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More women are asking for prenups
Sun Sentinel ^ | September 18, 2005 | Georgia East

Posted on 09/18/2005 3:05:48 AM PDT by Caipirabob

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To: Ajnin
I think this is a bad analogy. I don't think you can readily compare the moral issue of self defense with getting a prenup agreement. By getting a preunp a person is admitting to themselves that divorce is a possibility. If a person is unsure if the marriage is going to last, why get married?

Turn that around, if a person is convinced the marriage will last, why not get a pre-nup.

Two single people have only their own possessions to be concerned with. If both have only the normal accumulations of stuff, there is often no need to protect only your own interests. But sometimes, a person comes encumbered by the interests of other people that take special consideration in both prenups and ~wills~. Children usually, but sometimes others.

For example, I own shares in property in common with my brother and my father. It might have been important to consider that ~their~ interests need to be protected from consequences they have no control over... it's not only about me.

101 posted on 09/18/2005 8:28:43 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
This is still more proof American males should seek women from Russia and Eastern Europe.

ROTFLMAO

How did we get to post #42 before the mail order bride group (aka little weenie guys) show up?

102 posted on 09/18/2005 8:31:23 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: TheSpottedOwl
You're lucky she didn't turn up pregnant. Btw, did your bowels turn to water after she said that?

Almost - I do remember this heavy sinking feeling in my gut.
103 posted on 09/18/2005 8:34:02 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Farmer Dean
In Virginia Beach, Virginia. I couldn’t run – I’m an honorable man. Besides, I was deeply in lust love.
104 posted on 09/18/2005 8:35:43 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Drew68
"He tells me he won't drink as much after we get married." "I know she cheated on me while we were dating but she wouldn't do that if she had a ring on her finger.”

Just like the women who think they can change the man after marriage, or the man who cheats on his wife with a married woman, both get divorced and marry – and then are surprised to find one is cheating again.
105 posted on 09/18/2005 8:38:54 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Caipirabob
I think a simple change in the law would take all of the finger-pointing out of this. Part of obtaining a marriage license should be an accurate accounting of each party's assets and liabilities, to be filed with the county along with the other documents. In the event of a divorce, the judge will ensure that each party leaves the marriage with at least an equivalent level of assets that they brought to it. Any assets earned during the marriage will then be divided either evenly, or in a way that is balanced by which partner has custody of any children resulting from the marriage.

Essentially the point of a pre-nup - protection of assets brought into a marriage - would simply be part of the law and would apply equally to everyone.

106 posted on 09/18/2005 8:42:06 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Not a bad idea :~D

That's the way it pans out anyway, usually, minus the checks written to lawyers to fight about it.


107 posted on 09/18/2005 8:44:24 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Ajnin
By getting a preunp a person is admitting to themselves that divorce is a possibility. If a person is unsure if the marriage is going to last, why get married?

Because there is never any certainty in human life except death.

That is why we put young kids in the currently recommended car seats in the back seat of a car. If you are unsure if the car will be in a serious accident on any given trip, why would you ever put a child in it and risk the child's life over a trip to the grocery store?

The logic of "If you are unsure of the safety of X, then why do you even do it?" is a false choice that will leave you either paralyzed into inaction by fear or recklessly endangered.

108 posted on 09/18/2005 8:49:27 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: R. Scott

There are also behaviors that may not come to full bloom until the marriage is underway....

Mild jealousy becomes insane jealousy as the social circle enlarges,
A few drinks when stressed becomes heavy drinking during hard times.
Timid insecurity becomes rabid control freakishness.
etc

Granted, most of the flags are there, but some are folded and in the drawer at the time of marriage.


109 posted on 09/18/2005 8:55:19 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: Polybius
A 23 year old single mother is not somebody that a young man should consider as a first, second, third or fourth choice as marriage material. There is a long list of reasons why she would want a marriage and "I love this man" is probably at the bottom half of the list.

You sure throw people away easily as worthless.

