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Why New Orleans Flooded
Newsmax ^ | Sept 13, 2005 | Phil Brennan

Posted on 09/15/2005 2:58:55 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog

A steel barge that came crashing into one of the levee walls, and not the failure of that levee to hold back an immense tidal wave, was to blame for much of the flooding that drowned parts of New Orleans.

Lying an average of seven feet below sea level, surrounded by the waters of Lake Ponchartrain, the Mississippi River and Lake Borgne, which separates Lake Pontchartrain from the Gulf of Mexico, and protected by a series of sinking levees, the city of New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen.

It happened on August 29, 2005, just as the city was breathing a collective sigh of relief that hurricane Katrina had not been as bad as predicted.

It turned out to be far worse, not because of the destructive winds of a Category Four hurricane, but because three massive walls of water spurred by those winds inundated many parts of the city after the winds moved away.

As politicians play the blame game, many facts about the roots of the disaster have either been overlooked or deliberately ignored because they are inconvenient to those seeking to put the onus for the tragedy upon their political targets. One of them was the story behind the flood that turned a major disaster into a catastrophe of immense magnitude.

In a fact-filled retrospective that told the full story, the Wall Street Journal explained in great detail just what happened when much of the Big Easy became an adjunct of Lake Ponchartrain.

The Journal told the truth, but the truth hurts when you are seeking to put your spin on the assignment of blame. So the remainder of the media simply ignored a story the American people are entitled to know.

Facts Ignored and Not Investigated

Among the facts exposed of the Journal which the mainstream media has studiously ignored:

# In two cases, storm-driven water, far higher than the levees were designed to hold back (up to 15 feet of tidal surge), overwhelmed them and went pouring down on parts of the city. According to the Journal, the waves inundated the mostly working-class eastern districts, home to 160,000 people. In some places, the water rose as fast as a foot per minute, survivors told the Journal. These levees did not break.

According to engineers, scientists, local officials and the accounts of nearly 90 survivors of Katrina interviewed by the Journal, the first of the three waves swept from the north out of Lake Pontchartrain.

The wave of undetermined height poured over 15-foot-high levees along the Industrial Canal, which were several feet lower than others in the central areas of the city. Wrote the Journal: "About the same time, a similar wave exploded without warning across Lake Borgne, which separates Lake Pontchartrain from the Gulf of Mexico. It filled the lake, engulfed its surrounding marshes, raced over levees and poured into eastern New Orleans."

# Another huge wave came across Lake Pontchartrain in the north. It sent a steel barge ramming through the Industrial Canal, a major shipping artery that cuts north to south through the city, possibly creating a breach that grew to 500 feet, letting water pour into nearby neighborhoods of the city's Ninth Ward.

The barge's remains were found lying on the bottom of the gap. An early eyewitness reported seeing the barge smash through the levee. His report was never followed up by the media.

Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that break was particularly surprising because one of the levee breaks was "along a section that was just upgraded."

"It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland told the New York Times. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."

Vital repairs for which a whopping $600 million had been appropriated by the federal government were stopped after residents of the Ninth Ward complained about the noise created by the repair project and sued to halt it.M/b>

The Industrial Canal, now operated and maintained mostly by the federal government, which the Journal described as "the area's defining presence since it was built in the 1920s," has been damaged by the passage of time and heavy use.

Barges and ships were routinely delayed because of growing traffic levels and the lock was "literally falling apart at the hinges" in 1998, according to a U.S. Army Corps of Engineers report, which called it an "antique" and recommended replacing it.

The lock replacement project didn't get very far because Ninth Ward residents complained about noise and launched a legal fight that bogged down the work.

Levees Not Tall Enough

The levees along the Industrial Canal's eastern side are supposed to stand at a height of 15 feet, according to the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

Joseph Suhayda, a retired Louisiana State University coastal oceanographer, who told the Journal he suspects the levees aren't actually that tall, partly due to sinking of the land beneath them. Mr. Suhayda now consults for a maker of flood-protection barriers. If he's right, that would mean the levees weren't high enough to handle even a Category 2 or 3 hurricane. Katrina was nearly a Category 5.

