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THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS New Orleans police can't disarm evacuees - orders weapons returned
Houston Chronicle ^ | September 24, 2005 | Bill Walsh

Posted on 09/24/2005 12:47:27 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

NEW ORLEANS - Gun rights groups won a temporary restraining order Friday preventing police in New Orleans and a nearby parish from confiscating people's firearms when seeking to evacuate residents.

U.S. District Court Judge Jay Zainey ordered the New Orleans Police and St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Office to stop taking weapons from law-abiding people and return any they already took in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms.

But news reports quoted Compass as saying that only law enforcement officials would be allowed to have firearms and Deputy Chief Warren Riley as saying, "We are going to take all the weapons."

Wayne LaPierre, president of the National Rifle Association, said his group documented 30 to 40 cases of people having their weapons taken away after Katrina hit Aug. 29.

"In many cases, it was from their homes at gunpoint. There were no receipts given or anything else at a time when there was no 911 response, and these citizens were out there on their own protecting their families," LaPierre said."The worst thing about it is that it was at a time of complete collapse of the government's ability to protect people."

In the immediate aftermath of Katrina, there were widespread reports of looting throughout New Orleans. At the outset, the city ordered the police to ignore looters and focus instead on search and rescue. But within days, crime spiraled out of control and police were directed to restore order.

To gain control of the situation, Gov. Kathleen Blanco issued emergency power orders, which allow the authorities to regulate firearms. But the suit alleged that law enforcement officials overstepped the bounds by taking guns away in violation of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Louisiana
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; bang; banglist; donutwatch; govwatch; guns; libertarians; neworleans; nopd; nra; weapons
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1 posted on 09/24/2005 12:47:28 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"We are going to take all the weapons."

Hey Compass...just once tell the truth.

2 posted on 09/24/2005 1:06:47 AM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I wondered how this would turn out. It will be interesting to see if the confiscated firarms ended up in the "collections" of some of nawlin's finest. Also, one can only imagine the condition of the returned weapons if they were chunked in the back of a vehicle in a pile and then dumped in a damp/moldy repository somewhere. I would be pi$$ed off enough to sue for damages/replacement costs.


3 posted on 09/24/2005 1:10:35 AM PDT by NC Native ("Bombing begins in five minutes"... Ronald W. Reagan)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Yeah right, like they will return the Lawfully owned firearms to these people.

The people should have given them away bullets first.


4 posted on 09/24/2005 1:13:25 AM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: ChefKeith

Do not rebuild New Orleans. Just declare it a designated hurricane zone. Perhaps Ma nature will put all future hurricanes into this wasteland.


5 posted on 09/24/2005 1:23:26 AM PDT by tdscpa
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To: NC Native
We will find that there is no record whatever of who actually owns those firearms. Getting them back from the authorities in any condition will be very, very unlikely, requiring proof of ownership and probably a lawsuit.

Wish I were wrong. No receipts for the weapons, remember.
6 posted on 09/24/2005 1:29:56 AM PDT by Iris7 ("Let me go to the house of the Father." Last words of His Holiness John Paul II)
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To: ChefKeith

Most people in that situation will not shoot if it means the death of their families. Shucks, to shoot would at least have meant certain death. This will stop most people.


7 posted on 09/24/2005 1:34:35 AM PDT by Iris7 ("Let me go to the house of the Father." Last words of His Holiness John Paul II)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
When we built our house here in NC. I decided to lay out our basement garden walk out to the Lake whereby ONE room was 5 feet shorter than the adjoining rooms. This is where the gun vault is housed for the antique guns, some over 100 years old are in safe keeping.

The Sigs and Rugers are at the ready in our bedroom and in my office.

8 posted on 09/24/2005 1:39:30 AM PDT by Cobra64
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To: Iris7

From my cold or warm dead hands.


9 posted on 09/24/2005 1:39:59 AM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: tdscpa

If only we could get that lucky and save a few billion $$$$.'

However the poliscum will never let that happen...


10 posted on 09/24/2005 1:42:01 AM PDT by ChefKeith ( If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking...)
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To: ChefKeith

MAJOR VICTORY FOR FIREARMS OWNERS
AND FREEDOM IN LOUISIANA [NRA Statement, email to NRA members]

On Thursday, NRA filed a motion in United States District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana seeking a temporary restraining order to block authorities from confiscating law-abiding citizens' firearms in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Today, we are happy to report, the Court sided with NRA and issued a restraining order to bar further gun confiscations from peaceable, law-abiding victims of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans.

Federal Judge Jay Zainey granted NRA's motion for an indefinite temporary restraining order and ordered those in power to cease and desist gun seizures. The authorities were also ordered to return guns seized by them or their agents to anyone "...who lawfully possessed them, upon presentation of identification and execution of a receipt therefore."