110 posted on 09/18/2005 8:56:11 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Ajnin; Rca2000
"It's not that I plan to get divorced," says Kaplan, 23,

Me three, for some reason getting divorced is what would happen to this lady. Maybe I'm trying to read too much into the mind of this "lady" but it seems she is looking for a "Sugar Daddy." One question I would have to ask her is that did she have her daughter to a marriage to where she got divorced or did she have her out of wedlock? I'm not picking on the daughter, she is an innocent in all of this, but it seems like this lady seems to be unrepentant to where she wants to do the right thing. All I can say to her is that she needs something much bigger in life than a pre-nup and the place to where she should start looking is The Bible.
111 posted on 09/18/2005 9:01:10 AM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - Any Questions?)
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To: Vision

Project much?


112 posted on 09/18/2005 9:08:58 AM PDT by Sally'sConcerns (Native Texan and Houston Proud!)
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To: Vision; Rca2000
That's right, nothing better than a woman who is barefoot and ignorant. Please! If a women is all ginned up on feminism, puts her "career first", and winds up in her forties crying without a child or husband, or worse- like a character from Sex in the City, she has only herself to blame..."Hey, I bought into all this lame propaganda, lived the wrong life for 30 years while shoving it in everyones face, and now nobody likes me". And guys who have had to take her foolish, nitwit, institutionally protected attitude for years will find a hard time finding sympathy

Exactly. They made their choices in life and have to live with it as we all do. I commented on this yesterday to where it is like where I have $1500 to blow on either a top of the line shortwave radio or a VHF/UHF receiver. If I buy one, I must foresake the other, I cannot have both. Now a possible way to have both is buy one now and then make a change to where I can lay down the foundation for the other. I can also split the $1500 and buy a lower ended VHF/UHF receiver and shortwave radio that can do 90% of what the high end ones can do, pretty much the best of both worlds although I will not get 100%

I think the 1970's era "superwoman" is a myth, you canot do it all, have a power career, kids, etc. Decisions must be made, maybe have a career for some time and when Mr. Right comes along, let up off the gas and raise the kids at home for a while. When they whine about not having kids and a family at a certain age, I have no sympathy but I will offer them this advice: "you have some soul searching and decision making to do, if that is what you want, then you can go after it, but you will have to make a cut somewhere to allocated the time, resources and money to change to your new path." If she is too old to have kids, yet Mr. Right comes along and she wants to raise them at home, well, there is adoption too, there are plenty of kids out there that need special people to adopt and love them. I am convinced that God does put childless couples on Earth for that purpose, but that it just me.

Don't let the rancor get you down, being an amateur astronomy buff that I am, I ran a simulation of tonite's sky and it is the night of the Full Moon. B-D I'm gonna get it for that one. >B-D
113 posted on 09/18/2005 9:22:27 AM PDT by Nowhere Man (Lutheran, Conservative, Neo-Victorian/Edwardian, Michael Savage in '08! - Any Questions?)
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To: Vision

"You're gonna tell me if someone is known as wealthy, they won't get alot of disingenuous attention."

No, I didn't say that so please stop putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is that if it is perfectly acceptable for a wealthy man to require a prenup, then it's perfect acceptable for a woman. I'm not even saying I agree with prenups, so don't go reading into anything.

"If a woman is all ginned up on feminism, puts her career first and winds up in her forties crying without a child or husband,"

Hey, it happens to men as well. I see alot of men from this country getting themselves a bride through the freaking mail. And when these brides come home with him and take him for everything he's worth, then he was never that bright to begin with.

"Hey, I bought into all this lame propaganda."

Sorry to say this, but that's not my problem. If you are unhappy about the way your life has turned out, then may I suggest you do something about it instead of feeling sorry for yourself. Not all women are meant to be married and mothers. But according to some men on FR, these women are cold hearted bitches. Double standards flow on this forum and as hard as this may be to believe....you are part of the double standard club.

My kneejerk cattiness? Being that I love FR and don't want to get kicked off, I'm going to remain a lady instead of telling you where you can stick your comment.


114 posted on 09/18/2005 9:52:00 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Polybius

"Because there is never any certainty in life except death."

And taxes!


