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Now, Every Keystroke Can Betray You
LA Times ^ | 9/18/05 | Joseph Menn

Posted on 09/18/2005 5:35:49 PM PDT by Crackingham

Bank customers know to shield their ATM passwords from prying eyes. But with the rise of online banking, computer users may not realize electronic snoops might be peeking over their shoulder every time they type. In a twist on online fraud, hackers and identity thieves are infecting computers with increasingly sophisticated programs that record bank passwords and other key financial data and send them to crooks over the Internet.

That's what happened to Tim Brown, who had account information swiped out of the PC at his Simi Valley store.

"It's scary they could see my keystrokes," said Brown, owner of Kingdom Sewing & Vacuum. "It freaks me out."

Brown learned of the scam only after security researchers stumbled onto a computer harvesting information from hundreds of PCs and felt compelled to alert some of the people who had the most data exposed. Realizing he was lucky to get the call last month, Brown changed his passwords and is hoping for the best.

"This even staggered us," said Alex Eckelberry, president of Sunbelt Software Inc., which found that the so-called keylogger program installed itself in a way most antivirus software could not block. "Online institutions now have to assume that the account holder may have been compromised."

SNIP

"We're seeing explosive growth in 'crimeware,' " said Peter Cassidy, the working group's secretary general. "It's really galloping."

Consumers are increasingly jittery: 42% say security concerns have caused them to change their electronic shopping habits, according to research firm Gartner Inc.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: exploit; getamac; internetexploiter; lookoutexpress; lowqualitycrap; malware; microsoft; securityflaw; spyware; windows
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1 posted on 09/18/2005 5:35:50 PM PDT by Crackingham
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To: Crackingham

There is only one thing I can say - Whenever you allow, keyloggers, viruses, trogans and the like on your computer, it is GWB's fault. ;>)


2 posted on 09/18/2005 5:48:49 PM PDT by TheHound (You would be paranoid too - if everyone was out to get you.)
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To: Crackingham; Famishus

Ping


3 posted on 09/18/2005 5:50:09 PM PDT by mother22wife21 ("We ain't stuck on stupid," General Honore said. "We don't place troops in the eye of a hurricane.)
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To: Crackingham
Microsoft and companies like them work their butts off on mandatory unpaid overtime to develop the rich and flexible APIs that make this possible. Then they go into mandatory unpaid double overtime to patch all the errors they made. Then it's 7 days a week, 16+ hours a day to fix the errors in the patches. Sometimes I think the whole world would be a lot better off if they would just relax a little, write *less* software, and make sure what they do write actually works.
4 posted on 09/18/2005 5:51:17 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: Crackingham

bttt


5 posted on 09/18/2005 5:51:51 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Crackingham
A surefire fix is to boot and run from a Linux LiveCD like knoppix. A second way is to run Linux or do like I do, I run OpenSolaris.
6 posted on 09/18/2005 5:52:28 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: beef
Sometimes I think the whole world would be a lot better off if they would just relax a little, write *less* software, and make sure what they do write actually works.

Like in the old days? Why, you right-wing, conservative, reactionary luddite! ;-)

I agree 100%.

7 posted on 09/18/2005 5:53:06 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Crackingham
... the so-called keylogger program installed itself in a way most antivirus software could not block

Does this mean if you don't type your password it can't see it?
How about if you copy and paste?

8 posted on 09/18/2005 5:54:41 PM PDT by Jorge (Q)
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To: Crackingham
Two rules to live up: keep your anti-virus software up to date and install Preempt and Spywareblaster to keep the crud from being installed in the first place. And as an additional safeguard, install Eric L. Howe's free Agnis blocklist to make sure no trojan-infested or crimeware site can run on your computer to install unwanted drive by software on it. With vigilance you can safely enjoy, bank and shop on the Internet without becoming a victim.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
9 posted on 09/18/2005 5:55:11 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Tarpon

A third way is to run OS X. That way you can actually use the OS in a convenient manner.


10 posted on 09/18/2005 5:55:16 PM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: Terpfen
True, but a LiveCD affords you of knowing what exactly is loaded and keeps anything from being added. You can even make them for yourself.

