Posted on 09/07/2005 11:59:39 AM PDT by radar101
A Turkish freighter was apparently at fault in a collision with a Groton-based submarine in the central Persian Gulf on Monday, though the Navy crew could still face disciplinary action, sources have told The Day.
The USS Philadelphia, SSN 690, is safely at a berth in Bahrain, where repair crews have started determining the extent of the damage from its collision with a Turkish freighter this week, a Navy spokesman said Tuesday.
Sources said the freighter was coming up behind the submarine about 30 miles off the Bahrain coast and apparently ran right up over the back of the ship, scraping along the starboard side of the hull, the fairwater plane, the rudder and the housing for the towed sonar array.
The sources said under international maritime “rules of the road,” any vessel overtaking another must automatically yield the right of way, so if the M/V Yaso Aysen is found to have been overtaking the submarine, then legally the Philadelphia would be in the clear, which could mean the Navy is not responsible for legal damages to the freighter.
But a Navy investigation could still conclude the Philadelphia captain and navigation team should never have let the freighter get close enough to hit it, and the captain and some members of the crew could still face some kind of punishment, the sources said.
The outcome might also depend on whether the Philadelphia was displaying the proper navigational aids to warn nearby ships that most of its bulk was underwater, and whether the Turkish ship ignored radio warnings. Two retired submarine skippers said freighters are often in a hurry and would occasionally run too close to their ships, which can be dangerous in navigation channels that leave little room for maneuvering.
Cmdr. Jeffrey Breslau, a spokesman for Fifth Fleet in Bahrain, said it is too soon to assign any blame for the collision between the 360-foot submarine and the 625-foot Turkish-flagged Aysen, which happened about 2 a.m. Monday. No one was injured on either ship, officials said.
The Aysen was said to have scrapes over about 100 feet of its hull on the port side, running from front to rear, though the ship got underway after the accident and reportedly made its way to a shipyard in Bahrain for repairs.
Breslau said he could not comment on the nature of the damage, but characterized it as relatively minor, and noted that the ship made its way to Bahrain on its own power.
“Damage assessment on the Philadelphia has started, but we won't have a better description of the damage for a while,” Breslau said. He said until the assessment is finished, the Navy can't say whether repairs will be done in the Gulf, or whether they will be delayed until Philadelphia returns home.
Breslau also said there has been no blame assigned in the accident as yet.
“The investigation will determine the cause, and until then we won't be speculating as to what might have happened,” Breslau said.
Philadelphia was on its way to Bahrain for a scheduled port visit when it collided with the freighter. Because of security considerations, the Navy does not comment on the movement of warships, so Breslau said he cannot comment on when the Philadelphia might leave, and he said it is too early to say whether the accident might affect the rest of the submarine's deployment.
Philadelphia left Groton last spring for a six-month mission in the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf, and was in the final weeks of the deployment at the time of the accident.
USS Philadelphia (SSN 690) The submarine and the ship are reported to have been slightly damaged in the accident in which there were no casualties. The accident that occurred in Bahrein's open sea is thought to have been caused by the failure of the Turkish ship's sonar's failure to locate the military submarine. The Turkish-flagged M/V Yaso Aysen, a cargo ship carrying 20 Turkish crew hit the US submarine "USS Philadelphia (SSN 690)" that was traveling towards Bahrein. The submarine that hit the Turkish ship from port side caused some damage to 35 meters of the 190-meter ship. The estimated cost of the damage to the ship is about $300,000. The accident reportedly occurred three hours after the cargo ship departed from the maintenance shipyard in the Asry town of Bahrein.It is stated that the accident was caused by the sonar's failure to see the submarine. Authorities point out that the kind of dye called "kriyt" which is used on military ships makes it hard or totally prevents these ships' being noticed by sonar in commercial ships. It is stated that the USS Philadelphia submarine involved in the accident belongs to the US fleet that is in the region taking part in the fight against weapon and drug smuggling. Turkish Undersecretary for Maritime Affairs General Director for Maritime Transport Ali Kurumahmut, in a statement he made following the collision, said that no casualties were reported and that they received information that the ship entered Bahrein's Asry Shipyard for repair. US Navy 5th Fleet spokesperson Jeffrey Breslau said that the accident took place in open sea 50 km to the northeastern Bahrein http://cruelkev2.blogspot.com/2005/09/sonars-failure-to-notice-caused.html
Unfortunately, in today's PC military, there's zero tolerance for on-the-job training (mistakes). Regardless of who is found "officially" at fault or not, for allowing a freighter to run up his rump this Skipper is toast.
So this ship is to be repaired in Bahrain?