Commenting on the ruling, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said, "This is a significant victory for freedom and for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. The court's ruling is instant relief for the victims who now have an effective means of defending themselves from the robbers and rapists that seek to further exploit the remnants of their shattered lives."

Joining LaPierre in hailing the U.S. District Court decision was NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox. "This is an important victory. But the battle is not over. The NRA will remedy state emergency statutes in all 50 states, if needed, to ensure that this injustice does not happen again."

The controversy erupted when The New York Times reported that the New Orleans superintendent of police directed that no civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to have guns and that "only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons." ABC News quoted New Orleans' deputy police chief, saying, "No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons."

NRA also pledges that it will continue its work to ensure that every single firearm arbitrarily and unlawfully seized under this directive is returned to its rightful law-abiding owner.

Although this is great victory, we still need to hear from members who have been a victim of this gun confiscation initiative. If you have personally had a gun confiscated in Louisiana since Hurricane Katrina hit, please call (888) 414-6333. Be prepared to leave only your name and immediate contact information so we can get back to you. Once again, we are seeking contact information from actual victims of gun confiscation in Louisiana only.


11 posted on 09/24/2005 2:42:26 AM PDT by zipper (Freedom Isn't Free)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Oh by the way, I hope everyone saw the CNN.com clip (yes, CNN, I couldn't believe it either) that made the case that 8 N.O. police officers had systematically looted an entire school-busload (also stolen by them) of goods, as they were based in a downtown N.O. hotel. They also looted weapons. They had several witnesses on camera, including the hotel manager that said they also stole a generator as he watched from the roof-- from the hospital next door. They finally left with their busload of loot, going who-knows-where.


12 posted on 09/24/2005 2:46:32 AM PDT by zipper (Freedom Isn't Free)
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To: zipper

Food for thought.


13 posted on 09/24/2005 2:48:55 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cobra64

That would be a great wall to put a hidden door on.

Every gun owner should have a few throw away rifles on hand. Those $100-$200 military surplus rifles. My favorite is the Enfield No 1 Mk 4.

If gun grabbers ever come up the street hand them the surplus rifle and watch them move on down the street. When they turn the corner and the looters come back break out the "Good Stuff".


14 posted on 09/24/2005 3:03:17 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: PeteB570
And to the "Cold dead fingers" crowd.

Talk on the key board is cheap. When a disaster strikes your community some bone head in Law Enforcement may make a "grab all guns" decision. You sit on your porch and when LEOs turn the corner you're going to have a shootout with them? They kill you, take all the guns in the house and now your family gets to face the looters without you and without any protection?
15 posted on 09/24/2005 3:11:23 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
…and return any they already took in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

I hope the people have receipts.
16 posted on 09/24/2005 3:12:41 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Calpernia

FYI


17 posted on 09/24/2005 3:20:46 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

So the gun-grabbers shrug and pick up the ball for their next serve. When do we see federal criminal charges filed against individual New Orleans police officers under 18 USC 241, "Conspiracy against rights?" Hellooo, NRA?


18 posted on 09/24/2005 3:38:54 AM PDT by Grut
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To: NC Native
I would be pi$$ed off enough to sue for damages/replacement costs.

The people who had their "CIVIL RIGHTS" violated should sue the crap out of anyone and any entity that illegally stole their guns and stepped on their 2nd Amendment rights.

Let's fight the fascists and dictators just like the ACLU fights our constitutional rights.....WITH LAW SUITS!

19 posted on 09/24/2005 4:20:16 AM PDT by DH
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
gee great - now whos got the records of ownership and the reciept that will no doubt be obligated to obtain posession of

this sucks like a hoover

20 posted on 09/24/2005 4:22:34 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

My guess is that a suit will need to be filed for compensation instead. I think the corrupt Mayor of corrupt NOLA said they are bankrupt, so it won't get far. Suffice to say while this is a very worthy cause, all it may result in is setting a precedent. Hopefully that will be enough to stop such idiocy in the future.


21 posted on 09/24/2005 4:31:23 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: PeteB570

You hide it and you lie.


You say you sold it, loaned it, lost it, broke it, threw it away, etc.

Where to hide your weapons?

The time to figure that out is before disaster strikes.

But you raise an excellent question.


22 posted on 09/24/2005 4:34:40 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Revelation 911
gee great - now whos got the records of ownership

If the person bought the firearm at a dealer or ever pawned it then there is a completed Form 4473 that the dealer has to retain for 20 years. I used to make copies for customers that lost or had firearms stolen all the time.

23 posted on 09/24/2005 4:42:23 AM PDT by bruoz
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Cincinatus' Wife

Good work by all of the other groups who brought this suit.


