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Birthplace of famous Mars meteorite pinpointed
New Scientist ^ | 9/16/05 | David L Chandler

Posted on 09/16/2005 9:44:14 AM PDT by LibWhacker

The original home of the world's most famous space rock, the Allen Hills Martian meteorite, has now been identified, thanks to data from the orbiting spacecraft Mars Global Surveyor and Mars Odyssey and a better understanding of cratering dynamics.

The rock, called ALH84001, has been the subject of intense study ever since 1996 when scientists from NASA's Johnson Space Center startled the world by reporting that fossilised microbial life might be embedded inside it. The rock, which formed at the very dawn of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago, was blasted from the surface of Mars around 17 million years ago by an impact and made its way to Earth, landing in Antarctica.

While the claim remains highly controversial, the JSC scientists say further study has bolstered the evidence for fossilised life in ALH84001. So the discovery of the rock's place of origin on Mars could make that spot a strong candidate for a future landing by robots or people searching for extraterrestrial life.

The analysis, based on the rock's mineral characteristics, was presented by Vicky Hamilton of the University of Hawaii at this week's meeting of the Meteoritical Society in Tennessee, US.

Perfect match

Hamilton looked for matches between the laboratory spectrum of the meteorite, a mix of orthopyroxene and basaltic minerals, and data from the Thermal Emission Spectrometer and other instruments on the orbiters. "There was only this one place, in all the places we can look that aren't too dusty, that had a composition that was consistent with the ALH84001," Hamilton told New Scientist.

The site is in the Eos Chasma, a branch of the enormous Valles Marineris canyon system. Hamilton has examined it further using topographic and thermal data and high-resolution imagery. "Putting this all together, it's all consistent with this being the source region," she said.

The pinpointed area is a “lobate flow”, the kind that occurs when an impacting object strikes a fluid-rich soil, as is the case with many Martian craters. There is a crater about 20 kilometres in diameter there, which cratering studies have now shown indicates a large enough impact to eject the rock out of Mars' gravitational field.

There is no single "smoking gun" piece of evidence that proves this was the place the meteorite came from, Hamilton concedes: "There isn't any piece of information that makes this a unique interpretation, other than the fact that we haven't seen any other suitable places."

Fascinating picture

Everett Gibson, one of the JSC scientists behind the original findings of possible signs of life in ALH84001 says the picture put together by Hamilton is "fascinating”. And like his work, there was “no single line of evidence that says, ‘ah, this is it’," he notes.

The meteorite is believed to have first formed deep beneath the Martian surface, and was later transported to the shallow depth from which it was propelled into space.

The Eos Chasma location fits that. The 4-kilometre-high cliffs bordering the canyon have exposed rocks from various ages in the Martian past, and impacts or erosion could have brought the rock to the canyon floor - along with rocks from a major portion of Mars' history.

That makes it a prime site for a landing mission someday, Hamilton said. It would be an opportunity to sample rocks from a wide variety of ages, all in one place. And, if it really is the launchpad from which ALH84001 began its interplanetary travel, it may also be the place where the mystery of whether the rock's unusual contents really are signs of ancient life is finally unravelled.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alh84001; birthplace; eoschasma; famous; mars; meteorite; pinpointed

Eos Chasma
1 posted on 09/16/2005 9:44:20 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Apparently, added the astronomer, the meteorite originated only a mile from the birthplace of Senator John Kerry...


2 posted on 09/16/2005 9:47:27 AM PDT by RockinRight (What part of ILLEGAL immigration do they not understand?)
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To: LibWhacker

Came from a region that might have been wet at the time, looks like. That makes the possibility of fossil life forms reasonable.


3 posted on 09/16/2005 9:48:36 AM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: LibWhacker

It's Bush's fault that Mars experienced global warming several million years ago. He SHOULD have signed that Kyoto Treaty!!!!