Mac OS-X is a reasonable alternative, as good as any of the disk based *NIXes.
11 posted on 09/18/2005 6:02:25 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: Tarpon

True, but running a LiveCD as a primary OS is just asking for trouble, IMO. Better to use it as an option for recovering a computer that's been completely screwed over by junkware, IMO.


12 posted on 09/18/2005 6:04:15 PM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: Terpfen

A third way is to run OS X. That way you can actually use the OS in a convenient manner.


Hate to burst your bubble, but the reason Hackers target Windows and Explorer is because they are the dominant OS & browser. More bang for the buck for their effort don't ya know. If something else were on top, that would get targeted (and compromised) too. The more code, the more flaws to exploit.


13 posted on 09/18/2005 6:04:21 PM PDT by rbg81
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To: rbg81
the reason Hackers target Windows and Explorer is because they are the dominant OS & browser.

Same old tired argument gets trotted out every time, no matter how many times it's debunked.

Did you ever wonder why a freakin' CELL PHONE, with 100,000 installed units, gets more viruses than a computer with 20+ million?

14 posted on 09/18/2005 6:10:35 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Terpfen
running a LiveCD as a primary OS is just asking for trouble,

Why do you say that? I use a Knoppix liveCD all the time. I put my information, bookmarks and other stuff on a USB key, boot and run. When I am done banking I shutdown and remove the usb key.

15 posted on 09/18/2005 6:14:40 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: Tarpon

As a primary OS... for one, it's impossible to apply updates, and you can't quite burn an updated CD when you're using the Live CD to begin with. You're also stuck with the inability to install anything, from programs to program updates.

The LiveCD is a nice concept, but as a primary OS... nah.


16 posted on 09/18/2005 6:22:12 PM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: Terpfen
Well you are right. But as I said you use it for only one purpose, running in a protected mode where you want to do just a couple of things with high security, like online banking, stock trading, buying on line. You don't need the latest updates, just functional. My trusty LiveCD is about a year old.

For normal use I run OpenSolaris from disk where the account is locked down. Only problem is multimedia which sucks on Solaris unless it's realplayer.
17 posted on 09/18/2005 6:26:58 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: Tarpon

Running it for one or two tasks, I can understand: I wasn't rejecting it out of hand for such a thing. I'm just saying that as a primary OS, meaning a replacement for an OS installed on a hard drive, it wouldn't work.


18 posted on 09/18/2005 6:28:20 PM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: Crackingham

I just got the bad taste of "progressives" out of my mouth. Now we call them keystrokes?


19 posted on 09/18/2005 6:38:10 PM PDT by 359Henrie
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To: Terpfen
Well it does work, you're right, it's just not convenient. With knoppix you can use other storage as read-write, usb keys or usb hard drives for that matter. The key is main memory, I have 1.5 Gbytes in my on line box, so there is plenty to run completely out of memory. If you only have 512 mB it will be slower but still usable. For what I do, specifically sensitive things, the inconvenience makes up for the assurance in what I am doing.

Do you get many security updates with Mac OS-X? I quit using RH ES Linux because the security updates come out frequently. Solaris has very few updates and a simple patch system by comparison.
20 posted on 09/18/2005 6:40:08 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: Tarpon

OS X updates pretty often, and/or as needed. Apple's released two revisions since 10.4's release back in June, and they're working on the third right now.

Sadly, due to the requirements of some of my classes, I'm not typing this from the PowerBook I SHOULD have. (Damn you, Sun!)


21 posted on 09/18/2005 6:45:49 PM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: Jorge

That's a good question. All the rest of this is just g(r)eek to me.


22 posted on 09/18/2005 6:50:29 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: goldstategop
install Eric L. Howe's free Agnis blocklist M

I never heard of it. How long have you had it, and where do you get it?

23 posted on 09/18/2005 6:53:05 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Terpfen
It does seem that most everybody's OS is getting strung out -- too many changes, coming way too fast. It's unsettling the speed with which RH ES is updating these days -- hardly a week goes by without major update. That's why I went to Solaris 10 GA.