25 posted on 09/24/2005 4:43:09 AM PDT by snowsislander
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To: xzins
I'd rather just hand him a junker and say with a straight face "Yes Officer, this is all the weapons I have at the moment." Best not to outright lie. Then break open the first stash.

Our Subdivision has an effective neighborhood watch program, most of the active patrolers are retired military, some of us have generators and I have both 800Mhz and low range scanners. Based on location and threat risk our area risk is probably low. But the point is most of our subdivision is ready and should not have a problem with local LEOs.

The key is everybody should have a plan.
26 posted on 09/24/2005 4:45:37 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: bruoz
I was peaking with regards to the govt entity that the weapon was surrendered to - I can picture them obligating the production of a reciept, claiming that without it, anyone can show up and claim a gun

4473 is a great tool yes - but how many transactions happen without it - especially in states with relaxed rules ?

27 posted on 09/24/2005 4:45:47 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: PeteB570

Greetings from hurricane alley. (Can't believe I still have power.) Me and my son have collected a handful of junk guns that we bought from different people. We have those in an easy to find spot. I agree, buy some giveaways. Seems a pretty simple solution to me.


28 posted on 09/24/2005 4:59:20 AM PDT by auntyfemenist (Show me your papers...)
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To: Iris7
Iris7 wrote:

Most people in that situation will not shoot if it means the death of their families. Shucks, to shoot would at least have meant certain death. This will stop most people.

Thats one of the reasons for forming a 311 neighbohood orginazation

10 U.S.C. § 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

29 posted on 09/24/2005 5:10:46 AM PDT by Abogado (Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt)
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To: PeteB570

There are lies and there are less than full truths.

I could say, "Sorry, but I loaned it to my cousin." You could say, "I lost it." or "I couldn't find it." (All of which could be true some time in the past.)

You don't say anything about your cousin ever giving it back. Just make sure that sometime in the past you actually had loaned it to your cousin.


30 posted on 09/24/2005 5:12:42 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms.

But news reports quoted Compass as saying that only law enforcement officials would be allowed to have firearms and Deputy Chief Warren Riley as saying, "We are going to take all the weapons."

This quote supports what one Freeper said here a few days ago about the confiscation. He or she reported that the order was quietly and quickly rescinded due to tremendous private presssure brought on Nagin, et al.

The denial that they ever issued such an order makes it look like they're running for deep cover as fast as they can. It also means the NRA is likely to be able to force them to agree to a consent decree forbidding such action in the future. After all, if they say they never did it when there's video evidence that they did, they've got to stop digging the hole deeper for themselves. Agreeing to a consent decree is the way to do that.

GO NRA!!!

31 posted on 09/24/2005 5:17:38 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: PeteB570

You're right. When faced with an abomination like that the best thing to do is be armed with a video camera, record the entire "special aktion" by the Einsatz group, state clearly you are not consenting to the operation but are acquiescing to overwhelming force, ask for the authority by which they are performing the confiscation, state you will take whatever legal action is available against them individually and whoever gave the order, demand the identity of the individuals involved, take pictures of al the firearms that are stolen, and demand a signed receipt for all of them. Then, when it's over, contact the NRA and provide them a copy of the tape.

A credible threat of serious legal action like this might even cause the leader of the group to call off the assault on your home.


32 posted on 09/24/2005 5:27:39 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
...return any they already took in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

If members of the NOPD haven't already made off with them.

33 posted on 09/24/2005 5:28:43 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: zipper
Federal Judge Jay Zainey granted NRA's motion

Good thing Zainey is BRAINY. Or at least has enough common-sense and legal acumen to see that these law-abiding citizens Constitutional rights were being violated.

Now to take the corrupt, inept, demonRAT dolts who ordered the confiscations (and some of the idiots that carried out the illegal orders) to court, and slap their asses in prison.

Unfortunately, if they didn't get receipts (which I doubt they did), I don't believe there will be any "immediate relief", especially considering the corrupt and inept PO-lice force there in NO.

I would bet that most of the confiscated guns are now either stolen property in some corrupt NO cop's or politician's house, or are ruined due to mishandling and/or poor storage.

34 posted on 09/24/2005 5:33:19 AM PDT by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: xzins
I could say, "Sorry, but I loaned it to my cousin." You could say, "I lost it." or "I couldn't find it." (All of which could be true some time in the past.)

This is why it is so important to prevent a gun registration scheme such as exists in England, Australia, most of Europe, and which the liberals have been trying to implement in Canada.

Under those schemes, all of the above would be illegal acts, punishable under law. You can't loan the guns, and if you "lose" one you must immediately report it to the police.

In addition, the guns *must* be locked up in a secure safe when not in actual use.

This is why gun registration is effectively gun confiscation.