Has there ever been a problem with muslims working on American warships?
I am sure there is some way the DUmmies can blame Bush for this.
Yep, skipper is toast. Let a ship run him over? hmmm...
After the USS Cole (and the Japanese fishing ship), I imagine all naval contact and near misses are going to be examined very closely.
I'm sure the freighter was in a hurry and probably in the wrong but the Captain's first duty is to protect his crew and boat.
"Has there ever been a problem with muslims working on American warships?"
Repairs at Bahrain are done by the US Navy.
Begin a ex-sub driver, the skipper is gone from the sub. No matter who hits whom the number 1 rule in boating is don't hit anything.
Assuming no-one was on the bridge to see it (lookouts) then someone should have been on the scope and yes sonar and radar all work so unless the boat surfaced in an emergency, it should never be involved in any accident.
The submarine was probably not able to maneuver due to draft or navigation restrictions.
"Assuming no-one was on the bridge to see it (lookouts) then someone should have been on the scope and yes sonar and radar all work so unless the boat surfaced in an emergency, it should never be involved in any accident."
OK. So if the submarine had taken evasive action and grounded, the skipper would be OK, right?
Nope, if a skipper grounds his boat is is gone as well. Like driving a car, you have to be in full control 100% of the time and I have seen skippers removed for hitting the dock during moorings.
"..OK. So if the submarine had taken evasive action and grounded, the skipper would be OK, right?"
I think Yakima's point was that he's toast either way.
My view as an outsider is that the sub captain and probably several crewmembers will be charged with Derelection of Duty.
1. Sub on Surface = 2 Lookouts + Captain and/or Exec.
2. Sub running "submerged" on surface = 2 Sonar operators + Watch Commander + Bridge Commander.
Then unless ordered by higher ups it should not have been there. A SSN 690 however could have gained speed and simply outdistanced the freighter since it is faster and coming from the rear.
Assume the no-tolerance rule holds even when the Skipper is in the rack or commode and the OOD is in charge. So, his fate is really not in his hands whenever he's off the bridge, is it? All those years can go 'poof' in an unguarded moment when your junior makes an error. Rough calling.
"Then unless ordered by higher ups it should not have been there."
It was enroute to Bahrain for a port call. I think port calls are mandated by the higher ups.
"A SSN 690 however could have gained speed and simply outdistanced the freighter since it is faster and coming from the rear."
Submarines are much slower on the surface than they are dived.
"Nope, if a skipper grounds his boat is is gone as well."
OK, you have two choices:
1. Deviate from the channel and run aground.
2. Stay in the channel and get hit.
I stand corrected, "PC" doesn't apply here, it appears to be an operational misjudgment. There are other examples of PC in the military though that rankle me(I have to go take my 'Sensitivity To Others' training class in a few minutes).
Shipping lanes to/from ports of call provide for room to move.
Depending on the sub some are slower on the surface then below but can still go faster then a freighter.
"Nope, if a skipper grounds his boat is is gone as well."
OK, you have two choices:
1. Deviate from the channel and run aground.
2. Stay in the channel and get hit.
"Yep, skipper is toast. Let a ship run him over? hmmm..."
Didn't seem to hurt JFK's career.
You take the choice that does not get you in that position in the first place. You might not like it but that is the way it is - there are hundreds of officers wanting their own boat and with so few boats - replacement is the standard.
Horse manure. There's never been any tolerance for mistakes like this. Collisions have always been career-limiting.
Barring a failure of the sub's propulsion system, the skipper should never have been in this position in the first place.
Oh.
All of them?
"3. Maintain situational awareness to the extent that you do not face a choice between 1 and 2."
Sorry, but approaching Bahrain with a 7,000-ton submarine...Option #3 is frequently not available.
What do you propose to do, sink any ship that gets close to you?
"Shipping lanes to/from ports of call provide for room to move."
Sure--if you're OK with violating someone's territorial waters (this is in the Persian Gulf, which is really small and really shallow).
All of the submarine repairs--that stuff is NOFORN, and Bahrainis are FORN.
Aye, Aye, Sir. I have already been flogged.
The Capt & his 1st Officer's careers in the United States Navy are *over*.
As always.
...discipline will be the order of the day.
Duh!
Would've been better for the Cole.
I know, I know, completely different, but I couldn't resist.
Worst kind of vulnerability is approaching a major port area, and options diminish rapidly as you approach. Understood. Plus, I have no way of knowing what kind of standards were being upheld on the sub at the time. They may have been exceptional.
If his daddy wasn't a powerful senator, and if the rest of his family didn't have so many politicians in their pockets, that would have destroyed his career.
Heh, they most certainly are!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.