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Katrina: A Point by Point Refutation of the Left's Talking Points (Vanity)
9/5/05 | Stanley Jackson

Posted on 09/05/2005 4:46:14 AM PDT by Stajack

In the wake of Katrina, The Left has thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Bush Administration. Here's a point by point refutation of some of their major talking points.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: katrina; leftistlies; refutation
Urban Legend #1: The levees were neglected by the Bush Administration.

Here's the refutation.

Urban Legend #2: Katrina was caused by Global Warming, which has been exaccerbated by Bush policies.

Here's the refutation.

Urban Legend #3: Relief efforts were degraded because sorely needed Louisiana National Guard troops were off fighting in Iraq.

Here's the refutation.

Urban Legend #4: The primary blame for the chaos after Katrina rests with the federal government, not local authorities.

Here's the refutation.

1 posted on 09/05/2005 4:46:14 AM PDT by Stajack
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To: Stajack

bump


2 posted on 09/05/2005 4:47:31 AM PDT by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans.)
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To: Stajack
Note: This link returns a blank page:

http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/1/125948/7993%22

3 posted on 09/05/2005 4:52:20 AM PDT by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans.)
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To: Stajack
How about "was that the famous Democrat party base shooting at rescue workers."?

Outrageous? Yes. But not nearly as outrageous as the attacks on W.

4 posted on 09/05/2005 4:53:30 AM PDT by Tom Bombadil
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To: Tom Bombadil
Bush gave a Mandatory Order to leave the city.
I see the media refuses or is too intimidated to state the obvious.Where were the local officials in any of this mess? I have to say if the Mayor was white he would be run up the flag pole by the media.
5 posted on 09/05/2005 4:59:15 AM PDT by ricoshea
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To: ChadGore

http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/1/125948/7993


6 posted on 09/05/2005 5:00:24 AM PDT by A. Morgan (Get thee behind me Satan!)
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To: ChadGore
Link update:

Refutation of Urban Legend #3 regarding the Louisiana National Guard: Go here

7 posted on 09/05/2005 5:01:53 AM PDT by Stajack
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To: Stajack
In the wake of Katrina, The Left has thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Bush Administration.

Not quite; here's one ploy they haven't used....Blaming JEB Bush. Remember we were the first State to be hit by Katrina and we lost 11 people and it was during it's passage across Florida that JEB Bush used his secret powers to send it into the Gulf and turn towards Louisiana.

8 posted on 09/05/2005 5:09:00 AM PDT by scouse
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To: scouse

I wonder how long it will be before we see THAT one.


9 posted on 09/05/2005 5:10:59 AM PDT by Stajack
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To: Stajack; Lobbyist; xrhopsiomega; FairOpinion; ncountylee; TASMANIANRED; hadaclueonce; ...

FYI.


10 posted on 09/05/2005 5:13:42 AM PDT by John Galt's cousin (Why were the 9th and 10th Amendments added to the Constitiution?)
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To: ricoshea
"Bush gave a Mandatory Order to leave the city.---if the Mayor was white "

Those comments are idiotic. I live in Slidell and from my view, the mayor is blameless, the Governor is culpable and the Feds were very,very late! The national guard in Louisiana which is under control of the governor was not there until it was too late.

As for people saying there was an evacuation order(which the mayor gave not Bush BTW), I am at a loss to understand how shallow these "thinkers" really are. You cannot evacuate millions of people for hundreds of miles on 2 or 3 roads at the drop of a hat. Pull your head out of wherever you are storing it.

11 posted on 09/05/2005 5:14:09 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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To: scouse
"Blaming JEB Bush. Remember we were the first State to be hit by Katrina and we lost 11 people and it was during it's passage across Florida that JEB Bush used his secret powers to send it into the Gulf and turn towards Louisiana."

Dang you scouse - now the cats out of the bag!

12 posted on 09/05/2005 5:16:27 AM PDT by patriot_wes (papal infallibility - a proud tradition since 1869)
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To: Stajack

This thread might also be useful:

Cached Katrina news reports BEFORE landfall (Aug 27-Aug 29)
Times-Picayune (cached)

Posted on 09/05/2005 4:43:56 AM EDT by xrhopsiomega
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1477621/posts


13 posted on 09/05/2005 5:23:15 AM PDT by John Galt's cousin (Why were the 9th and 10th Amendments added to the Constitiution?)
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To: Stajack
Bump and bookmarked.

Thanks!

14 posted on 09/05/2005 5:24:32 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: oldcomputerguy

the mayor is blameless? for not evacuating the elderly, infirm before the strong? for not preparing shelters adequately for several days of siege? come on! those seem like city preparedness basics to me here in Los Angeles where we knew about disasters too...i am haunted by the hundreds of buses that could have been used Saturday and Sunday to get people out. he should be too.