115 posted on 09/18/2005 9:54:44 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Caipirabob
More women are asking for prenups

And that's just from Larry King.

116 posted on 09/18/2005 9:55:52 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: HairOfTheDog
A 23 year old single mother is not somebody that a young man should consider as a first, second, third or fourth choice as marriage material. There is a long list of reasons why she would want a marriage and "I love this man" is probably at the bottom half of the list.

You sure throw people away easily as worthless.

I didn't "throw her away" and "easily" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

"Easy" would be to not even bother to think about the dynamics that a young child brings into a 23 year old woman's life.

I advised any young man considering such a marriage to seriously think it over and ask himself why four other women without emotional baggage might not be a better choice for him.

What emotional baggage?

When two people get married, the Number One reason should be the other person.

With a 23 year old single mother, the Number One reason could be easily be and very often is:

***"Now I have financial security for my child."

***"Now I can quit my job to stay home with my child."

***"I can't do this by myself any longer. I need help."

***"My child needs a father."

The man is no longer a person but a child-raising tool.

The same thing goes for single and childless women with "Biological Clock Syndrome".

We had one such woman move here from out of state and start work at our department. From the very beginning, she announced that her stay at the job would be temporary as she planned to get married by the time she was 30 and have a kid shortly after that. She had just turned 29.

"So, what's your fiancee's name?", we asked.

She replied that she hadn't met him yet!

Sure enough, within a few months, she had "met" somebody 100 miles away over an Internet dating service. A month later, the guy was driving 200 miles round trip every weekend to be with her. A few months after that, she shows up at work with an engagement ring on her finger. Shortly after that, she quit her job at our place, got married and moved to where he lived. About four months into the marriage, she got pregnant and, just as she predicted, she had her kid by age 30. A second one soon followed.

She kept in touch with us for a few years after that.

"Jane called today."

"How's she doing?"

"Great! She quit her job at her new place and is staying at home with her two kids. Her kids are (......on and on and on about the kids.....) "

"So, what about her husband Whats-his-name? Did we ever get to meet the guy?"

"I dunno. She never talks about him."

That poor guy probably never realized before he got married that he was nothing more than a sperm donor and a meal ticket.

117 posted on 09/18/2005 9:56:41 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius

I have one question....

Do only women have baggage?


118 posted on 09/18/2005 10:04:33 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: najida

"Do only women have baggage?"

Hell no. A neighbor of mine lost his wife almost five years ago to an illness. She left behind three very young children....the youngest was only two. He remarried just last year to a professional woman with no kids, no baggage, and her own house. They had their first child a week ago. She's a very kind person and he's a lucky man to have found someone that will love his children as much as he does.

But hey, if it's a woman with "baggage" who marries a man with no "baggage", she's only after his money. Double standards prevail!


119 posted on 09/18/2005 10:09:26 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Polybius
When two people get married, the Number One reason should be the other person. With a 23 year old single mother, the Number One reason could be easily be and very often is: ***"Now I have financial security for my child." ***"Now I can quit my job to stay home with my child." ***"I can't do this by myself any longer. I need help." ***"My child needs a father." The man is no longer a person but a child-raising tool.

Those factors don't enter into any relationship as soon as children are born?

Your simple and unencumbered young couple will soon also find that they are together because they both love and need each other.

Congratulations to the woman from your office. You never know, could be her husband is happy too.

120 posted on 09/18/2005 10:13:24 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: najida

According to the "men" here it's the women's fault for their troubles. Of course that's been the excuse since Eve ate the forbidden fruit. ( I discount the few sane and common sense fellas who chime in from the "men", so as not to paint with a broad brush the behaviors of a few.)


121 posted on 09/18/2005 10:13:43 AM PDT by CajunConservative ("Dem's can bus people to the polls but can't bus them out of danger to save their lives.")
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To: Arpege92

I'm serious when I say I'm watching this like it's playing out 1000 years ago...

A no baggage woman simply translates into why men wanted virgins fresh outta daddy's house. A blank slate where he can be the only writer to make is mark, physically, mentally and emotionally (though he can look like a warmap).