4 posted on 09/16/2005 9:49:19 AM PDT by highlymotivated (If American ever falls, a STINKING LIBERAL will be behind it.)
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To: LibWhacker
This is Breaking News!
5 posted on 09/16/2005 9:49:22 AM PDT by hadaclueonce (shoot low, they are riding Shetlands.....)
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To: LibWhacker

"Yes, Virginia, there is a home for the moonbats."


6 posted on 09/16/2005 9:52:27 AM PDT by lilylangtree
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To: LibWhacker

Maybe they can use that thing to find Osama bin Laden on this planet?


7 posted on 09/16/2005 9:56:17 AM PDT by Past Your Eyes (I'm just sitting here on the Group W bench.)
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To: LibWhacker

So they started with the assumption the meteorite came from Mars, and then said it came from THIS spot simply because "we haven't seen any other suitable places." ???

Is that the scientific method?


8 posted on 09/16/2005 9:57:48 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: LibWhacker

9 posted on 09/16/2005 10:00:15 AM PDT by Xenophobic Alien ("It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level.")
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To: Redbob

It was more than an assumption. The composition matches Mars in general rather than earth.


10 posted on 09/16/2005 10:00:19 AM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: LibWhacker

That's a big CHASMA!............


11 posted on 09/16/2005 10:04:44 AM PDT by Red Badger (BLAME = Democrat .......BALM = Republican.........BLAM = 1 DEAD LOOTER............)
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To: lilylangtree

But but, aparently nothing exploded,(a black hole in nothing none the less) creating a gas cloud for billions of years first, so no rocks were even formed at the 'dawn of the universe', so the timeline doesn't fit, plus it contradicts the BBT event explanation.


12 posted on 09/16/2005 10:16:40 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: LibWhacker

Amazing how that "rock survived intact, never burned up in earth atmosphere, or broke up into billions of bits on impact.
Than in itself is very strange. Or a better explanation is this is all moonbat garbage.


13 posted on 09/16/2005 10:19:40 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: RightWhale

Now how can that be? Mars and earth were all formed from the same material according to the BBT.


14 posted on 09/16/2005 10:25:30 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: LibWhacker
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (Houston) asks why They have not located the flag the astronauts left on Mars?
15 posted on 09/16/2005 10:26:41 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." AYN RAND)
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To: LibWhacker

This is old news. It was originally reported when the rock was found about a year ago.


16 posted on 09/16/2005 10:35:32 AM PDT by Oh Brother
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To: Nathan Zachary

Meteorites survive intact all the time.


17 posted on 09/16/2005 10:42:23 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
Apparently this deep Mars rock was formed by nothing exploding and forming base gases which formed these early rocks complete with fossils too- At the dawn of the birth of the universe.

So, there was life BEFORE there were rocks formed by these gases billions of years ago. How else did these fossils get there?
Lets throug this deck of cards called the BBT up in the air again and see if it lands more organized this time....
18 posted on 09/16/2005 10:48:12 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

With all due respect, you need to be a rocket scientist to participate fully in this discussion. Our planetary probes have shown that every planet has a unique "signature" of various isotopes in specific percentages. That's the STRONG EVIDENCE that the ALH meteorite came from Mars. This new hypothesis, that the meteroite came from a specific location on Mars, is simply that...a hypothesis that needs more evidence. BTW, the BBT does not state that all planets are made of exactly the same stuff. It is obvious that there were mechanisms at work that differentiated the composition of each celestial body. Furthermore, current generally accepted theory is that the universe is many billions of years older than the Solar System. With the Scientific Method, the best system ever devised to determine Truth, hypotheses and theories are accepted or rejected based on objective proof and data. Belief has nothing to do with it.


19 posted on 09/16/2005 10:48:24 AM PDT by darth
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To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (Houston) asks why They have not located the flag the astronauts left on Mars?

I think she should have a one way ticket to go find that flag.

20 posted on 09/16/2005 10:53:08 AM PDT by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: LibWhacker

Better yet, lets look at this a more logical way. Mars has the same type of rock formations as the earth. Catastrophic events on earth have buried and mixed all these diferent types of formations common to all planets, simularities which they have share, because they were all formed the same way.