The incessant deluge of attacks of all kinds, probably because we have broadband, is very very high these days.

The wife runs windowsXP, that or nothing says her [-( But at least I have her running Linux for games, so there is still some hope.
24 posted on 09/18/2005 6:53:05 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: Tarpon

OS X updates are at least fairly transparent, so they aren't a major inconvenience.

Honestly, I like constant updates, at least if they're easily-applied. Microsoft's "patch Tuesdays" annoy me, because it means I have to wait a full month for a fix, all for the benefit of some IT guys who can't just have their users wait until the IT department distributes the patches.

(Yeah, I'm annoyed.)


25 posted on 09/18/2005 6:58:21 PM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: beef
They could write incredibly secure code if they would simply

  1. Write program code in Ada (rather than C and its derivatives),
  2. Leave out all those unnecessary bells & whistles (Eudora and Internet Explorer do not need to have their tentacles in everything...that's how these damned things infect the systems in the first place), and
  3. Abandon Mickeysoft and used a more securable, open-source OS like OpenBSD, and
  4. Leave the kernel, OS executables and libraries on read-only media.

These simple steps alone would enhance security enough to elimintate 99% of the problems enumerated in this article.

26 posted on 09/18/2005 7:05:18 PM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: TheHound

Nothing a few hundred billion couldn't solve. ;)


27 posted on 09/18/2005 7:06:46 PM PDT by new cruelty
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To: rbg81
"Hate to burst your bubble, but the reason Hackers target Windows and Explorer is because they are the dominant OS & browser. More bang for the buck for their effort don't ya know. If something else were on top, that would get targeted (and compromised) too. The more code, the more flaws to exploit."

Most Internet servers are open source UNIX systems. Open source UNIX OSs and packages are updated with security fixes much more quickly than is MS software--most often before crackers can get in. That's why UNIX systems are more secure.

Learn to use and secure a UNIX system, and you might learn a little more about security. Windows systems should not be directly accessing the Net without UNIX systems and good systems administrators between them and the Net, IMO.
28 posted on 09/18/2005 7:09:19 PM PDT by familyop ("Let us try" sounds better, don't you think? "Essayons" is so...Latin.)
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To: Crackingham

How can these people get cash out of your account? I can see getting the credit card info, but I dont think many banking sites permit online wire transfers without prior written authorization.


29 posted on 09/18/2005 7:22:04 PM PDT by montag813
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To: rbg81

Heere we go again.


30 posted on 09/18/2005 7:27:51 PM PDT by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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To: Prime Choice
"They could write incredibly secure code if they would simply

1. Write program code in Ada (rather than C and its derivatives),
2. Leave out all those unnecessary bells & whistles (Eudora and Internet Explorer do not need to have their tentacles in everything...that's how these damned things infect the systems in the first place), and
3. Abandon Mickeysoft and used a more securable, open-source OS like OpenBSD, and
4. Leave the kernel, OS executables and libraries on read-only media.

These simple steps alone would enhance security enough to elimintate 99% of the problems enumerated in this article."


I agree with you, mostly. I don't know that much about Ada except that it's object oriented. I'm surprised that these guys don't have some kind of class or wrapper around their buffers to ensure that you can't overrun them. I consider things like documents to be static, but MS and that crowd just loves to build macro languages into everything. They will do everything they can to automatically run code and then when you get infected with something they tell you it's all your fault for not going in and drilling down through every menu there is looking for the one obscure box you uncheck to shut it off. Then the automatic updater comes in to load up the latest batch of untested garbage and in the process turns it back on. I think, though, that any of these OS's can be made secure, it's just a matter of them spending time doing that instead of adding more features that nobody uses. Read-only media is good, too. I'd like to see them keep an indelible provenance for every process, detailing how it got spawned right back to the bootloader.

I am personally more worried about a digital 9/11. If I was OBL, I would do everything I could to get a bunch of my boys working at MS in the group that runs the Windows Update service.
31 posted on 09/18/2005 7:40:45 PM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: TheHound; Yehuda

I had a talk with someone today...