The Corps of Engineers concedes some of its levees in the area "have settled and need to be raised to provide" the level of protection for which they were designed, according to a fact sheet on the Corps's Web site dated May 23, 2005. But federal budget shortfalls in fiscal 2005 and 2006 "will prevent the Corps from addressing these pressing needs." Even had sufficient funds been available the work could not have been completed in time to prevent the Katrina floods.

Designed for the Mississippi, Not the Gulf

In an earlier September 2 story the Journal noted that in Louisiana, coastal wetlands provide some shelter from surging seawater, but more than one million acres of coastal wetlands have been lost since 1930 due to development and construction of levees and canals. For every square mile of wetland lost, storm surges rise by one foot.

"Moreover, the levees in New Orleans were built to keep the city from being flooded by the Mississippi, but instead caused it to fall below sea level. Now the Gulf of Mexico has moved into the city," says the Journal.

As the hurricane rolled into New Orleans, scores of boats broke free or sank. In the Industrial Canal, the gush of water broke a barge from its moorings. It isn't known whose barge it was. The huge steel hull became a water-borne missile. It hurtled into the canal's eastern flood wall just north of the major street passing through the Lower Ninth Ward, leading officials to theorize that the errant barge triggered the 500-foot breach. Water poured into the neighborhood.

When the storm was over, the barge was resting inside the hole. "Based on what I know and what I saw, the Lower Ninth Ward, Chalmette, St. Bernard, their flooding was instantaneous," said Col. Rich Wagenaar of the Army Corps.

It didn't help that the Mississippi River, which runs along the southern border of these neighborhoods, rose 11 feet between Sunday and Monday mornings. Coastal experts say that could have worsened flooding by limiting the water's escape route.

As the water roaring out of the Industrial Canal turned the streets of eastern New Orleans into rivers, the same areas were hit from the other side by the storm surge coming off Lake Borgne. Engineers say the estimated 20-foot surge also appeared to overflow levees just north of St. Bernard Parish. Shrimp boats were dumped in a marshy section between Lake Borgne and the city.

Responsibilities Unfulfilled

The city of New Orleans issued a "Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan" for hurricanes well before Katrina arrived. The city accepted the responsibility for issuing a warning, ordering and managing evacuation, arranging for buses for those without any other transportation, setting up and maintaining shelters, and other critical duties.

As one editorialist wrote, "Given the corruption in municipal agencies - one not necessarily cynical Louisiana politician (Billy Tauzin) said some time ago that "Half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment" - it was inevitable that a picture of responsibilities unfulfilled would emerge after a storm like Katrina."

Among the city's self-proclaimed responsibilities was the job of the mayor to order an evacuation 48 hours before the hurricane came ashore, not 24, hours, as Mayor Nagin did; the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority was meant to "position supervisors and dispatch evacuation buses" to evacuate at least some of the "100,000 citizens of New Orleans [who] do not have means of personal transportation," but it did not, and the flood claimed the buses.

Moreover, the city was responsible for establishing shelters co-ordinated with "food and supply distribution sites" which the American Red Cross, the Salvation Army and others were to provision, but the city did not.

Both agencies provided the supplies but as Fox cable News correspondent Major Garret revealed, they were barred by local authorities from delivering them to those stranded in the city at places such as the Superdome who most needed them in the immediate aftermath of the storm.

As the Journal reported on September 2, city officials appear to have been well aware of their responsibilities. As late Aug. 1, officials close to the planning confirmed to the New Orleans Times-Picayune that the transit authority had developed plans to use its own buses, school buses, and even trains to move refugees from the city when disaster struck.

Failed Execution of the Plan

Part of its "Future Plans" section, for example, concerns the levees. It also includes discussion of "the preparation of a post-disaster plan that will identify programs and actions that will reduce of eliminate the exposure of human life and property to natural hazards."