21 posted on 09/16/2005 10:59:50 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: RockinRight

...the scientists then asked for additional funding so that they could further contemplate the origin of the lint in their belly buttons.


22 posted on 09/16/2005 11:10:08 AM PDT by The Duke
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To: Nathan Zachary
The ill-informed, sarcastic drivel spouted by mini-minds that can't wrap around anything bigger than six days and six thousand years never ceases to amaze...

I really wonder why they fear revelation of facts so strongly...

Maybe I should really light a fire and mention the epitome of sinful words: "evolution"...</SARCASM>

Some folks around here need a much bigger God...

23 posted on 09/16/2005 11:14:18 AM PDT by TXnMA (Iraq & Afghanistan: Bush's "Bug-Zappers"...)
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To: darth
LMAO! A rocket scientist! Indeed. Probes have only sampled a wee tiny insignificant sample of dirt, far from enough to draw any conclusions of that nature. Since the earth, and all other planets for that matter are constantly bombarded with the same crap floating around in space, they all contain the same stuff, on the earth, it's heated and churned around and spit up by volcanic activity in varying combinations, because this activity isn't the exact same on every planet, you get what apears to be different combinations of the same material.

Rocket science huh?

Lets see, using the hair- brained BBT, the entire universe was formed by nothing exploding, creating these base gases, hydrogen, helium and heavy helium, etc which turned into quasars which then exploded, creating all these minerals (rocks, with fossils in them now they say) with where spewed all over the universe and slowly gathered together and formed planets. The deep rock was pushed up by a volcano or metor strike on Mars send speeding to earth and created life, 4.5 billion years ago. And they just upgraded the age of the universe to 14.5 billion years, so that means Life on Mars occured, and died fossilized, was deeply buried at the birth of the universe. Let's not even fathom how everything somehow organized itself into balanced order during all this kaos.

I hate to tell you, But that's not rocket science, that's quackery.

24 posted on 09/16/2005 11:15:41 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: TXnMA

Mini minds huh? I design and build things that would boggle the minds of these telescope peeping "rocket scientists". It seems that the can take an impossibility which violates the basic laws of physics, add even more stupidity to it and mini minds will believe it without even taking the time to investigate these "theories".


25 posted on 09/16/2005 11:21:47 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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Probably because they are incapable of doing so.


26 posted on 09/16/2005 11:26:18 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: darth
...you need to be a rocket scientist to participate fully in this discussion...

Aw, damn! I'm an elitist snob, can't I play too?

27 posted on 09/16/2005 11:28:37 AM PDT by Ignatz (Proper spelling unites people, improper spelling unties people.)
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To: Ignatz

Sure you can. Any theory you can come up with is valid until proved wrong. But, there are a hundreds of "rocket scientists"
Which dispute this BBT quackery, you can always use their models, none of which have been disproved either.


28 posted on 09/16/2005 11:34:54 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Ignatz

In fact, I have a unique theory of my own. Our entire universe exists in a bugs turd, this bug that created that turd, (our big bang) it's universe exists within another turd, and so on and so on for infinity. Our while concept of time is but a micro second in this bugs concept of time, and so on and so on. Because time didn't exist before the creation of our universe, it's forbidden for us to think beyond that moment. I don't know why exactly, but I've been told that.


29 posted on 09/16/2005 11:49:24 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

This identifying the possible origin of the chunk of rock is mere taxonomy with an eye toward evolutionary theory. Taxonomy as a precursor of science is about on the scientific level of naming the animals. But, Newtonian mechanics does allow for interchange of small amounts of material between planets, which doesn't go far toward verifying bosonic string theory.


30 posted on 09/16/2005 11:49:52 AM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: Nathan Zachary
Lets see, using the hair- brained BBT, the entire universe was formed by nothing exploding, creating these base gases, hydrogen, helium and heavy helium, etc which turned into quasars which then exploded, creating all these minerals (rocks, with fossils in them now they say) with where spewed all over the universe and slowly gathered together and formed planets. The deep rock was pushed up by a volcano or metor strike on Mars send speeding to earth and created life, 4.5 billion years ago. And they just upgraded the age of the universe to 14.5 billion years, so that means Life on Mars occured, and died fossilized, was deeply buried at the birth of the universe. Let's not even fathom how everything somehow organized itself into balanced order during all this kaos.

