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Boat owners say they were fearful during Coast Guard search
The Monterey Herald ^ | September 18, 2005 | VIRGINIA HENNESSEY

Posted on 09/22/2005 2:42:37 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

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Seems the jackboots are out in all their goose-stepping glory...
1 posted on 09/22/2005 2:42:49 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: abner; Abundy; AGreatPer; alisasny; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; Angelwood; aristeides; Askel5; ...

PING!

Anyone planning on buying a boat?


2 posted on 09/22/2005 2:43:59 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Hey, Cindy Sheehan, grow up!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

They need to tell us what's going on when they do that sort of thing.


3 posted on 09/22/2005 2:45:48 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

"I'm not saying we won't, but I'm not saying we will."


4 posted on 09/22/2005 2:47:26 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Oh yeah, to avoid offending anyone lets make sure our coast guard is completely unarmed when they confront drug runners and terrorists, and hey let's stop enforcing our laws and trying to stop illegal activity and security threats. How about disarming our police too.

Isn't it more than a little insane to compare this to death squads in argentina? Such whining!


5 posted on 09/22/2005 2:48:06 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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Now sing along...

"..O'er the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Brave..."

Kind of leaves a lump in one's throat and a tear in the eye!

6 posted on 09/22/2005 2:49:02 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: Mount Athos
, and hey let's stop enforcing our laws

Like the 4th Amendment?

7 posted on 09/22/2005 2:49:09 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Coasties seem friendly enough, but anyone fishing for Salmon in Alaska out of thier little boat can attest to the nasty way these supposidly "safety inspections" are carried out. It goes way beyond the need of safety and way beyond what you would tolerate for your home. The catch: Often a Boat is your home.

Your wonderfull Supreme Court has held these gun-point searches are legal.

8 posted on 09/22/2005 2:49:30 PM PDT by konaice
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
10:30 PM Safety Inspections? What a crock. They were fighting the War on Terror, often known by the acronym, WOD.
9 posted on 09/22/2005 2:50:15 PM PDT by Cagey
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To: cripplecreek
They need to tell us what's going on when they do that sort of thing.

The hell they do. Ask anyone who has been boarded. You are held at gunpoint. Literally.

10 posted on 09/22/2005 2:50:31 PM PDT by konaice
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To: All
Coast Guard officials say they are authorized by maritime law to board and search vessels on U.S. waters, including waters that lead to U.S. waters, to enforce federal laws.

I certainly wasn't aware of that. Does that mean that they can search boats docked in Chicago any time they please? Does it also include land-locked bodies of water?
11 posted on 09/22/2005 2:50:43 PM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: Mount Athos
Oh yeah, to avoid offending anyone lets make sure our coast guard is completely unarmed when they confront drug runners and terrorists, and hey let's stop enforcing our laws and trying to stop illegal activity and security threats. How about disarming our police too.

Or maybe how bout a warrant?

Amendment IV:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Nah, that far too constitutional...

12 posted on 09/22/2005 2:51:05 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: Mount Athos
Warren said the officers were attempting to ensure the safety and compliance of docked boats by checking for oily water in their bilges and that their sanitation devices were in locked position. Some searches were conducted at night in an effort to catch boats before they went onto the bay for the weekend.

Yep....them dang terrorists might not have their "head" devices locked into position.....

13 posted on 09/22/2005 2:51:38 PM PDT by The SISU kid (Politicians are like Slinkies. Good for nothing. But you smile when you push them down the stairs)
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To: konaice
Your wonderfull Supreme Court has held these gun-point searches are legal.

Do you know the reasoning for not applying 4th amendment protections to these searches?
14 posted on 09/22/2005 2:52:19 PM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: freeeee

Hassle muslims and leave the rest of us alone..heheh..seriously its like cavity searching old ladies at airports. Fire everyone in command.