We spoke of how Bush Knew 9/11 was coming

And, how the Mossad knew 9/11 was coming...

All I could ask was...

Bush is Jewish??

Who'd a thunk it!


32 posted on 09/18/2005 7:51:55 PM PDT by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: rbg81
Hate to burst your bubble, but the reason Hackers target Windows and Explorer is because they are the dominant OS & browser

No bubble burst. You use what you want to use, and risk getting viruses and worse. I (and others) will use MacOS, and have the virus-free competitive advantage over you.

33 posted on 09/18/2005 7:56:46 PM PDT by Theo
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To: beef
I am personally more worried about a digital 9/11. If I was OBL, I would do everything I could to get a bunch of my boys working at MS in the group that runs the Windows Update service.

Information warfare is better suited to espionage than terrorism. In the final analysis, network and utility outages don't evoke a sense of terror; they evoke a sense of annoyance. See also The Myth of Cyber-Terrorism.

34 posted on 09/18/2005 9:26:20 PM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: rbg81
Hate to burst your bubble, but the reason Hackers target Windows and Explorer is because they are the dominant OS & browser.

Untrue. They are most-exploited because they are the most insecure. Any third-rate hack with Visual Basic can (and often has) written trojans and worms that can easily nail Outlook, Outlook Express and a host of other MS malware. That doesn't speak to product popularity; that speaks exclusively to product insecurity.

35 posted on 09/18/2005 9:31:31 PM PDT by Prime Choice (E=mc^3. Don't drink and derive.)
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To: Crackingham
The keylogger software captures the letters, numbers, etc. that you type. Eventually the keylogger transmits the captured info to the bad guy.

Seems to me this is where a "two-way" firewall like Zone Alarm comes in. ZA will pop up a screen asking if you want the program to have access to the Internet. If you say no, the bad guy never gets the info.

Do I understand this correctly? Are there keyloggers that can get around ZA?

36 posted on 09/18/2005 9:38:03 PM PDT by upchuck (A fireman running up the stairs at the WTC as the towers began to collapse: HERO defined ~ Ben Stein)
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To: Crackingham
Last week, UC Berkeley researchers reported that a $10 microphone near a keyboard could, with sophisticated analysis of the sounds made by different keys, reveal most of what was being typed — enough that the researchers could guess 90% of five-character passwords within 20 tries.

We're all doomed.....

37 posted on 09/18/2005 9:39:54 PM PDT by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Crackingham; All

Can anyone tell me why my Dell laptop keeps getting the mouse cursor hi-jacked to the corner of the screen? At least 3 or 4 times/minute, the cursor jumps to a corner and I have to struggle to get the blasted thing back under control. It does it while I'm surfing the web, while I'm typing in Word & Frontpage & Notepad, while i'm typing here, and probably even when I take a bathroom break, for all I know.

I've done everything I know to do and can't get rid of it. I've tried Ad-aware, Spybot Search & Destroy, AVG antivirus, stopping all the unecessary start-up garbage that Dell adds & runs in the background, checking for Comet Cursor crapware, etc, etc.

It's so irritating because this same computer has done this before and I managed to stop it, but it's been so long ago I can't remember what i did.

I'm going to bed now, but maybe someone will come along and take pity on me and offer a suggestion. It's getting so bad, I halfway expect my coffee cup to start moving every time I go to pick it up!


38 posted on 09/18/2005 10:02:40 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Jorge
I also would looooove to have an answer to this one:

Does this mean if you don't type your password it can't see it? How about if you copy and paste?

39 posted on 09/18/2005 10:04:36 PM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Jorge

They will still be able to get it. They are looking at the blank that is filled in not the actual keystrokes, if they did that there would be extra info for them to search through.

Just because the screen shows "******" to the user the programs still see the PW.

The only way to be sure of security is to not use the online banking.


40 posted on 09/18/2005 10:16:47 PM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: Nita Nupress
Download Win Patrol and run it. I'll bet that you will find more things that can be disabled in the start up. If you pay Win Patrol a fee they will give online support to identify each program that it finds and give detailed info so you can decide if you want to disable it or remove it.

