Tiny Enceladus [a moon of Saturn] May Hold Ingredients of Life

UANews.org (University of Arizona ) ^ | 05 September 2005 | Lori Stiles

[RightWhale]

There may be life out there, life as we know it, but do they have a FEMA or yellow school buses?

[ThinkDifferent]

I personally believe (and yes this is a belief) that life is replete throughout the universe.

Intuitively I would expect so as well, but I don't have a good answer to the Fermi paradox. Do you?

[AntiGuv]

My view is twofold: (a) interstellar travel is prohibitively difficult and expensive; (b) cosmic-scale engineering is nonsensical to advanced civilizations.

[absolootezer0]

there's gas there? drill! drill!

[RightWhale]

a good answer to the Fermi paradox

A reasonable response might be that the lifetime of species so far as we know appears to average one billion hours. That is, if it doesn't happen within the lifetime of a species, it isn't likely to happen at all. That is barely time for an advanced species to come up with such high tech as MTV and FEMA, or even to notice that the firmament seems to have dissipated.

[Antoninus]

Life may be everywhere.

Or it may only be here. Seeing is believing, after all.

[qam1]

Intuitively I would expect so as well, but I don't have a good answer to the Fermi paradox. Do you?

We could just be unlucky and be in an out of the way part of the Galaxy. We're 2/3s out in a spiral arm, which could be out in the Milky Way boondocks.

For all we know, other lifeforms could exist nearer(25%-50% away) to the center of the Galaxy and be closer to each other and be in communication with each other.

[furball4paws]

Why do you think it will cool down Venus? And what's the chemistry behind getting rid of the SO₂?

[frgoff]

OK. Time to bury this chestnut.

Methane is an organic molecule. So is ethane. So is formaldehyde. However, NONE of the organic molecules found in space are even close in scope to the molecules needed for biological processes.

The organic molecules used in even the simplest life forms are much more complex, and unstable. The big catch-22 of life is that the molecules required for life require life to form.

[AntiGuv]

It sucks being the rednecks of the galaxy. Then again, that might be why we haven't become dinner yet. BTW, to my understanding it's not so much how far out we are as it is that we're not even in the 'core' of the spiral arm. We're somewhere on the edges of the relatively empty space between spiral arms. That's why our immediate stellar neighborhood isn't more heavily populated by stars.

[frgoff]

The answer to Fermi's paradox.

[js1138]

but how often life gets the opportunity to develop past the stage of lichens, mosses, etc.

From what we know it seems to require occasional mass extinctions.

[furball4paws]

"Even more mysterious is the presence of carbonyl sulphide. This gas is so difficult to produce inorganically that it is sometimes considered an unambiguous indicator of biological activity."

Do you have a reference for this? COS is readily produced in gasification processes and is generally toxic for microbes, except some thermophilic anaerobes. Making it pure can be tough, but making it and CS₂ ain't too tough.

Life in the clouds, huh? Something to ponder.

[furball4paws]

If it gets to the stage of mosses and liverworts. etc., then it's gone a long way and further evolution will almost surely occur. If it stays stuck at the procaryotic level then your point makes more microbiological sense.

[Dead Corpse]

Cool down in a couple of ways. One, ice. It melts. That takes heat. Two, gets rid of the SO by the impact blowing it right off the planet. Three, it'll also set up a water cycle on a planet that currently doesn't have a lot with as much water as we have here on Earth. Water vapor clouds will block a bunch of the IR coming in from reaching the ground. That alone will reduce surface temps.

Just off the top of my head....

[AntiGuv]

Your comment is unclear. Does "gassification processes" refer to an abiotic process? Keep in mind that industrial emissions are an unambiguous indicator of biological activity.. According to the EPA, the only abiotic source listed is volcanic activity. Venus has no active volcanoes to our knowledge.

[AntiGuv]

PS. And it's worth noting that carbonyl sulfide photolyzes in the upper atmosphere, so it wouldn't stick around unless there's some kind of replenishment.

[AntiGuv]

PS. And it's worth noting that carbonyl sulfide photolyzes in the upper atmosphere, so it wouldn't stick around unless there's some kind of replenishment.

[AntiGuv]

Dunno how I stuttered! I only hit post once..

[ThinkDifferent]

a) interstellar travel is prohibitively difficult and expensive

Maybe, although I'd expect von Neumann probes or the like would be affordable for a sufficiently advanced civilization.

cosmic-scale engineering is nonsensical to advanced civilizations

Dyson spheres may be more trouble than they're worth, but I'd think they'd at least turn the matter in their solar system into computronium. Although I suppose if their processors are efficient they wouldn't emit much energy for us to detect.