It is a bizarre double standard.


122 posted on 09/18/2005 10:16:14 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: CajunConservative

Can't you see how the burqa came into being?

"I can't pray, I'm distracted, it's all HER fault!" So she got covered up, and still caught all the blame for what he thought, felt, wanted to do....

She still does to this day.


123 posted on 09/18/2005 10:19:23 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: najida; Polybius

And as soon as he gets her pregnant I guess he resents her for the baggage that now makes her feel a ~need~ to stay with him. After all, his formerly unencumbered bride now just wants a father for her children, and he's ~still~ the hapless victim.

I guess once you have kids, whether you're married or not, you can no longer be a good companion and spouse for another person.... it's all just about entrapment from there on out.

Preposterous.


124 posted on 09/18/2005 10:24:11 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: najida

Yes I can. I survived my parents horrible divorce. My father was one of those who blamed my mother for all of his problems. He failed to look at WHY she left, like it was to keep us from being his punching bag. There's usually three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth.


125 posted on 09/18/2005 10:28:20 AM PDT by CajunConservative ("Dem's can bus people to the polls but can't bus them out of danger to save their lives.")
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To: najida

Indeed it is a bizaare double standard!

With everything bad that has come with the feminists movement, their are good things as well. I don't believe Condoleezza Rice would be where she is today had it not been for the feminists and the civil rights movement. Michelle Malkin is another example.


126 posted on 09/18/2005 10:43:00 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: HairOfTheDog

It's more than kids that get labled as baggage for a woman...
Baggage isn't all negative.
If she's had any other relationships,
If she's had any other life experiences that doesn't include him.
If she doesn't present herself as a blank slate without any expections or desires.

Baggage for a woman translates into "I can look at you and compare you to others, maybe even see you as you really are."

And that, IMHO, is why men are terrified of it. It's that primal, territorial, competitive thing....meaning she, that female that makes him feel out of control, can reject him and find him wanting based on what she knows of other men.

But I could be wrong ;)


127 posted on 09/18/2005 10:43:39 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: spetznaz; Caipirabob
My only question is how to breach the subject of a prenup to your SigOther without having a plate of fettucine alfredo smeared on your face? Or, even worse (far worse), heart-wrenching sobs accompanied by 'why don't you trust me!'

Whenever I've lent money to a girlfriend, she doesn't get a dime unless she signs an IOU.

And if she doesn't like it, she can walk and do her bawling somewhere else.

And I've always gotten my money back.

And in the case pf marriage, I'd definitely have the lawyers lined up before I'd ever get married.

Further, I would never let anyone know exactly how well off I am. It should be enough for them to know I do OK.

128 posted on 09/18/2005 10:43:58 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: najida
It is a bizarre double standard.

It is a double standard, and a wise one.

129 posted on 09/18/2005 10:46:23 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: Age of Reason

Explain why it's a wise double standard.


130 posted on 09/18/2005 10:47:35 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: R. Scott

Ah yes, that sinking feeling. You're lucky the marriage only lasted 6 months. Did you have it annulled?


131 posted on 09/18/2005 10:47:47 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("President Bush, start building that wall"!)
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To: najida

You might be right, but I hate to go too far down that road.

I just wish ~people~ would get off the high horse and realize that neither men nor women have bought into some great plan to beat the other one, in fact, most of us would like to be happily paired up.

But it's not easy for either sex, as many flaws as there are to love :~D


132 posted on 09/18/2005 10:55:17 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: najida

We live and learn. That might be why I waited 14 years after the divorce before I remarried.


133 posted on 09/18/2005 10:56:21 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: TheSpottedOwl

No, we went the divorce route. Debbie had the chance to take anything she wanted to pay for. What she didn’t want I kept.
She didn’t want to pay for anything.


134 posted on 09/18/2005 10:57:54 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: najida
I have one question.... Do only women have baggage?

Nope.

Men have baggage too. Everybody has baggage.

Some people have baggage small enough to fit "under the seat in front of you or in the overhead compartment" and some people have enough baggage to fill a Mayflower moving van plus a medium sized U-Haul truck.

