Posted on 09/21/2005 4:28:16 PM PDT by SmithL
GROTON, Conn. -- The commander of a U.S. nuclear submarine that collided with a Turkish cargo ship in the Persian Gulf this month was relieved of command Wednesday and two other officers were reassigned, the Navy said.
Cmdr. Steven M. Oxholm put the submarine in a hazardous situation, a Navy investigation found, and he received a letter of reprimand. The Groton-based USS Philadelphia was traveling on the surface of the Gulf on Sept. 5 when it slammed into the bulk carrier M/V Yaso Aysen.
Citing a lack of confidence in Oxholm's ability to command, Rear Adm. John Bird relieved him of his duties. Oxholm will return to Submarine Group Two, based in Groton, for a new assignment.
Nobody was injured and the damage was minor.
(Excerpt) Read more at boston.com ...
PING for another career shot.
Hell, It will ruin his whole career
It seems that everytime the Navy crashes a boat or sub, they end up taking it out on the commander.
"...A collision at sea can ruin your whole day...."
Not to mention a Naval Officer's career!
Tack on 25 centuries and "your career".
And your point is?
Right or wrong, isn't this pretty much SOP?
That's the Navy Way.
They ran into a bulk carrier while running on the surface. WHO was on watch??? Anyone?
That thing has a radar return the size of a Walmart, and the sonar signature of a Mack truck. I bet they sack more than just the CO. XO and COB ought to be next.
Thank you for your service Commander.
You got that right.
Error is not an option in the subfleet
Keelhauling and the lash aren't an option, firing is the next best thing.
Last I knew, simply putting your destroyer on a nice soft sandbar at low tide was enough to get you relieved of command.
The Navy has very high standards.
That being said, whenever I hear about something this blatantly obvious, I wonder what "the rest of the story" is. Was there some covert reason to want to stop that particular ship without resorting to torpedoing it?
Call me paranoid, but I find it difficult to believe that any crew in the US Navy could screw up this badly.
US Navy ships run on the surface under EMCON (Emissions Contorl) which means all radars and active sonars are turned off to prevent their electronic signatures from being detected and recorded by an enemy. I don't know what passive sonar capability is for a SURFACED submarine. With Iran on the other side of the Gulf, you'd better believe that sub was running under EMCON. At most, there might have been some small navigation radars running.
A submarine running surfaced would probably (I'm an ex-carrier sailor, so I don't know for sure)place some kind of running/anti-collision lighting on (if this happened at night), but with such a low profile it's possible for lookouts (if any) on the Turkish ship to miss them).
I'm admitting to having not read the entire article, but, the blurb above did not mention if the sub was running surfaced at night (which would help mitigate the circumstances; it's possible that Turkish ship was also running without lights).
In any case, since the skipper is the man in charge, his is the head that rolls, regardless of who had the conn at the time of the accident.
Shoulda been aboard in 1986 when the Enterprise grounded on a sand bar in Tokyo Bay, in daylight, with Japanese harbor pilots alongside. Took us two days to get off that sucker with the help of tugs.
If a boat is lighted then it is lighted with legally required running lights, stern light and Sub ID light (orange strobe 3 sec period).
The article mentioned that the sub was doing "maritime security" operations in the gulf, to prevent smuggling of weapons, drugs and terrorists. One presumes they had to conduct some kind of "safety inspection" of the Turkish ship after the collision.
Maybe I wasn't far off the mark after all.
Even under EMCON, their passive sonar should have been able to plot the precise course, speed and location of all other surface ships in the area (that's kind of the point of the fire control system.)
A sub should also be quiet enough to run at fairly high speed without generating enough noise to impair sonar reception (again, that's kind of the point.)
If it were at night, and for some reason the other ship were sitting there with it's engines shut down and it's lights off, making like a hole in the water. . . again, that would be rather suspicious, no?
COB? The Chief of the Boat? Why remove him? He has absolutely nothing to do with navigation or ship control. COB is an administrative position given to the senior enlisted person onboard, not an operational position.
More likely, the XO, Navigator and OOD (0fficer of the Deck) along with the entire quartermaster crew as well as Sonar and Fire Control.
I'm not sure about this, but I believe that a submarine's pasisve sonar gear runs along the side of the sub. If it is high enough above the waterline, then passive sonar is pretty much useless. If we have any submariners on the thread, please chime in.
