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Federal Judge Rules Pledge Unconstitutional
Foxnews.com ^ | 9/14/2005 | LeanneMSmith

Posted on 09/14/2005 11:54:13 AM PDT by LeanneMSmith

SAN FRANCISCO — The Pledge of Allegiance (search) was ruled unconstitutional Wednesday by a federal judge who granted legal standing to two families represented by an atheist whose previous attempt to get the pledge out of public schools was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aleftistwhomustgo; judgesrobe; letthemknow; nearyourhometown; professorsgown; thestockpilesong

1 posted on 09/14/2005 11:54:28 AM PDT by LeanneMSmith
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To: LeanneMSmith

WTF?


2 posted on 09/14/2005 11:55:28 AM PDT by claudiustg (Vote for one Democrat, vote for them all...)
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To: LeanneMSmith

Michael Newdow lives in Sacramento in zip code 95831.

Now watch as the media says over and over that he lives in Elk Grove, seven miles away. They say this to give you the idea that he has standing in the Elk Grove area and he does not.

This schlemiel is one of my neighbors and I know exactly where he lives. You can find the exact address on the 'Net if you look hard enough but I will not post it here.


3 posted on 09/14/2005 12:01:10 PM PDT by PeterFinn (The Holocaust was perfectly legal.)
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To: LeanneMSmith

Judges running amuck in the blue states.


4 posted on 09/14/2005 12:01:56 PM PDT by nisgro
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To: LeanneMSmith

Asphole


5 posted on 09/14/2005 12:03:05 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: LeanneMSmith

Total insanity from the s@@thole of liberalism. This leftist judge did not have to be bound by precedent. While precedent does play a part, she could have fought it, but chose not to, because of HER OWN POLITICAL STANDING....

Liberalism is a disease of the mind -- and it permeates our judical system, which continually urinates all over our Constitution...


6 posted on 09/14/2005 12:03:57 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: PeterFinn

Well, again this will be ruled unconstitutional one way or the other by the Supreme Court.

Michael Newdow is a little twit!


7 posted on 09/14/2005 12:06:22 PM PDT by Halls (Terri Schindler Schiavo was murdered legally in our country, NEVER FORGET!!!)
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To: Halls

I hope so and, yes, he is.


8 posted on 09/14/2005 12:07:43 PM PDT by PeterFinn (The Holocaust was perfectly legal.)
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To: LeanneMSmith

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm


The Pledge of Allegiance
A Short History
by Dr. John W. Baer

Copyright 1992 by Dr. John W. Baer
See also www.PledgeQandA.com



Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...

If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'



Bibliography:

Baer, John. The Pledge of Allegiance, A Centennial History, 1892 - 1992, Annapolis, Md. Free State Press, Inc., 1992.
Miller, Margarette S. Twenty-Three Words, Portsmouth, Va. Printcraft Press, 1976.


9 posted on 09/14/2005 12:13:13 PM PDT by Red Badger (BLAME = Democrat .......BALM = Republican.........Which would an evacuee choose?......)
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To: Red Badger

[img]http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/ladyj.gif[/img]

So what's that next to the lady's right foot? Could that be the 10 Commandments -- on the homepage of the ultra left, no religion in public life, 9th. Circuit?


10 posted on 09/14/2005 12:18:48 PM PDT by Bushwacker777
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To: PeterFinn

but you can write or call this traitor scumbag judge karlton at:

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton
501 I Street, Suite. 4-200
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: (916) 930-4000

and let it know what a traitor he is to our country. Declaring the pledge of allegiance unconstitutional. I thought I heard it all...


11 posted on 09/14/2005 12:19:04 PM PDT by Jazzman1
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To: Bushwacker777

http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov


12 posted on 09/14/2005 12:20:09 PM PDT by Bushwacker777
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: LeanneMSmith

The next thing that these stupid judges are probably going to rule unconstitutional is the United States itself...


14 posted on 09/14/2005 12:28:38 PM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("Si vis pacem para bellum")
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To: LeanneMSmith

Time for a new pledge..

I pledge allegiance to myself and screw everyone else in America.

And to the Republic, whatever that is.

One nation, no god. Multi-cultural, with political correctness for all.


15 posted on 09/14/2005 12:30:33 PM PDT by Trampled by Lambs (This Tagline is on hiatus as I think of a new one.)
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To: Bushwacker777

LINKEE NO WORKEE........


16 posted on 09/14/2005 12:30:45 PM PDT by Red Badger (BLAME = Democrat .......BALM = Republican.........Which would an evacuee choose?......)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: LeanneMSmith
whose previous attempt to get the pledge out of public schools was rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court

Listen for it? Here it comes...cert denied!.

18 posted on 09/14/2005 12:41:00 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (If you don't like Jesus, you can go to hell.)
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To: LeanneMSmith
It's not the pledge that's unconstitutional, it's the reference to "under God"... which means that the pledge I remember from my own childhood would be fine. I don't think the ruling is unreasonable, although a simple reference to "God" without any doctrine seems to me to be a long ways from establishing a state church. Still, slippery slopes and all that.

A better reason for getting rid of the phrase is that it's flaming hypocrisy; the state does not defer its secular power to any other force, making its claim to be 'under' God an empty piety.

19 posted on 09/14/2005 12:52:23 PM PDT by Grut
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To: LeanneMSmith
Next up: US Currency is found unconstitutional...the Constitution is found unconstitutional...
20 posted on 09/14/2005 1:06:37 PM PDT by solowe
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To: Red Badger
A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

Well this cuts to the heart of the matter. Equality superceding liberty means of course no liberty at all.