15 posted on 09/05/2005 5:29:04 AM PDT by avital2
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To: scouse

The left has been using Jeb and Florida as a contrast to this disaster. I can't count the number of times I've heard "Bush sent help right away to Florida because of brother Jeb and it was right before the election, now there's no election and the people are black."


16 posted on 09/05/2005 5:29:12 AM PDT by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: Stajack

If the would just drop Teddy Kennedy into the breech in the levee, they could save several hundred sandbags...


17 posted on 09/05/2005 5:31:11 AM PDT by sonofatpatcher2 (Texas, Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: Stajack

Ah heck, let's give them the one that Bush, leader of the right and grandest party, is able to control the weather and the entire universe.


18 posted on 09/05/2005 5:35:09 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: Stajack

Good work.
Only you and your best friend might ever refer to it.
Our enemy could care less.
The damage is done.
The vandals have fled.
You lost. So have we. Again.
Being technically correct does'nt win wars.
Or political victories.
It's tough.
That's life.


19 posted on 09/05/2005 5:41:35 AM PDT by CBart95
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To: Stajack

The liberals better be careful with this

I've been saying that this liberal idea of "Bush's fault" undermines their central argument because now we know: government can't save you

Don't forget, these are people who envision National Health Care.


20 posted on 09/05/2005 5:42:10 AM PDT by IncPen (There's nothing that a liberal can't improve using your money...)
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To: oldcomputerguy

Strange you would say all that considering there is local comprehensive disaster plan, way ahead of FEMA.

"City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan" http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26


21 posted on 09/05/2005 5:46:58 AM PDT by SIRTRIS
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To: IncPen

What will finally backfire on them is.

The President names the Cabinet level people that run Homeland Security and FEMA, but the regional people are career employees of the Federal Government of which the majority are union members more intrested in their coffee breaks than doing their jobs in an emergency. At the same time many of the people who run regional offices are there, not because they are experts, but because they know the politician in their region (in this case sy Democrats).
And as to the Corp Of Engineer Budget, if I remember correctly, they are still a part of the U.S. Army and their budget is a part of the overall budgets which the democrats have been cutting every year between Bush I and Bush II. Remember peace dividend.


22 posted on 09/05/2005 5:54:17 AM PDT by Wooly
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To: Stajack

bump


23 posted on 09/05/2005 5:57:57 AM PDT by KSCITYBOY
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To: Stajack

I have also gathered a group of stories and links, saved a a Microsoft Word file.

If anyone wants a copy, FreepMail me.

Godd bless Freeper Nation!


24 posted on 09/05/2005 6:07:39 AM PDT by TheRobb7 ("Whatever enables us to go to war, secures our peace." --Thomas Jefferson)
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To: scouse

That's right!! JEB is a cruel cruel man.


25 posted on 09/05/2005 6:09:54 AM PDT by Fawn (Being a FREE COUNTRY doesn't mean EVERYTHING'S FOR FREE!!!!!!!)
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To: sonofatpatcher2
If the would just drop Teddy Kennedy into the breech in the levee, they could save several hundred sandbags..."

Lol.....add Barney Fwank & Michael Moore and that thing is never gonna break!

26 posted on 09/05/2005 6:12:20 AM PDT by Fawn (Being a FREE COUNTRY doesn't mean EVERYTHING'S FOR FREE!!!!!!!)
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To: Fawn

Re: If the would just drop Teddy Kennedy into the breech in the levee, they could save several hundred sandbags..."
Lol.....add Barney Fwank & Michael Moore and that thing is never gonna break!

Gad, this is too easy... Drop Barney 'cause he would suck all the water right up...


27 posted on 09/05/2005 6:15:34 AM PDT by sonofatpatcher2 (Texas, Love & a .45-- What more could you want, campers? };^)
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To: oldcomputerguy
The mayor ONLY gave the evacuation order when TOLD TO DO SO by fed's.

The Mayor left hundreds of city municipal buses and New Orleans school buses to flood in their parking lots.

The mayor ordered evacuation centers in the Super Dome and Convention Center - But failed to stage food and water in either place for the tens of thousands he had DECADES to plan for a hurricane.

The Mayor had no police control, and no police to control because HE (and previous administrations) fed a corrupt and racist police dept.

The mayor had failed to maintain HSI pumps and levees.

The mayor failed to remove people from the Dome when they could have WALKED OUT - through knee-deep it is true, but he left them there in their (his own) squalor.