Some baggage, when combined, may be complimentary and help strenthen a marriage. Some baggage, when combined, may be downright toxic.

That is why it's important to do a Baggage Check before marriage and not pretend that the baggage does not exist.

Marry in haste, repent in leisure.

135 posted on 09/18/2005 11:00:23 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Age of Reason
I would never let anyone know exactly how well off I am.

Your executor will need to know, whether you will have a loved one to leave it to is the unknown. ;~D

136 posted on 09/18/2005 11:01:29 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: HairOfTheDog

Amen to that. Both men and women are flawed.


137 posted on 09/18/2005 11:02:09 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Arpege92
Amen to that. Both men and women are flawed.

And some are wonderful :~D

138 posted on 09/18/2005 11:02:56 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: najida
When a woman becomes pregnant, the baby will always have her genes.

But a man can never be sure when his woman becomes pregnant, that the baby is his.

And so a wise man knows that a woman who refuses to have sex with anyone until marriage, is a woman more likely to be faithful after marriage--for she strictly follows the rules.

Were it otherwise, a woman who finds excuses to have sex prior to marriage, will find it easier to find excuses to have sex outside of her marriage.

Such a woman shows she is weak and more likely to make excuses to herself to break rules when temptation comes along.

I would never marry a woman who had sex with me before I married her.

But I would have sex with her.

139 posted on 09/18/2005 11:04:16 AM PDT by Age of Reason
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To: HairOfTheDog

Oh yes...my hubby is a regular "Mr. Wonderful" and I'm being sincere when I say that.


140 posted on 09/18/2005 11:05:37 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Age of Reason

Age of Reason, I guess you plan on being single for the rest of your life.


141 posted on 09/18/2005 11:06:56 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Age of Reason

So you're saying that a man can be a pretty immoral creature, and it's OK.

But a woman has to follow a very narrow path to be worthy of above mentioned man?


142 posted on 09/18/2005 11:07:45 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: Age of Reason
I would never marry a woman who had sex with me before I married her. But I would have sex with her.

Repulsive.

143 posted on 09/18/2005 11:08:14 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Join the Hobbit Hole Troop Support - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: Arpege92

Good luck in finding a virgin who is too stupid to know whether or not you have money, and willing to have the baby's DNA checked after its birth making sure you are indeed the father.


144 posted on 09/18/2005 11:11:19 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Age of Reason
Were it otherwise, a woman who finds excuses to have sex prior to marriage, will find it easier to find excuses to have sex outside of her marriage.

Such a woman shows she is weak and more likely to make excuses to herself to break rules when temptation comes along.

I would never marry a woman who had sex with me before I married her.

But I would have sex with her.

Knuckles drag much? Hypocrite.

145 posted on 09/18/2005 11:13:08 AM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: najida

Upon thinking even deeper on the subject,
I realize that a woman must be tremendously inferior to said man for his immorality to exceed her virtue.


146 posted on 09/18/2005 11:15:36 AM PDT by najida (So, I said to myself -Self, I really think shrimp heads in the flower pots as compost is a bit much!)
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet

LOL


147 posted on 09/18/2005 11:16:23 AM PDT by Arpege92 ("I am happy, be it yourselves." - Pope John Paul II)
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To: R. Scott

So, do you know how many marriages she's had since you? I just can't get over having 3 marriages before you're even 18 : (

At least she couldn't soak you.


148 posted on 09/18/2005 11:21:43 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("President Bush, start building that wall"!)
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To: Arpege92

Some of the things people say in this forum just leave me shaking my head.

Disgusting.


149 posted on 09/18/2005 11:30:57 AM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: Polybius
Some people have baggage small enough to fit "under the seat in front of you or in the overhead compartment" and some people have enough baggage to fill a Mayflower moving van plus a medium sized U-Haul truck.

Between my bf and I, we have enough baggage to fill the Battlestar Gallactica ;-)

It's exactly the same kind of baggage, so it's okay.

150 posted on 09/18/2005 11:32:07 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("President Bush, start building that wall"!)
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