21 posted on 09/14/2005 1:07:14 PM PDT by XpandTheEkonomy
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To: XpandTheEkonomy

Egaltarian French nonsense...........


22 posted on 09/14/2005 1:11:27 PM PDT by Red Badger (BLAME = Democrat .......BALM = Republican.........Which would an evacuee choose?......)
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To: Grut

I agree that we should return the pledge to the pre 1954 version. Not all citizens of this great nation are religious. Others are. Our pledge should be one which can be spoken by all citizens without hypocracy. I cannot say "under God" in the pledge, since I have no belief in any deities. So I don't.

Something I've noticed from time to time while reciting the pledge is that many, since the original Newdow ruling, emphasise the "under God" phrase, often making it sound even a bit like a curse. Not the best thing.

The worst thing I ever saw, though, with regard to the Pledge was at a Memorial Day function I attended at a local cemetary while I was living in California.

An elderly couple attended the function with some local residents. When it came time to salute the flag, they stood mute and didn't recite the Pledge. After the ceremony, this guy in a WWII Marine Dress uniform, with a VFW cap on his head, started yelling at this older couple, accusing them of a lack of patriotism, calling them traitors and worse. He went on for a while until someone pointed out to him that the couple were British, visiting friends in the town. Apparently they had come to the ceremony to pay their respects to those who lost their lives defending England.

A little thought is required, I think, with regard to all of this.


23 posted on 09/14/2005 1:11:27 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Virginia Ridgerunner

"The next thing that these stupid judges are probably going to rule unconstitutional is the United States itself."

The United States shold be ruled unconstitutional, imo.
Then maybe we could get abou the business of fixing that.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
aside:

The Supreme Court dismissed the case last year, saying Newdow lacked standing because he did not have custody of his elementary school daughter he sued on behalf of.

I seem to recall that a preposition was something we were taught not to end a sentence ;) with. Silly me...


24 posted on 09/14/2005 1:18:19 PM PDT by Apogee
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To: Halls
The smallest percentage of people in this country ruin it for the rest of us and are so selfish.
Some people just need their 15 mins of shame .. opps, I meant fame ,,,,, isn't that right Cindy ?
25 posted on 09/14/2005 1:20:38 PM PDT by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The FOOL hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: MineralMan
I cannot say "under God" in the pledge, since I have no belief in any deities.

That's fine, just don't force your immorality on me at the point of a gun.

THEN you must also shun using the BC/AD Christian calender because it makes you be a hypocrite too? Isn't it the year of the RAT or something?

And you don't participate in Christmas then either, right?

26 posted on 09/14/2005 1:34:23 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (If you don't like Jesus, you can go to hell.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

"That's fine, just don't force your immorality on me at the point of a gun.

THEN you must also shun using the BC/AD Christian calender because it makes you be a hypocrite too? Isn't it the year of the RAT or something?

And you don't participate in Christmas then either, right?"




I force nothing on anybody. I'm just telling you what I do.

As for BC/AD, I use them because they are the accepted method of assigning a date to two different eras. However, I cannot, for the life of me, remember the last time I used them. It might have been in college, over 35 years ago. I don't generally write 2005 A.D. on my checks.

As for Christmas, I participate in that holiday when others around me celebrate it. This year, I'm in charge of making the Christmas dinner for about 16 family members.

The whole point here is as you have stated it: Force. Force me to say a pledge that includes a reference to a belief in a deity and you're forcing me to lie. I'm not asking you to say the Pledge in any particular way. You're welcome to say whatever you wish. There's no force coming from me on this issue.


27 posted on 09/14/2005 1:40:29 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: LeanneMSmith

Carter appointee...


28 posted on 09/14/2005 1:41:59 PM PDT by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, DemocRATs believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
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To: MineralMan
When did Cesar Augustus rein? Year of the cow? Don't write AD on your checks LOL.

If you celebrate Christmas you are a hypocrite. I thought that was your whole objection.

And the force would be against me because Under God was forcibly removed. No one compels you, at the point of a gun, you to say Under God...yet you're happy to take that right from me even though it's the "accepted method" of saying the pledge. The force is aginst me, not you.

29 posted on 09/14/2005 1:57:12 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (If you don't like Jesus, you can go to hell.)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

I'm fairly certain no one would force you to not say "under God," if this is what you choose to do, especially not gun point.


30 posted on 09/14/2005 2:02:47 PM PDT by cubram
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To: Clint N. Suhks

"If you celebrate Christmas you are a hypocrite. I thought that was your whole objection."

Not at all. I celebrate with those who consider it an important holiday. I've celebrated Jewish holidays with Jews, and Buddhist holidays with Buddhists. I've even celebrated at weddings that I thought were ill-advised.

A celebration has nothing to do with my beliefs. Most of my friends are Christian. A few are Jewish, and even fewer are Buddhists. I celebrate with them. If they pray, I am silently respectful of THEIR faith.

You can say the Pledge however you want. I'll never object to that. I'll say it the way I learned it in 1951 when I was in first grade.

I'll never say a thing to you about your version of the pledge, and I assume you will afford me the same respect. I am a patriotic American citizen. I've served in my nation's military, and have taken an oath to defend the Constitution.

However, deities have nothing to do with my love of the USA. Principles do. And one of those guiding principles makes my disbelief equal to your belief. I respect your belief, and will ask you to respect my disbelief. We'll get along just fine.


31 posted on 09/14/2005 2:03:22 PM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: LeanneMSmith

President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved adding the words "under God" on June 14 (Flag Day), 1954. As he authorized this change he said:

"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."


32 posted on 09/14/2005 3:39:57 PM PDT by solowe
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