In 9,000 words, there are only four references to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. Nowhere, not even in a section on catastrophic events, do the words "Department of Homeland Security" appear.

The city declared that its hurricane preparedness procedures were "designed to deal with the anticipation of a direct hit from a major hurricane." Such a hurricane hit, and New Orleans was not prepared. The first questions that legislators in Washington and in Baton Rouge should be asking are simple: Why didn't the buses run? Why were people left to starve? Where did all those dollars go?

What the Journal reported showed the immense magnitude of the disaster and explained what created a catastrophe beyond anything most people in New Orleans anticipated. The real cause of the tragedy lay in the history of the city's below sea level location – a fact that can be traced back to the city's founding.

The attempts to prevent the Mississippi from rising over its banks and flooding the area has been a recurring problem, as have the miscalculations surrounding the ability of the dikes to deal with storms even less severe than Hurricane Katrina.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: flooding; katrina; leveebreak; levees; neworleans
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They did it to themselves???
1 posted on 09/15/2005 2:58:56 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog

Bush, Cheney, and Rove personally set bombs under the levees. How do I know? Because a f***ing racist POS psycho...er...um...I mean the Honorable Minister Farrakhan said so.


2 posted on 09/15/2005 3:04:48 AM PDT by rickmichaels (Support America, Buy American)
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To: rickmichaels
No, we in the VRWC did it with our sub-orbital laser weapons. By heating the dirt with our partical beam laser, it caused the dirt to soften, thus releasing it's cohesiveness, and allowing it to melt, thus releasing the levee. Then, we at the VRWC HQ (see pic) popped the tops on some brews and HAW-HAWed over it all.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com
3 posted on 09/15/2005 3:10:07 AM PDT by highlymotivated (If American ever falls, a STINKING LIBERAL will be behind it.)
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To: rickmichaels
"I mean the Honorable Minister Farrakhan said so."

Farrakhan "is" a nutcase, in't he?? It seems to be "a Muslim thing", as such outrageous scenarios seem to spring forth from them on a regular basis, whether "black" or "regular" variety.

4 posted on 09/15/2005 3:11:08 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Wonder Warthog

The Wall Street Journal's narration of events was made early on. It possibly is not correct. See:
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09_13.html#079207

For a later summary.


5 posted on 09/15/2005 3:11:32 AM PDT by Wisconsin
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To: Wonder Warthog

Bookmark


6 posted on 09/15/2005 3:17:10 AM PDT by listenhillary (The MEDIA is NOT a branch of government)
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To: Wonder Warthog

bttt


7 posted on 09/15/2005 3:19:03 AM PDT by PogySailor (Good luck to my son & buddies in the 1/11 Marines deploying to Iraq)
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To: Wonder Warthog

bump


8 posted on 09/15/2005 3:19:10 AM PDT by KSCITYBOY
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To: Wonder Warthog
"Half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment"

Truer words were never spoken!

9 posted on 09/15/2005 3:26:45 AM PDT by orlop9
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To: Wisconsin

Hmm the Journal or the City of NO. I guess I will side with the Journal and suspect that the City doesn't really want to confront the facts.


10 posted on 09/15/2005 3:36:44 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (Professional Journalism the Buggy Whip makers of the 21st century)
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To: Wonder Warthog

If you listen to a bunch of black civil rights leaders (Farrakhan, Jesse, etc.), it was everyones fault except what it probably was.


11 posted on 09/15/2005 4:05:05 AM PDT by WasDougsLamb (just my opinion. Go easy on me.)
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To: MNJohnnie

The Nola report in my mind is far more alarming than the WSJ.

In essence it says:

The failures may have been caused by design or structural failures of the updated flood walls while still within the designed load.



If this is the case (and this is a "may" not a surety), then to my mind it is immoral to allow people back into New orleans before the problem is fixed. The probability of a hurricane hitting New Orleans now is no more and no less that it was a week before Katrina.

The difference is that we now suspect that the structures that protect New orleans from flooding are defective -- not that their failure was the result of a monster storm, but that they may not be up to more modest and more likely hurricane.