15 posted on 09/22/2005 2:52:44 PM PDT by samadams2000 (Nothing fills the void of a passing hurricane better than government)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The water nazi's don't have to obey the same rules that normal police do. They pretty much do whatever they want.


16 posted on 09/22/2005 2:54:08 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Coast Guard officials say they are authorized by maritime law to board and search vessels on U.S. waters, including waters that lead to U.S. waters, to enforce federal laws.

Including navigatible waters, this means the Mississippi,
the Tennessee, and other large rivers, if you cruise on
them THEY have jurisdiction and THEY are the law.
You must be prepared for a safety inspection, this is not
your average lake.

Still sounds odd though, more like a drug tip, etc.


17 posted on 09/22/2005 2:54:33 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: samadams2000

Meanwhile, every jihadi harboring planet on the face of the earth is given prefered status in next years visa lottery.


18 posted on 09/22/2005 2:55:35 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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"And I'm proud to be an American,
where at least I know I'm free.
And I wont forget the men who died,
who gave that right to me.

And I gladly stand up,
next to you and defend her still today.
' Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land,
God bless the USA!"

Sniff... sniff... I'm getting all choked up....
< blows nose in hanky >

19 posted on 09/22/2005 2:55:35 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Typical. Go after those most likely to be law abiding because they are easy and least likely to cause problems.

Most of those young coasties wouldn't know what to do if they had to use those weapons. THAT is what makes me nervous. Soldiers are forced to patrol live fire zones like NOLA w/o mags but these guys roam around marinas and boats where there are LOTS of tripping hazards. Were their weapons loaded? This is a disaster waiting to happen.

My boat was once boarded by a USCG search party for a "Safety Inspection" while I was cruising along in Valdez, AK. The poor lad who had to climb from the inflatable into my boat had on a Sam Browne with a .45 auto, two spare mags, flashlight, handcuffs, radio, etc. and was wearing a PFD. He'd have still sunk pretty fast had he fallen in.


20 posted on 09/22/2005 2:55:35 PM PDT by 43north (If you're not liberal at 20 you have no heart. If you're still liberal at 40 you have no brain.)
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To: andyk
Does that mean that they can search boats docked in Chicago any time they please? Does it also include land-locked bodies of water?

Yes and it's a very good thing.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

21 posted on 09/22/2005 2:55:46 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
When Jones showed them the bilge, the officers repeatedly, and with increasing forcefulness, demanded to know if there were other accesses to the bilge.

What they were looking for is drugs. If they find them, they just take your boat.

22 posted on 09/22/2005 2:56:07 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
"To me it reeks of Nazi Germany and the death squads in Argentina," he said. "I don't want my name on their list."

Holy flying balls of dung beetle dung! Another melodramatic wuss gets his sword polished by the MSM!

23 posted on 09/22/2005 2:56:11 PM PDT by MarineBrat (When it rains, New Orleans makes its own gravy.)
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To: samadams2000
Fire everyone in command.

I try to do exactly that every election day.

24 posted on 09/22/2005 2:56:50 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The Founding Fathers would be appalled. Why aren't we?


25 posted on 09/22/2005 2:56:52 PM PDT by surely_you_jest
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To: Mount Athos
How about disarming our police too.

I'd say that's a good idea if they start busting into homes with M16's to perform 'safety' inspections.

26 posted on 09/22/2005 2:56:54 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
I'm only hearing the one side to this story in this article. I wonder how cooperative these people really were. Coast Guard does Board Vessels. They also have to deal with smart alec people who drink/partying and are not cooperative on holiday weekends. If they were out of line, they should be reprimanded but this news story alone, does not have proof enough to make that conclusion.</p>
27 posted on 09/22/2005 2:56:56 PM PDT by GodBlessUSA (US Troops, past, present and future, God Bless You and Thank You! Prayers said for our Heroes!)
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To: GodBlessUSA
They also have to deal with smart alec people who drink/partying and are not cooperative on holiday weekends.

