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Baby Dies When Sleeping Father Rolls Over
KOIN News6 ^ | 9/23/05 | Drew Mikkelson

Posted on 09/24/2005 6:40:31 AM PDT by DuckFan4ever

PORTLAND -- Police say a 3-month-old boy died while "co-sleeping" with his father.

The medical examiner determined that the father rolled over on his son while they were asleep. The father does not face any criminal charges, but it renews a hotly debated issue: Is sleeping with infants a good idea?

The medical director of Legacy's pediatric clinic says when it comes to co-sleeping there are some pros and cons.

Police called the death of the northeast Portland boy Wednesday a "tragic accident," but no law was broken.

Dr. Paul Horowitz says studies have shown that sleeping with babies improves the bonding between infants and their parents, and it supposedly improves breastfeeding rates. However, he says lots of factors can make it risky:

"Especially if the parents smoke, are obese or have been drinking alcohol or taken anything that may impair wakefulness," Horowitz said.

It's not clear in what kind of bed the baby who died was sleeping, but Horowitz says most of the time adult beds are too soft for babies and there are usually too many blankets on adult beds for an infant.

Ultimately, Horowitz says it's a personal choice. But if parents want to sleep with their babies, he says they should ask their doctor about making the experience safe.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: infants; sleep
Tragic. I pray for this family and the infant.
1 posted on 09/24/2005 6:40:31 AM PDT by DuckFan4ever
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To: DuckFan4ever
Darwin 's culling.
This is why CRADLES were invented. Even the poorest of people used them.
We lived across the street from a couple that was so poor they used a cardboard box as a cradle for a while.
2 posted on 09/24/2005 6:43:51 AM PDT by starfish923
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To: DuckFan4ever

Agreed, though this sounds fishy. I can't imagine how anyone could roll over on to a baby and not wake up.


3 posted on 09/24/2005 6:44:00 AM PDT by RedRover
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To: DuckFan4ever
This is sad.  Especially when they could have just shelled out 80 ones for a side sleeper.  I can't imagine the burden of his guilt.

Owl_Eagle

(If what I just wrote makes you sad or angry,

 it was probably sarcasm)

4 posted on 09/24/2005 6:44:12 AM PDT by South Hawthorne (In Memory of my Dear Friend Henry Lee II)
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To: DuckFan4ever
I'm so very sorry for this family. I just hope we don't have presidents' wives and Katie Couric (and anyone else who can pay a nanny to be sleep deprived) going on some crusade against the family bed.

When they went on the SIDS sleep on the back kick a few years ago, my wife said, "the babies will be startling awake all night!" Now I hear they don't really think it helps all that much in the prevention of SIDS. But think of all those sleep deprived parents who for the last decade had their babies on their backs.

5 posted on 09/24/2005 6:47:07 AM PDT by old and tired
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To: starfish923

There are some cultures in which 'co-sleeping' is very prevalent. Some Hispanic families are very much in favor of the practice. This has been a rather contentious topic among pediatricians and some Hispanic groups...


6 posted on 09/24/2005 6:50:29 AM PDT by flixxx
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To: Owl_Eagle

A drawer is free.


7 posted on 09/24/2005 6:50:39 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (Legality does not dictate morality... Lavin)
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To: flixxx
In theory, there is nothing wrong with co-sleeping.
But any moron knows that you do NOT put big and little sleeping together.....because BIG can hurt LITTLE.
Hispanic famillies would know this too.
8 posted on 09/24/2005 7:00:28 AM PDT by starfish923
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To: RedRover

Think about this some more and repost.


9 posted on 09/24/2005 7:04:16 AM PDT by SALChamps03
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To: DuckFan4ever

Oh man, this is so horrible... I would sleep next to both of my children when they were infants, quite honestly it is one of my favorite memories. That being said, I don't really think I ever "slept"... My eyes might've been closed but the sleep was by no means anything deep, I'd have woken up at the drop of a feather...


10 posted on 09/24/2005 7:04:37 AM PDT by Hand em their arse
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To: DuckFan4ever

This happens more often than gets reported. It's very sad.


11 posted on 09/24/2005 7:08:54 AM PDT by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR) [there's a lot of bad people in the pistachio business])
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To: DuckFan4ever
This event used to be so prevalent that it had its own word in older times (in Early Modern English: overlay, as in "The mother overlaid her child and smothered it."). In fact, one of the most famous stories in the Old Testament (Solomon's Judgment) depends on this event... two women sleeping in the same bed with their children.

Only modern economic progress in the US has made separate rooms and separate beds a standard. While I certainly grieve for this family, I also view this kind of occurrence the same way I view those incredibly rare malarial deaths in the US, a chilling reminder of how different (and more advanced) we are from the rest of the world. There but for the Grace of God...

12 posted on 09/24/2005 7:08:56 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwt! Lr bi mst hord, solce!)
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To: DuckFan4ever
Is sleeping with infants a good idea?

DUH.........