The mayor and Governor HAVE NOT YET signed papers to give the fed's local authority to take control - but this was requested and signed by AL and Missip. governors BEFORE the storm hit.
28 posted on 09/05/2005 6:17:43 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (-I contribute to FR monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS supports Hillary's Secular Sexual Socialism every day.)
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To: CBart95
The damage is done. The vandals have fled. You lost. So have we. Again.

I hope that you are wrong. Actually, I think you are. Think back. How long has The Left been doing this type of saturation bombing? And how long have we been winning elections. I truly believe that there's a cumulative effect to thousands and thousands of folks like you and I rattling our cages. And that cumulative effect MATTERS, oftentimes in intangible ways.

29 posted on 09/05/2005 6:30:15 AM PDT by Stajack
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

http://www.philly.com/mld/miamiherald/news/special_packages/5min/12505019.htm

Posted on Mon, Aug. 29, 2005


U.S. GULF COAST
Storm carries multiple threats
Hurricane Katrina threatened to submerge 287-year-old New Orleans, create numerous dangers

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050901corps,1,7189346.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Corps officials: Funding levels not to blame for flooding

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5239074,00.html

Blanco said President Bush called and personally appealed for the mandatory evacuation for the city,


http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan"


http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/091904ccktWWLIvanFlaws.132602486.html

Ivan exposes flaws in N.O.'s disaster plans
05:09 PM CDT on Sunday, September 19, 2004
"They say evacuate, but they don't say how I'm supposed to do that," Latonya Hill, 57,


an interesting video link:

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player05.html?090305/pol_blame_090305&Your_World&Blame%20Game&acc&Politics&-1&exp


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05242/562353.stm

As dawn broke on the day after Hurricane Katrina's landfall...The federal government began rushing baby formula, communications equipment, generators, water and ice into hard-hit areas of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, along with doctors, nurses and first-aid supplies.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050903/pl_afp/usweatherresponse_050903203446
Disintegration of New Orleans police slowed response: guard commander Sat Sep 3, 4:34 PM ET

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/16/national/main636126.shtml

Charley Cleanup 'Organized Chaos'
PUNTA GORDA, Fla., August 15, 2004

that quick response fueled suspicion that he is using disaster politics to help his campaign in one of the most critical battleground states, a notion the president dismissed Sunday.

"Yeah, and if I didn't come they'd have said he should have been here more rapidly," Mr. Bush said.


http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9177135/

Why is the relief effort taking so long?
Analyzing the government's response to Hurricane Katrina

Updated: 5:02 p.m. ET Sept. 2, 2005
: Unless you're going to drop the palates from 10 or 20,000 feet on the heads of these poor people

http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=1094262

Poll: Bush Not Taking Brunt of Katrina Criticism
Hurricane Preparedness Is Faulted; Fewer Blame Bush for Problems


30 posted on 09/05/2005 6:36:25 AM PDT by TheRobb7 ("Whatever enables us to go to war, secures our peace." --Thomas Jefferson)
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To: scouse
Remember we were the first State to be hit by Katrina and we lost 11 people and it was during it's passage across Florida that JEB Bush used his secret powers to send it into the Gulf and turn towards Louisiana.

You forget Katherine Harriss' role in this. She's trying to win the support of the evil Repbulicans who were against her candidacy. And for further confirmation, the Supreme Court was part of the plan to cripple NO, and when Justice Renquhist threatened to tell about what was going on, well, you know what happened to him.

31 posted on 09/05/2005 7:28:50 AM PDT by feedback doctor (Liberals will only go to Wal-Mart for looting!)
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To: oldcomputerguy

>>> "As for people saying there was an evacuation order(which the mayor gave not Bush BTW), I am at a loss to understand how shallow these "thinkers" really are. You cannot evacuate millions of people for hundreds of miles on 2 or 3 roads at the drop of a hat. Pull your head out of wherever you are storing it." <<<

The Mayor did not evacuate N.O. until Bush pleaded for an evacuation, and only then after the Mayor consulted with his lawyers. Only an absolute idiot would wait until the last day to evacuate when a Cat 4 or 5 hurricane is bearing down on you. Only an absolute idiot would leave all those poor, disabled and dangerous inside the city, when he had many hundreds, maybe thousands, of buses at his disposal. As for legal authority, the SE Louisana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan clearly states:

"The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating."

BTW, where are your storing your head?


32 posted on 09/05/2005 7:31:32 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau ("Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." -- James 4:7)
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To: Stajack

Good work on these points, Stajack.


33 posted on 09/05/2005 8:03:20 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: feedback doctor
Justice Renquhist threatened to tell

Ah yes! He was sent to Marcy Park.