This is like allowing people to fly on a particular model airliner after one of them had its wing fall off in minor turbulence.


12 posted on 09/15/2005 4:20:45 AM PDT by Wisconsin
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To: Wonder Warthog

bump


13 posted on 09/15/2005 4:32:21 AM PDT by RippleFire ("It's a joke, son!")
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To: Wonder Warthog

There were reports out of New Orleans that local authorities intentionally blew up a section of the levee to save the French Quarter and homes in wealthy neighborhoods. One must believe the witnesses who were there and heard the blast.


14 posted on 09/15/2005 4:36:08 AM PDT by ex-Texan (Mathew 7:1 through 6)
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To: Wonder Warthog; Howlin; neverdem

Good summary of actions and requirements in LA.

This early story, however, may need updates as more dike/canal breach info is uncovered.


15 posted on 09/15/2005 4:40:18 AM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (-I contribute to FR monthly, but ABBCNNBCBS supports Hillary's Secular Sexual Socialism every day.)
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To: orlop9
"Half of Louisiana is under water and the other half is under indictment"

Truer words were never spoken!

Been using as my tag line now for 2 weeks, changing to give credit where credit is due...

16 posted on 09/15/2005 4:41:02 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (Billy Tauzin about Louisiana: "half the state is under water, the other half is under indictment")
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To: ex-Texan
"There were reports out of New Orleans that local authorities intentionally blew up a section of the levee to save the French Quarter and homes in wealthy neighborhoods. One must believe the witnesses who were there and heard the blast."

Someone needs to explain "how" blowing up a section of levee could "save the French quarter and homes in wealthy neighborhoods", since the French Quarter is on the highest land in the city, as are many of the oldest homes and "wealthiest" neighborhoods, and many OTHER wealthy neighborhoods are right along Lake Ponchartrain in the lowest part of the city.

17 posted on 09/15/2005 5:08:55 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
"This early story, however, may need updates as more dike/canal breach info is uncovered."

Absolutely agree. This just happened to be the most complete single summary I have seen thus far. I'm sure that in 12-18 months, the Corps of Engineers will have a complete engineering report, with both math models and experimental verification from their laboratories in Vicksburg.

And once that information is in, I'm sure that future governors of Louisiana and mayors of New Orleans will ignore it, just as they have all the other reports (do you think maybe I'm overly pessimistic??).

18 posted on 09/15/2005 5:12:37 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Wonder Warthog
I don't understand why the taxpayers (us) should foot the bill to rebuild NO. Rarely is the rest of the Gulf Coast and their complete devestation mentioned. The NO in your face whiners get all the mention.

Now they want 200 BILLION dollars? I suppose we just hand it over to the likes of Blanco and Nagin to manage? Wow, you just know that the corrupt NO politicians are salivating over the WINDFALL.

Is this America?

19 posted on 09/15/2005 5:35:21 AM PDT by Amityschild (I may be gullible BUT I'm not a DUmmie!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
IIRC a freeper's mother told him that she saw and heard the barge hit the canal wall. That was the first report I saw of the incident.

The Army Corp announced and did blow a few levees in several places to let the water out.

20 posted on 09/15/2005 5:37:09 AM PDT by Vinnie
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To: highlymotivated
"No, we in the VRWC did it with our sub-orbital laser weapons. By heating the dirt with our partical beam laser, it caused the dirt to soften, thus releasing it's cohesiveness, and allowing it to melt, thus releasing the levee. Then, we at the VRWC HQ (see pic) popped the tops on some brews and HAW-HAWed over it all."

Wait a minute.

I thought I was a member in good standing of the VRWC. I paid my dues (which, by the way, went up this year), and I have attended the required number of meetings. I even have been instructed on the latest secret handshake.

I was told that our sub-orbital laser devices (not to be called "weapons" outside the confines of the VRWC) were ultra-Top-Secret.

Am I wrong? Is #1 still upset because I didn't compliment him on his tie at the VRWC Annual (Secret) Dinner?