Now, that's quackery! Just lots of scientific-sounding terms thrown together -- with no comprehension of modern cosmological thinking.

Get back to us on cosmology -- when you've passed high school science...and have learned the difference between a quark and a quasar...

In the meantime, welcome to the fourteenth century!

31 posted on 09/16/2005 12:10:17 PM PDT by TXnMA (Iraq & Afghanistan: Bush's "Bug-Zappers"...)
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To: RightWhale

The bosonic string theories are all unstable. It's just as well that bosonic string theory is unstable, because it's not a realistic theory to begin with. The real world has stable matter which satisfy the Pauli Exclusion Principle where two identical particles cannot be in the same quantum state at the same time.


32 posted on 09/16/2005 12:12:58 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: LibWhacker
>"Meteorites survive intact all the time."

And sometimes the meteorites are worshipped as gawd by stone age death cults with nuclear weapons!

Kill A Commie For Mommie
Seven Dead Monkeys Page O Tunes

33 posted on 09/16/2005 12:15:36 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Always use fresh macaroni.... If the box rattles,.... throw it away."--- Kent Brockman)
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To: TXnMA

That's exactly what I say too! Quackery! That is how the BBT is described.


34 posted on 09/16/2005 12:16:18 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

That's why we invented fermions.


35 posted on 09/16/2005 12:16:37 PM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: rawcatslyentist

Maybe "Allah" had DNA bits bits on it and thats how Arabs came to be.....


36 posted on 09/16/2005 12:19:06 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: RightWhale
And on you go to superspace, tachyons, heterotic superstring theories, and all sorts of brain masturbation all to end up with unworkable theory. Good way to get lots of calculus practice though.
37 posted on 09/16/2005 12:29:06 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

I'm on it. Making a list of topics that need refreshing so I can read this string theory text. It is probably just an exercise; nobody is even pretending anymore that we are getting any closer to the true nature of reality.


38 posted on 09/16/2005 12:35:45 PM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: Nathan Zachary
'dawn of the universe'

It says dawn of the solar system, two different things.

39 posted on 09/16/2005 1:07:56 PM PDT by Joe Miner
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To: Nathan Zachary

Wow! Kinda makes my theory of a Flying Psgetti Monster as creator of the universe and the designer of evolution pale in comparision - though my version IS much more, um, palatable, if you will.


40 posted on 09/16/2005 1:42:32 PM PDT by Ignatz (Proper spelling unites people, improper spelling unties people.)
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To: Ignatz

I don't mean to insult my fellow Freepers, however, look at some of the "I'm ignorant and proud of it" attitudes on this thread. A basic level of education is needed in a subject before we can carry on a discussion of it. The derision towards serious scientists trying to advance the state of the art makes some of the posters look like rubes. In the case of the ALH meteorite in question, the nanobacteria fossils, if confirmed, mean WE HAVE DISCOVERED EVIDENCE OF LIFE ON ANOTHER PLANET, MARS! That's earth shaking news and incredibly important. I'm sorry if such news puts someone's theological panties in a wad, but truth is more important than opinion.


41 posted on 09/16/2005 2:47:04 PM PDT by darth
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To: darth
It doesn't put my theological panties in a wad.
Nothing would please me more than to have proof of life elsewhere in our universe. And while I may not be a rocket scientist, I am an amatuer astronomer and eagerly follow "space news".
42 posted on 09/16/2005 3:41:23 PM PDT by Ignatz (Proper spelling unites people, improper spelling unties people.)
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To: Ignatz

I should have made it clear that I was speaking about another poster and not you with my caustic comments. I agree with you that the discovery of life on another world would be incredibly important. BTW, I am an aerospace engineer, economist, entrepreneur and a few other things.


43 posted on 09/17/2005 6:21:30 AM PDT by darth
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