35 posted on 09/24/2005 5:35:23 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Joe Brower
In documents filed in federal court in Baton Rouge, La., New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Chief Eddie Compass and St. Tammany Sheriff Jack Strain deny ordering the confiscation of firearms.

Hmmmmm....so they responded to the complaint by avering that they didn't order the confiscation????

That means they asserted under oath that they did not order the confiscation.

Seems to me that they could be removed from their offices based on perjured filings in court...hell, they are on record on national TV ordering confiscations.

Any FReepers with standing (live in the parishes "served" by these scum) feel like filing formal complaints with their immediate supervisors all the way up to the Attorney General of the state?

36 posted on 09/24/2005 5:38:13 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Thank G-D for the NRA. Everyone who owns a gun should be a member. If it wasn't for them we would be defending our home with sharpened sticks.


37 posted on 09/24/2005 5:39:26 AM PDT by BadAndy (Yes liberals, I DO question your patriotism.)
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; freedomlover; ...
Ping!

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

38 posted on 09/24/2005 5:41:31 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: PeteB570
When a disaster strikes your community some bone head in Law Enforcement may make a "grab all guns" decision. You sit on your porch and when LEOs turn the corner you're going to have a shootout with them? They kill you, take all the guns in the house and now your family gets to face the looters without you and without any protection?

And you will just hand yours over and now you and your family get to face looters without any protection?

Well?

Obviously it is critically important to elect local representatives that are firmly committed to all individual rights...not just the ones the Dims; ACLU and the their ilk are committed to protecting...

39 posted on 09/24/2005 5:41:39 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: PeteB570

oops...now I see your plan...which will still get you arrested later for obstructing, illegal possession etc... and wind up costing you a boatload of attorney's fees...again, better to elect the proper persons....my apologies


40 posted on 09/24/2005 5:43:14 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: PeteB570

Middle Finger to YOU!


41 posted on 09/24/2005 5:44:40 AM PDT by zzen01
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

"In documents filed",,,,,,,filing FALSE docs.,,,,,,,how much time? How many $$$$ in fines?


42 posted on 09/24/2005 5:47:06 AM PDT by Waco
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Good post.

Always appreciate your posts on these subjects, Cincinatus' Wife. Thanks.

BTW, early on, I wrote an email to the NRA, telling them I was amazed and disappointed that I saw no mention of these illegal confiscations on any of their websites.

I'm sure others did as well, because the very next day, they came out in force.

I'm a Benefactor Life member because I believe, overall, they do a good job, and there is strength (financial and otherwise) in the number of great American's we have in the NRA.

I hope they press this "gun confiscation" issue to the LIMIT to put all other potential gun-grabbers on notice.

43 posted on 09/24/2005 5:48:25 AM PDT by DocH (Gun-grabbers, you can HAVE my guns... lead first.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Every gun owner should have 2 "sets" of weapons
1 OFICIAL
A minimal number of weapons obtained at gun shop with the legal paper work done and with the serial No and prof of ownership deposited in a safe place

2 SHTF GUNS
LEGAL weapons obtained from private sales to be stashed aways and kept in reserve for dire times
THE QUANTITY AND QUALITY OF THIS SET SHOULD BE AT LEAST EQUAL TO SET 1 IF POSSIBLE BETTER
By quality I do not mean that they should be the latest models just good reliable and effective pieces
44 posted on 09/24/2005 5:52:32 AM PDT by 1903A3
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To: libstripper
might even cause the leader of the group to call off the assault on your home

You start making "demands" of JBT's in the process of violating your rights and they'll just eliminate you. Their problem is solved.

45 posted on 09/24/2005 5:54:14 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: Abundy

Well as you read post #15 did you read post # 14 or the other posts I made on this thread?

No. It's clear you didn't. Read all before commenting on one part of one post.


46 posted on 09/24/2005 5:56:39 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: zzen01

Talks cheap on a keyboard. Read post # 14.

Better to work the law issue after the emergency is over. Not during with some testy LEOs that are having a bad day.


47 posted on 09/24/2005 5:58:48 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: Abundy

And I didn't follow my own advice. Sorry.

It's better to work the legal side after the emergency is over. Not during it with a bunch of testy LEOs taking a load of dung from everybody they run into.


48 posted on 09/24/2005 6:00:32 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: 1903A3

I would think a 1903A3 would fit the bill on that.

I like the Enfield line, P14s, Mk 4 & 5s, Jungle carbine. Just something about that .303 British round.

Just another Life Member of the NRA over here.


49 posted on 09/24/2005 6:05:32 AM PDT by PeteB570
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To: marktwain

You are right about registration.

It puts a target on the back of every gun owner. It puts them in a defensive position.

Anyone know what the law is regarding the guns of those who've registered but have died? Does the law specifically assign responsibility to heirs of the estate?


50 posted on 09/24/2005 6:08:05 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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