21 posted on 09/15/2005 5:39:09 AM PDT by chs68
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To: Wonder Warthog

This is as crazy as when people were saying the Clinton administration bombed the Murrah Building.


22 posted on 09/15/2005 5:40:24 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: Wonder Warthog
From the article: "In an earlier September 2 story the Journal noted that in Louisiana, coastal wetlands provide some shelter from surging seawater, but more than one million acres of coastal wetlands have been lost since 1930 due to development and construction of levees and canals. For every square mile of wetland lost, storm surges rise by one foot.

At 640 acres to the square mile, this means that NOLA was flooded by a 1600-ft tall storm surge....

Or yet another reporter went through public "education".

23 posted on 09/15/2005 5:40:57 AM PDT by Fudd (Bang bang bang bang bang - reload - bang bang bang bang bang)
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To: Wonder Warthog; fastattacksailor; swordfish71; broadsword; Nesher; Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; ...
Good post, WW.

Sometimes Sh%t Happens PING!

It's really interesting how much the MSM doesn't report.

24 posted on 09/15/2005 5:41:25 AM PDT by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Yep, there it is. Karl Rove's "Barge o' Doom" comes through for the Administration. ;)


25 posted on 09/15/2005 5:42:45 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: Wonder Warthog; DoughtyOne; EagleUSA; dixiechick2000; devolve; potlatch
NOLA - KATRINA pings.

(Sit down before you read - NOLA residents resisted Lake Ponchatrain repairs that would have likely prevented the disaster.)

====================================

Vital repairs for which a whopping $600 million had been appropriated by the federal government were stopped after residents of the Ninth Ward complained about the noise created by the repair project and sued to halt it.

26 posted on 09/15/2005 5:51:07 AM PDT by Happy2BMe (Viva La MIGRA - LONG LIVE THE BORDER PATROL!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
According to Louis Farrakhan, the levees were deliberately destroyed in order to wipe out poor blacks in New Orleans. He said there was supposedly a big crater under one of the levees that could prove his theory.

I couldn't find the link to the article, or I would post it.

27 posted on 09/15/2005 5:55:52 AM PDT by Jess Kitting
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To: Wonder Warthog
Before Hurricane Katrina breached a levee on the New Orleans Industrial Canal, the Army Corps of Engineers had already launched a $748 million construction project at that very location. But the project had nothing to do with flood control. The Corps was building a huge new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic. Except that barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.

In Katrina's wake, Louisiana politicians and other critics have complained about paltry funding for the Army Corps in general and Louisiana projects in particular. But over the five years of President Bush's administration, Louisiana has received far more money for Corps civil works projects than any other state, about $1.9 billion; California was a distant second with less than $1.4 billion, even though its population is more than seven times as large. -- Source

28 posted on 09/15/2005 5:58:19 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Fudd

No.

I checked the math. Only 1,562 - 1,563 ft of storm surge due to the lost wetlands.

Can't believe you would exaggerate such an important statistic! 1,600 ft, indeed!

(c8


29 posted on 09/15/2005 6:24:56 AM PDT by NonLinear (He's dead, Jim)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The Corps was building a huge new lock for the canal, an effort to accommodate steadily increasing barge traffic. Except that barge traffic on the canal has been steadily decreasing.

Maybe because the locks were shot? Just guessing on that one...
30 posted on 09/15/2005 6:27:41 AM PDT by NonLinear (He's dead, Jim)
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To: Wonder Warthog
"Why New Orleans Flooded"

Easy.

Gravity.

OK next question.

31 posted on 09/15/2005 6:32:13 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: Wonder Warthog

WSJ probably has a good handle on what the witnesses say, but they're missing a couple of significant components.