34 posted on 09/05/2005 8:55:14 AM PDT by scouse
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To: mtbopfuyn
Ah heck, let's give them the one that Bush, leader of the right and grandest party, is able to control the weather and the entire universe.

Oh yeah, I forgot that one ;-)

35 posted on 09/05/2005 10:49:13 AM PDT by Stajack
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To: Madame Dufarge

What does "bump" mean?


36 posted on 09/05/2005 4:50:10 PM PDT by Stajack
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To: TaxRelief

Ping. Contains good links.


37 posted on 09/05/2005 5:09:12 PM PDT by Huber (Pray deeply for the victims of Katrina, and shoot the looters and marauders on sight.)
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To: oldcomputerguy
from my view, the mayor is blameless

Did the mayor use the public school buses to evacuate the indigent?

Did the mayor alert FEMA to the fact that thousands of refugees were being sent to an undocumented, insecure refugee center (convention center).

Did the mayor remain in the city working side-by-side with the chief of police, etc to secure provisions and shelter for the refugees?

38 posted on 09/05/2005 6:25:01 PM PDT by TaxRelief (That's right. No mention of the convention center until Sept 1 (in print).)
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To: Stajack
The Southern Louisiana Evacuation Plan specifically stated that people without private transportation were to be transported on public buses. Here is the original post of the plan

There were not just "200 buses". There were 200 buses in just one photo and Freepers studying the post-Katrina satellite images have counted over 400 buses altogether at other city parking.

At 70 people per bus that is 28,000 people per round trip that could have been taken out of the storm surge area in the 48 hours prior the Katrina striking.

After the storm hit, what makes you think that buses sent from outside of New Orleans could drive through the flooded mess any better than the 145 New Orleans city buses that were parked 1.2 miles away from the Superdome?

Was Scotty supposed to beam the outside buses to the Superdome and them beam them back out so that they would not have to drive through impassable roads?

The time to evacuate those 200,000 low-income people on public buses OUT OF THE STORM SURGE ZONE was BEFORE the Category 4 storm struck.

That was what the Southern Louisiana Evacuation Plan for New Orleans specifically called for.

The Democrat Governor and the Democrat Mayor did NOTHING to carry out that portion of the plan. They left 200,000 low-income resident abandoned and they now blame the Federal Government for not having Scotty beam down a massive logistics effort after a human disaster of their own making.

39 posted on 09/05/2005 8:15:41 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer

Can anyone explain to me the 'paperwork from Washington' that they say kept 10,000 guardsmen from getting their until Thursday?

"New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard

I'm trying to understand why paperwork would have to come from Washington on this. I thought that it was between the state governors and Washington had no jurisdiction over the Guard unless they were called up for foreign duty. I'm also wondering how they know when the paperwork got out of the state TO Washington in the first place. Just because he said that he would send them on Sunday and she accepted doesn't mean that both Louisiana and Arizona got the paperwork out that day and Washington knew about thier deal. Maybe Washington didn't recieve the 'paperwork' until Wednesday or Thursday from Louisiana. But, I'd still like to know what paperwork it was to begin with.


40 posted on 09/06/2005 12:20:39 AM PDT by Elyse
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To: Elyse

Well, I read that wrong at first. It wasn't 10,000 coming from Arizona I'm sure.


41 posted on 09/06/2005 12:22:20 AM PDT by Elyse
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To: PhilipFreneau
"BTW, where are your storing your head?"

Well, I have been storing it at friends in Minneapolis, another smaller home we have off the coast that sustained minor damage and a string of motels in between.

I will address the evacuation. In my view, about as many people as could be evacuated prior to the storm probably were evacuated. At a point many hours prior to landfall, people hunker down. You cannot have roads full of cars when these things hit. People who make comments that the storm was bearng down well in advance do not understand hurricanes. The forecast error is +/- 80 miles 24 hours prior to landfall.Double that for each day prior. In a normal storm, that is the difference
between a hit and a miss. The logistics is moving hundreds of thousands of people and them finding available motels hundreds of miles away is not an easy proposition. We do not get one hurricane each year but many. Which one is the one that will hit you? How many times do you need to leave for days and drive hundreds of miles? When Ivan missed us last year and went to Pensacola, my neightbor drove to Little Rock to find a room, and it was a false alarm for us. When these things get in the Gulf, you are competing for gasoline, motels rooms and road space with people from Texas to Florida who are also trying to evacuate! People who do not live here simply do not appreciate the logistics of evacuation. The last point is that this was simply the perfect storm, a hurricane unlike any other on record. 150 year old beach front homes were leveled so one like this had not been here in that long at least.
42 posted on 09/06/2005 4:21:45 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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