Posted on 09/06/2005 5:35:09 AM PDT by pittsburgh gop guy
Plenty of time for recriminations. I agree with the entire list. That still doesn't excuse the belated Federal intervention after the magnitude of the crisis was known, the firing at first responders by thugs, looting, and the sorry state of affairs at the Superdome and convention center were allowed to fester for days.
"Kathleen Blanco is a social worker and ribbon cutter."
AND Nagin was a radio station manager before he was elected mayor. Great credentials for elected officials! These two fools don't have a brain between them.
That would have been illegal (posse comitatus).
Excellent! Bravo!
Just in case you haven't been pinged to this thread yet.
Unquantifiable, yes. Theoretical, absolutely not. You're halfway there. We have rules for a reason, and one of those rules is that the states have defined authority over natural disasters, and surrender of that authority is given only at the permission of the state in crisis. Turn it around, say the Feds can claim permission to rescind state authority for a level of disaster that is perhaps MUCH less severe that the current events, how would you feel then?
The British used to do this all the time up New England way. Then again, they defined crisis "creatively"...
Yes, federal response has been slower than desired, but a great deal of that rests upon the shoulders of the governor of LA, and Mayor Nagin. It has much less to do with any callousness or sloth or part of the Feds. We stood to lose a lot more as a country by throwing away a giant chunk of the Constitution just because the Feds were impatient.
I just got through watching Soledad interview Blanco. Blanco sounded like a bumbling idiot and calling in Witt only seems to scream that she was unable to understand or handle the situation. She keeps saying they wanted the federal government to do everything, but she didn't want to give them control so they could do everything.
Outstanding post and it needs repeated. How about sending it to Trent Lott who has now joined Landrieu.
Where did these two states spend their federal money to prepare for emergencies after 9-11. We need that answered.
From the National Response Plan, under the catastrophic incidents annex:
Federal resources arriving at a Federal mobilization center or staging area remain there until requested by State/local incident command authorities, when they are integrated into the incident response effort."
I think that's pretty clear. Our Republic does not allow the Feds to just swoop in and shove the state and local government aside. Now is not the time to start that precedent; who knows where it would end?
FEMA reps were on the ground before the hurrican struck. They are present in the operations center.
After training at the local level year after year in more than one state I can tell you that FEMA isn't in the picture until you ask and they take more than a day to move in.
It depends what you mean by being in the picture. FEMA tracks all kinds of potential disasters through its National Situation Update system
The 82nd and the 1st Cav are over there now as for humanitarian support and not police control. Regular troops can only be sent in for the Insurrection act or Martial law.
Agree. It is part of Posse Comitatus, but they are there for more than humanitarian support. They are armed and have the right to self-defense. The thugs and looters are less apt to take potshots at them as they carry out their humanitarian work. They are there as a show of force, make no mistake about it.
That will only be because their attempts to point all the fingers at the feds, and specifically, President Bush, failed.
Oh believe me I realize that. The rules of engagement are very different when they are deployed within the US and engaging is a very last resort.
Even with FEMA on the ground they have to depend on reports from the State. I think one of the fallouts of this tragedy is that States may loose some rights. That may be Ok under this administration but imagine this under Hillary. I think she can make Wacko look like a walk in the park if we change response guidelines.
I think that's pretty clear. Our Republic does not allow the Feds to just swoop in and shove the state and local government aside. Now is not the time to start that precedent; who knows where it would end?
To paraphrase LTGEN Honore, "Let's not get stuck on Stupid." You can quote all the legalisms, reuglations, annexes, you want, but that doesn't save lives. Eventually, commonsense has to take over. This is the greatest natural disaster ever to hit this country. The hell with process and the rules. Address the needs of the victims, tend to the paperwork later.
I have worked in the USG bureaucracy for over 36 years. Your response is so typical of what is wrong with the corporate culture and demonstrates why the general public just doesn't understand such thinking. Gorelick's wall, the Able Danger screwup, and the CIA not communicating with the FBI, are just some examples of how the bureaucrats have failed us. We need to change the process if it doesn't work.
Two lessons to be learned for next time:
Local Level: Never assume outside help is coming, operate as if you are on your own.
Federal Level: Never assume the state and local levels are competent, especially if the state is run like a Banana Republic.
Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my ‘miscellaneous’ ping list.
States may lose some rights, but the standard or criterion should be responding effectively to the victims to reduce suffering and save lives. When you have an unprecedented major disaster such as Katrina, there may need to be exceptions or thresholds concerning Federal intervention and States' rights. If a suitcase nuke goes off or the Big One hits California, no state can respond by itself or should call the tune. They just don't have the expertise or resources.
This morning on CNN..Blanco:
After days of bickering, Governor Blanco said that she and FEMA are a team now. And now after a second meeting that nearly didn't happen, Governor Blanco also says that she and the president have patched things up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: Governor Kathleen Blanco and the former FEMA director, James Lee Witt, join us this morning.
Nice to see you.
Governor Blanco, let's begin with you.
Do you think the president was trying to snub you with that meeting yesterday? I mean, I heard from your spokespeople that you didn't even know about that meeting until you made the call. You saw it on CNN, apparently.
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO (D), LOUISIANA: Well, in the heat of battle a lot of things happen. And we feel like we're in the heat of battle.
That having been said, we had a great day together. The president came in, and we believe that he's solidly behind our efforts without a doubt.
S. O'BRIEN: Solidly behind your efforts, although there's been much written about kind of a power tussle between the two of you. Specifically, the mayor was telling us about a flight on Air Force One. And he said that you and he and the president were all in a room, and finally you and the president went separately to have a meeting.
Listen to what the mayor told us, ma'am, if you will.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: He called me in, in that office, after that. And he said, "Mr. Mayor, I offered two options to the governor." I said -- I don't remember exactly what -- two options.
I was ready to move today. The governor said she needed 24 hours to make a decision.
S. O'BRIEN: Twenty-four hours. Is that right? Was that what came out of that meeting on the tarmac with the president?
BLANCO: Soledad, the mayor was not in my meeting. And it was -- I'll tell you, it was a meeting that did not affect what was going on out in the field.
They were talking about paper organizations, nothing else. Nothing more. And they gave me a very complicated proposition to look at.
It didn't help our effort in that instant moment. I needed a little time to understand exactly what it meant.
We went forward, all of us. All the resources were there. Nothing stopped. We ended up coming to terms and agreements. And I think that the effort's going great.
S. O'BRIEN: Coming to terms, meaning that you rejected after that 24-hour window, that you didn't have any interest in federalizing the troops or turning power over to the president. Why not hand it over, Madame Governor, when the first five days -- and I think that meeting was on Friday, so the first several days of the recovery were clearly disastrous?
BLANCO: The first five days of the recovery were heroic. We had -- we were the people who took control.
The National Guard took control of the city, brought order out of chaos, because we have law enforcement authority. The federal troops do not. I was very concerned about giving up law enforcement authority.
S. O'BRIEN: Heroic, but by a very small number of people who were on the ground. In fact, I believe it was Friday morning when I was talking to the FEMA director, who had only just seen that there were tens of thousands of people at the convention center. So at least by Thursday, let's say the first four days, those people at the convention center were actually not getting anything. If it was not coordinated...
BLANCO: Soledad...
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, ma'am?
BLANCO: Soledad, the mayor and I were both asking for the same thing. We wanted troops, we wanted food, we wanted water, we wanted helicopters. We asked for that early in the week.
I asked for everything that we had available from the federal government. I got it from the National Guard. I got as much as possible. And the federal effort was just a little slow in coming.
I can't understand why. You know, those are questions that are yet to be answered.
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