1. The sat imagery in this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1484919/posts

...show that east Orleans (east of the Industrial Canal) probably did not flood from topped levees in the Canal, and also indicate a significant surge was funneled west along the Intercoastal Waterway, part of which continued west, topping the western Canal levees and flooding a significant portion of northeastern downtown (corroborated by early news reports, but not later ones, as you;d expect from a short lived surge event topping levees but not breaching them),

...and the other part of which flowed south down the Canal, tearing the barge loose and putting it through the concrete wall. From the pictures, the barge currently sits southeast of the breach, indicating both its southerly and easterly velocity component when it breached the wall.

However, this does not explain two separate issues. One, why the entire area flooded so quickly (a quick over view of the area indicates the disparity in size between the Industrial Canal and the flooded areas of the Ninth Ward and St.Bernard's Parish, and two, the oft posted images showing water flowing OUT of St. Bernard into the canal, along with reports that this area filled so high that "we can't see the tops of the levees any more".

This thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1484668/posts

...indicates significant subsidence affected the levees on the northeastern edges of St. Bernards Parish, lowering what were supposed to be 17 foot levees to in some cases as low as 6.6 feet above sea level, as far back as 1999.

Per the WSJ article posted in this thread and others, officials are now trying to claim that Katrina washed away those low levee sections, through others as noted in the article above, admit that subsidence played a part years before the storm arrived.

Still looking for the failure mechanism for the 17th street canal, and the mechanism which allowed east Orleans Parish to flood.

Early assessments indicate that the 17th street levee was probably topped, based on a 0345 Monday report from Kenner that the canal NW of there (with walls the same height as the 17th street Canal) was full at that time.

Early assessments also indicate that east Orleans probably flooded from a heightened surge funneled between the seawalls north of St. Bernard's and south of east Orleans, but I also believe that there probably was a breach somewhere out that way because of the manner in which east Orleans flooded, early and full.

In any event, I'd like like to firm these two suppositions up, so if anyone comes across engineering or other reports that bear on the issues, a ping would be appreciated.


32 posted on 09/15/2005 6:45:38 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: GreenEggsNHam

Ping and bookmark.


33 posted on 09/15/2005 6:47:12 AM PDT by ericthecurdog (NOBODY puts BABY in the corner!!)
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To: ex-Texan
There were reports out of New Orleans that local authorities intentionally blew up a section of the levee to save the French Quarter and homes in wealthy neighborhoods. One must believe the witnesses who were there and heard the blast.

Yeah.........sure. They just happened to have an azzload of explosives lying about.

34 posted on 09/15/2005 6:50:05 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: jeffers
"WSJ probably has a good handle on what the witnesses say, but they're missing a couple of significant components."

Good additional information----thanks. I'm sure that this will all be accounted for in the "final" Corps of Engineers report. The Corp has some pretty damned good staff engineers and scientists up at Vicksburg.

"...indicates significant subsidence affected the levees on the northeastern edges of St. Bernards Parish, lowering what were supposed to be 17 foot levees to in some cases as low as 6.6 feet above sea level, as far back as 1999."

Yeah, I saw that thread. Someone needs to ask some VERY POINTED QUESTIONS of the St. Bernard Parish Levee Board.

35 posted on 09/15/2005 6:59:35 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: AppyPappy

Meth Lab?


36 posted on 09/15/2005 7:00:42 AM PDT by hoosiermama (Loon Landrieu & Co good name for a flood control business...Motto:"We got dikes!")
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To: Wonder Warthog
As the hurricane rolled into New Orleans, scores of boats broke free or sank. In the Industrial Canal, the gush of water broke a barge from its moorings. It isn't known whose barge it was.

Something tells me that no one is going to come forward and say it was their barge that was not properly secured and caused the levee breech.

37 posted on 09/15/2005 7:02:04 AM PDT by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

'Cause its a coast city below sea level?


38 posted on 09/15/2005 7:03:31 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: ex-Texan

There were several on TV that heard a blast. It will be intersting to see what happened. I really don't think Nagin had his act together good enough to do something that required that much foresight.


39 posted on 09/15/2005 7:04:38 AM PDT by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: Nov3
"Something tells me that no one is going to come forward and say it was their barge that was not properly secured and caused the levee breech."