True, but part of the negative reception that people give to the coast guard is that they feel violated because they have no idea that the coast guard can just board your boat any time they feel like it. People in America tend to think that you need a warrant or probable cause for a search.

Your average American citizen would never have voted to allow the water nazi's a blank exception to the constitution.

28 posted on 09/22/2005 2:59:30 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Stingray51

bump


29 posted on 09/22/2005 2:59:47 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: andyk

The great lakes are not landlocked but are navigatible
waters.


30 posted on 09/22/2005 3:00:26 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: The SISU kid

The 'Gestapo' aura is well known to upper level officers. One of them talked with me at some length about the growing attitude problem of some of his subordinates whom he called "Water Nazis".

The term was his, not mine. But it was something I would agree with.

Far too many of America's police forces, and waaay too many agency persons authorized to carry a gun, seem to have a "Rambo" mentality instead of the traditional police force serving the citizens of America.


31 posted on 09/22/2005 3:01:02 PM PDT by GladesGuru ("In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles)
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To: freeeee
I'm not defending their actions, but on the water the Coast Guard has a different set of rules.

It's just one more reason not to own a boat.

L

32 posted on 09/22/2005 3:01:05 PM PDT by Lurker (Reality cannot be changed by wishful thinking, good intentions, or legislation.)
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To: GodBlessUSA
I wonder how cooperative these people really were.

Yeah really. I mean the nerve of a lowly American citizen to take offense at an nighttime armed bording.

Private property rights? 4th Amendment? Ptthhhh. They're the United States Coast Guard and they'll do whatever the hell they like!

What do these people think this is anyway? A free country?

33 posted on 09/22/2005 3:01:25 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Admirality law may be allowable on the seas. Can someone speak about this? Seems like inland lakes aren't open for non-civil (admirality law).

I suspect this may be pretty legal, since it was coastal water. It would only be lawful elsewhere under War Powers Act, which is my current believe/hope the current Patriot Act and current police state behavior stems from.

My legal understanding is that even War Powers are constitutional (since they are stated in the US Constitution), but must be limited to two years...

34 posted on 09/22/2005 3:01:41 PM PDT by veracious
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

A “safety inspection” conducted at 10:30 PM is a bit out of line – in fact, way out of line.


35 posted on 09/22/2005 3:02:51 PM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Moss landing? Monterey Bay? You'd have to have been there to know what a joke this really is. There is NO commercial shipping anywhere in Moneterey Bay. Moss Landing is the ultimate little dinky nothing of a harbor. There is probably not anything worthy of national security concerns anywhere in Monterey. Clint Eastwood's private golf course? The old cannery now a gallery filled mall?

Unfortunately while you might demand a warrent if it were your house the JBTs want to search you won't get far on a boat with that request, as the one guy found out.


36 posted on 09/22/2005 3:03:06 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: tet68
The great lakes are not landlocked but are navigatible waters.

Yep. That's why I asked about Chicago first, and then landlocked bodies. The Chicago example was intended to show the extreme of what the open search policy means. If you've ever seen the harbors in Chicago, it's a lot of boats. It amazes me that any and all of them are subject to search at any time.
37 posted on 09/22/2005 3:03:28 PM PDT by andyk (Go Matt Kenseth!)
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To: Lurker
It's just one more reason not to own a boat.

We're Americans, dammit. We're not supposed to be afraid to do anything. That's why this place is supposed to be better than Pisswater, Central America.

This is one more reason alright. A reason to get real angry come election day.

Barring that, its a good reason to point your boat at the horizon and not look back.

38 posted on 09/22/2005 3:04:52 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: GodBlessUSA
The Coast Guard personnel are required by regulations to be armed when boarding. Imagine the consequences of boarding a smuggler's boat unarmed.

The Coast Guard has the right to board any vessel, anytime and that is unfortunately needed. There are some bad people out there who import bad things. It's unfortunate that good mariners have to be subjected to unnecessary searches.