If it was engaged in anti-smuggling ops, then I would tend to believe this was being done at night. Common sense that a smuggler would use the cover of darkness to cover his misdeeds, assuming the Turk was a smuggler and not just a dopey merchie who forgot to turn his lights on.
Not submarines. When running on the surface, the turbulence and engines create so much noise that the sub's passive sonars are practically useless.
And subs usually run with a standard commercial radar that would have surely spotted this vessel.
Most likely scenario is the sub was approaching for maritime operations and the CO got a little too aggressive in his maneurvering.
But, when in open seas, there is also the possibility the the Turkish vessel deliberately put itself on a collision course with the sub and the sub couldn't get out of the way. Overseas, US Ships have to alwasy be on the lookout for foreign vessels that WANT to be hit so they can sue the Navy for compensation. We had to deal with this big-time whenever we went to Hong Kong.
Nope. The primary passive sonar array is present in the nose of the sub, or sonar dome. However, there is a towed-array sonar housing that runs along the length of the sub to protect the towed-sonar array. However, the array is completely useless while in the housing. It has to be trailed several hundred feet behind the sub (to get away from own-ship's noise) in order to be useful.
If it's (passive sonar)in the nose, then when surfaced, a good portion of the nose is above water or in mere feet/inches of water, so what good is it? I mean, when the nose is not actually underwater sonar capability must degrade, no? What about flow noise over the nose?
I'm not sure a surfaced sub would run with a towed array strung out behind it. Would you run surfaced with all that cable behind you in a crowded waterway like the Gulf? That's just asking to get that cable run over and cut, isn't it? Although I have seen DD's running with towed arrays deployed, they were running actual ASW sweeps, otherwise they're housed.
Again, I'm not a submariner, just asking questions.
Thanks for the info.
Actually, the nose is completely under water, even when surfaced. Problem is, the noise is so loud that the sonar displays actually turn white and you can't see much of anything (sonar displays are visual representations of sounds that operators use to help find contacts). Hence the degradation in sonar capabilities is surface and speed related.
The reality is, subs never operate on the surface except when entering or exiting port, UNLESS there is a very good reason to do so. In this case, must have been the maritime operations. You are right, subs usually take in the towed array before running on the surface. Don't want to cut off a million-dollar microphone is something happens. I only brought up the towed-array to explain the housing which runs along the length of the sub. Many people confuse it as the actual sonar, when in fact, it is simply a cover for the sonar. Surface ships, like the DD's you mention, have a different type of towed-array, one that has a float on the end and keeps the end from trailing below the DD like a hook on a fishing line. Subs don't do that. Wouldn't make much sense to float an array when you are trying to be stealthy.
Here's a great picture of a sub running on the surface:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0868901.jpg
Adm. Bird bit him bad with the " no confidence in his ability to command." The ex sub commander should seek other employment.
He'll see out the assignment at subsqudron 2 then leave the navy.
There is nothing else for him
Our standards are a bit higher than yours, apparently.
Bye, bye birdie...
My son is a Commander {ex-submariner on a boomer} and I asked him about this incident, his reply was, "We can't afford mistakes". Period.
Somebody takes it in the throat, and in the Navy it's the guy that runs the boat. They only give those fellows one chance. The only way to achieve perfection, is to demand it.
Apparently you have a bit of a comprehension problem.
God bless you Sons focus
He is the one to take official (headline) condemnation but trust me others will also suffer. This will ruin more than one career.
Would EMCON exclude the use of small commercial (i.e. Raytheon) radar sets that can be found on any ocean going fishing boat?
Yes it would. Anything that emits any kind of electronic signal is shut down while observing EMCON.
Everytime there is a collision or grounding in the Navy you discover that a crew collectively took positive action to screw up this badly. It never happens that you are just steaming along blindly and wham - discover an uncharted sea-mount. There is always a collective foul-up.
In this particular case it was inexcusable that a submarine was run over by a surface ship while on the surface. Somewhere between the OOD's eyeball, the periscope watch (with night vision) and sonar (which does work just fine on the surface) the watch should have known about and evaded this ship. In fact, I will bet that everyone knew the ship was there and just did nothing about it while it steamed right over top of them, unless they turned to make the collision happen.
Believe me, this was not another one of those - there but for the grace of god go I.
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