I doubt that it was a question of "properly secured". I suspect a LOT of barges got "broken loose" by the winds and storm surge, even though they WERE "properly secured".

I saw one video clip where the Corps of Engineers was trying to "break loose" a barge with a massive crane, so they could use it in fixing the levee breaks. The barge had been broken loose and washed well up on shore, and they were using the on-board crane and THREE tugs to try to pull the barge back into "floatable depth water".

40 posted on 09/15/2005 7:09:26 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: ex-Texan
There were reports out of New Orleans that local authorities intentionally blew up a section of the levee to save the French Quarter and homes in wealthy neighborhoods. One must believe the witnesses who were there and heard the blast.

So we're supposed to just accept these 'reports' as true?

The mayor said there would be 10,000 dead. It was 'reported'. That didn't make it true.

Someone said that cannibalism was occurring within days of the flooding. It was 'reported'. That didn't make it true.

Sorry, it's going to take a bit more than anonymous 'reports' to convince me that it happened.

41 posted on 09/15/2005 7:15:01 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Wonder Warthog
I doubt that it was a question of "properly secured".

You and I may see that, but I doubt a lawyer would agree with that.

42 posted on 09/15/2005 7:41:13 AM PDT by Nov3 ("This is the best election night in history." --DNC chair Terry McAuliffe Nov. 2,2004 8p.m.)
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To: Nov3

Yeah, they heard a blast all right.

Hundred or thousand ton barges don't pierce 200 feet of yards thick concrete quietly.

The NWS released a Flood Warning at 0814 Monday morning as Katrina came ashore, noting the report that a barge had breached a levee.

The Kenner cops closed shop and hunkered down at 0400 that same morning, for the simple reason that human beings don't walk around in hundred and forty mile an hour winds.

They fly.

I've been very close to loosing my footing at winds below 70 mph, propped up on crampons and a pair of ski poles and braced.

Any demolition teams that were out between 0700 and 0900 Monday morning fooling around with the levees are now in northern Mississippi, impaled on trees.


43 posted on 09/15/2005 7:43:36 AM PDT by jeffers
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To: Nov3
"You and I may see that, but I doubt a lawyer would agree with that."

Proper language, please!!! The proper terminology for this type of legal professional would be either "shyster" or "ambulance chaser"---not "lawyer".

44 posted on 09/15/2005 7:46:31 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: All

I think people that say it was blown up and people that say a barge hit it don't really know what they heck they are talking about. If you look at the pictures of the 17th street canal you can see the plates look like they just folded down.

The levee itself is earthen. The plates sit on the eathen levee. When the water pressure weakened the earthen levee it sagged, the plates above it loosened at the seams and folded down. The levee was made to withstand a cat 3 storm. The amount of water that came in with the cat 4/5 was just too much pressure on the earthen part of the levee.


45 posted on 09/15/2005 8:01:15 AM PDT by Elyse
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To: kjenerette

...reading.


46 posted on 09/15/2005 8:38:06 AM PDT by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...If We Can Keep It!)
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To: Wonder Warthog
This story is way too long and complex, let's just keep blaming Bush.
47 posted on 09/15/2005 8:42:56 AM PDT by handy (Forgive me this day, my daily typos...The Truth is not a Smear!)
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To: highlymotivated

Pinky the Brain wants to see you in his top secret chamber RIGHT NOW.


48 posted on 09/15/2005 8:48:57 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Wonder Warthog

No, this is misdirection. The lock (the subject of the project in question) did not fail. If it had, the Mississippi River would have been pouring into the city, and the flooding would have been much, much worse.


49 posted on 09/15/2005 9:42:28 AM PDT by lugsoul (Sleeper troll since 1999.)
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To: lugsoul
"The lock (the subject of the project in question) did not fail. If it had, the Mississippi River would have been pouring into the city, and the flooding would have been much, much worse."

I don't see where the article says (or even implies) that the lock failed---it just says that it was an antique, and needed to be replaced.

50 posted on 09/15/2005 9:56:19 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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