If the CG personnel were disrespectful or discourteous that's one thing. However, most are highly professional and just doing a job. The weapons were no doubt holstered and not presented in any threatening manner.

My first thought is, why is this person crying so?

39 posted on 09/22/2005 3:05:13 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: freeeee
This is one more reason alright. A reason to get real angry come election day.

We did that in 1994,2000, 2002, and 2004. Things got worse, not better.

40 posted on 09/22/2005 3:06:05 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: cripplecreek

every jihadi harboring planet = (nation)

Spellcheck don't catch stupid.


41 posted on 09/22/2005 3:06:11 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: R. Scott
A “safety inspection” conducted at 10:30 PM is a bit out of line – in fact, way out of line.

If smugglers come in at midnite they should not be harassed?

42 posted on 09/22/2005 3:06:48 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
No search warrant required?
Probable cause?

Anything?

43 posted on 09/22/2005 3:07:31 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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To: surely_you_jest

"The Founding Fathers would be appalled. Why aren't we?"

How about generations of educators "educating" for the new group man of which John Dewey was so fond?

If you want to do something, try forcing some changes at your local school board meetings. If you need something to demand changes over, try reading one of those 'texts', or attending some classes.

Volunteers are always welcome, and this gives you a chance to see what is really going on.

For a "Three bags full" experience, study the curriculum (a.k.a. The Master Plan).


44 posted on 09/22/2005 3:07:37 PM PDT by GladesGuru ("In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles)
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To: GladesGuru
Far too many of America's police forces, and waaay too many agency persons authorized to carry a gun, seem to have a "Rambo" mentality

Unfortunately it's a "all to common" attitude with many LEO's out in the field today. But on the other hand...a double edged sword appears...

45 posted on 09/22/2005 3:08:28 PM PDT by The SISU kid (Politicians are like Slinkies. Good for nothing. But you smile when you push them down the stairs)
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To: Rodney King
We did that in 1994,2000, 2002, and 2004. Things got worse, not better.

Apparently you voted for the wrong people.

The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

46 posted on 09/22/2005 3:09:08 PM PDT by freeeee ("Owning" property in the US just means you have one less landlord.)
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To: tet68
Coast Guard officials say they are authorized by maritime law to board and search vessels on U.S. waters, including waters that lead to U.S. waters, to enforce federal laws.

Big Freaking Deal. The FBI is authorized be federal to search houses to enforce federal laws, the state police are authorized to search buildings in the state to enforce state laws, the local po-po are authorized by state and local laws to search local houses and buildings for violations of local laws but in all cases THEY NEED A WARRRANT. Saying "maritime law" is not a magic incantation that makes the Constitution go away. Maritime law is bound by the limits of the Constiution just like every other law promulgated by a US political sub-division. The real law they have backing them up is "Might Makes Right", there are six of us w assault rifles, and one of you in your PJs in the middle of no where. Time for another Vin Suprynowicz book.

47 posted on 09/22/2005 3:09:08 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: freeeee
There are laws on the water. Coast Guard does do boardings. You know that if you own a boat. My father has owned a boat his entire life and has had several boardings. Never felt violated. Part of the deal when you own a boat. Part of the job if your in the Coast Guard.

All I'm saying is, there is no proof that this article isn't an exaggeration of two vindictive boat owners who we don't know, weren't out of line themselves. Before I would jump to a conclusion and make negative comments of the Coast Guard, I would want some proof that it's fact.

48 posted on 09/22/2005 3:09:17 PM PDT by GodBlessUSA (US Troops, past, present and future, God Bless You and Thank You! Prayers said for our Heroes!)
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To: Mount Athos

"Isn't it more than a little insane to compare this to death squads in argentina? Such whining!"

We keep saying it: next time you capsize or need rescuing, call your local drug cartel.


49 posted on 09/22/2005 3:09:36 PM PDT by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: King Prout; Squantos

ping


50 posted on 09/22/2005 3:09:51 PM PDT by Translates
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