How old is the LT? Has it ever had the "Pepsi Syndrome"?

Could be the mouse pad, not software...

41 posted on 09/18/2005 10:23:57 PM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: Nita Nupress
Also download and run this HiJackThis
42 posted on 09/18/2005 10:28:17 PM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: ChefKeith
Just a quick note to everyone. A lot of spyware is installed when people download freeware programs.

Even though I use a Mac, I don't install freeware, except from the Apple web site, or other trusted sources, like Adobe.

Mac OSX notifies you before it will download any executable, and asks whether you're sure you want to download it. You also have to enter the system administrator password to install it, even if you are logged on as the administrator. This prevents a lot of problems. It also requires you to give permission the first time a program runs, and requires you to give permission to get a password from the keychain (the storage area for passwords), the first time a program asks for it.

A lot of these are options on Microsoft, but apparantly it ships with all the doors unlocked, and you have to know how to change the settings.

I also turn off Java and Javascript if I'm going to a site I don't completely trust. Just a few things to keep the gremlins off the hard drive.

43 posted on 09/18/2005 11:18:24 PM PDT by Richard Kimball
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To: Richard Kimball

Agreed

These are things that I have been using for over a year and have had no trouble.

I just make sure they come from a reputable download site.


44 posted on 09/18/2005 11:26:01 PM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: ChefKeith

Thank you so much for the tips. I'll try this evening (or asap) and let you know if I find anything.


45 posted on 09/19/2005 5:33:46 AM PDT by Nita Nupress
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To: Nita Nupress

By any chance are you using an optical mouse? They get bizarre if dropped to often. If no optical mouse I think you have a laptop hardware problem. ALSO- You can always reformat and see if that solves the problem.


46 posted on 09/19/2005 5:40:01 AM PDT by dennisw (If you can serve a cup of tea right, you can do anything. - Gurdjieff)
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To: Prime Choice
"network and utility outages don't evoke a sense of terror; they evoke a sense of annoyance"

A few weeks ago, I would have said that being couped up in a stadium for a few days with limited food and water was an annoyance. I think they guys with the powerpoint slides are underestimating the seriousness of this problem. We are heavily dependent on the integrity of the automatic update process at Microsoft, Symantec and a host of other companies. AFAIK, there is no oversight of what they ship to your computer
47 posted on 09/19/2005 6:48:06 AM PDT by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: beef
If I was OBL, I would do everything I could to get a bunch of my boys working at MS in the group that runs the Windows Update service.
Suspect Claims Al Qaeda Hacked Microsoft

Suspected member of the Al Qaeda terrorist network, Mohammad Afroze Abdul Razzak, claimed that Islamic militants infiltrated Microsoft and sabotaged the company's Windows XP operating system, according to a source close to Indian police.

Afroze, arrested by Mumbai (Bombay) police Oct. 2, has admitted to helping plot terrorist attacks in India, Britain and Australia, India's Hindustan Times newspaper reported Saturday.

During interrogation, Afroze, 25, also claimed that a member or members of Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network, posing as computer programmers, were able to gain employment at Microsoft and attempted to plant "trojans, trapdoors, and bugs in Windows XP," according to Ravi Visvesvaraya Prasad, a New Delhi information systems and telecommunication consultant.

Prasad, moderator of an Internet mailing list on south Asia security and information warfare, told us that Afroze made the claims in a police confession. Officials in the Mumbai police commissioner's office were not immediately available for comment.

Of course, this raises the question: if they succeeded, how would anybody tell the difference?
48 posted on 09/19/2005 7:14:42 AM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: upchuck

Somebody with physical access to the computer can install the keylogger and tell ZoneAlarm to give it permission. If the user doesn't check the list of permitted programs, this will go undetected.


49 posted on 09/19/2005 7:18:06 AM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: Crackingham

Every Breath You Take bump.


50 posted on 09/19/2005 9:11:49 AM PDT by clyde asbury (Happiness is Ypsilanti, Michigan in my rear view mirror.)
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