saints!

Unfortunately, they both scurried to comfort in Baton Rouge and got their fingers into point the blame position.


47 posted on 09/04/2005 12:28:29 PM PDT by chgomac
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To: wm_tate
The NY Times Tuesday morning story says NO escaped the worst.Everyone has already forgotten this. I was hoping to see a good timeline somewhere. Suggestions? I would like to know when forcasters warned NO, Bush ordered evac, levees broke, etc...
48 posted on 09/04/2005 12:31:15 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (We know the right things to do, why don't we just do them?)
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To: LearnsFromMistakes
The NY Times Tuesday morning story says NO escaped the worst.

Everyone has already forgotten this. I was hoping to see a good timeline somewhere. Suggestions? I would like to know when forcasters warned NO, Bush ordered evac, levees broke, etc...(preview is our friend...)

49 posted on 09/04/2005 12:32:16 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (We know the right things to do, why don't we just do them?)
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To: Polybius
Old military axiom:......."Amateurs talk tactics. Professionals talk logistics."

yup, 2-Shop says where it wants to go, but the 4-Shop tells it When and How it's going to get there...

50 posted on 09/04/2005 12:48:33 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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