13 posted on 09/24/2005 7:11:14 AM PDT by rockabyebaby (I'm not afraid to say out loud what the rest of you are afraid to admit.)
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To: RedRover
See my post #12. Not only is this very possible, it was quite common in the days before modern standards of living made multiple beds per household (especially children's beds, which are temporary in nature) a standard, rather than a luxury.
14 posted on 09/24/2005 7:12:26 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwt! Lr bi mst hord, solce!)
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To: Hand em their arse
We slept with all our babies (3) as have families for millenia. Cribs and such did not come into fashion until the industrial revolution. "Upper class" people had cribs and nursing nannies. This and artificial feeding started in upper classes and spread 'downwards'. That is, that and sleeping apart were a status symbols, not anything scientifically better or necessary for protection.

Now as a grandma I see all our daughters sleeping with theirs (7). Precautions are the key to rational co-sleeping. In general, the baby is kept away from dad on the other side of Mom. Mom has hormones that attune her to the child's waking and cries.

Also, if breastfeeding, one can go back to sleep and not really wake up for night feedings. This and feeding on demand, along with carrying the child during the day in a sling pr pack, causes the mother not to ovulate(not perfect, but reliably). Child spacing of 2-3 years is an advantage to any baby's development. This natural spacing mechanism was disrupted after co-sleeping and artificial feeding (and mother working elsewhere) became Western norms.

Former LLLI leader --

22cal

15 posted on 09/24/2005 7:24:20 AM PDT by 22cal (Forgiven, not perfected)
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To: RedRover
Agreed, though this sounds fishy. I can't imagine how anyone could roll over on to a baby and not wake up.

Correct. Some combination of obesity and drunkenness at play here.
16 posted on 09/24/2005 7:25:15 AM PDT by Vinomori
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To: 22cal
>>sling pr pack,

sling OR pack

Also washing our hands and having closed sewers contributes to disease control in the West, not sleeping in separate beds.

17 posted on 09/24/2005 7:30:10 AM PDT by 22cal (Forgiven, not perfected)
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To: 22cal
Precautions are the key to rational co-sleeping. In general, the baby is kept away from dad on the other side of Mom.

This seems key.

18 posted on 09/24/2005 7:42:40 AM PDT by Lessismore
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To: 22cal

I tried sleeping with my babies, but the constant slight crinkling noises from their diapers or diaper-covers kept me awake, I could not breast-feed on my side without smothering them, and frankly it turned out to be easier to keep them in a bassinet next to the parental bed for awhile. It's impossible for me to imagine anyone who was not drunk rolling over on top of a baby and not feeling the big lump under his back.


19 posted on 09/24/2005 8:24:33 AM PDT by Capriole (I don't have any problems that can't be solved by more chocolate or more ammunition.)
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To: DuckFan4ever
Our babies slept with us when they were little. I can't imagine rolling on them without noticing.

If co-sleeping is deemed dangerous, what about putting your baby in a car? I bet far more babies have died in auto accidents or because someone left them in a hot car.

20 posted on 09/24/2005 8:25:19 AM PDT by knuthom
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To: DuckFan4ever

My aunt who is 61 still talks about sleeping with a baby duck when she was five years old and rolling over and killing it. I can't imagine how much worse it is for this man, and it will probably haunt him.


21 posted on 09/24/2005 8:29:48 AM PDT by libsl (I'm just sayin'....)
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To: 22cal

Thank goodness there is someone rational on this thread. : )


22 posted on 09/24/2005 8:30:30 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a strategy.)
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To: DuckFan4ever

He must be devastated. Prayers on the way.


23 posted on 09/24/2005 8:32:48 AM PDT by BlessedBeGod (Benedict XVI = Terminator IV)
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To: DuckFan4ever
Police called the death of the northeast Portland boy Wednesday a "tragic accident," but no law was broken.

Wow! There ought to be a law! People should have plenty of laws to advise them on their sleeping arrangements. This is an opportunity for a progressive lawmaker to right one of society's wrongs — actually two wrongs: (1) lack of adequate guidance on family management and (2) insufficient number of laws.

24 posted on 09/24/2005 8:36:53 AM PDT by Sarastro
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To: 22cal
Every Mom I know has slept with their child at some point. That is the reality.

With that said - there is a right way and a wrong way to sleep with your infant. Of course the PC police will show up and tell you it isn't true that women may be a bit more capable of it than men.

But you and I know it is true.

There is nothing weird, bizarre, strange , odd or abusive about sleeping with your own infant. But if a person is a heavy sleeper, has been drinking or doing drugs, has taken a bunch of cold medicine or is obese they shouldn't sleep with their infant.

Men are heavier sleepers than women when children are around- it is common sense.

25 posted on 09/24/2005 8:43:53 AM PDT by Diva Betsy Ross (Code pink stinks)
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To: Diva Betsy Ross
Thank you!

What is inevitably left out of these kinds of stories is how many infants have been killed while sleeping in cribs. LOL Does that make sleeping in cribs dangerous? Not necessarily....but you don't place alot of pillows and junk in the cribs, you make sure the slats are appropriately spaced and you don't place them by a window where they can potentially strangle in miniblinds.

Co sleeping requires the same kind of common sense that is used with cribs.

26 posted on 09/24/2005 9:05:25 AM PDT by TNdandelion
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To: 22cal

22cal- Good post.
LLL attachment parent-ers are the greatest! :-)

For a nursing mother to crush her child while sleeping is practically unheard of. Cases of co-sleeping injuries caused by fathers who are not drunk or mind-altered are also extremely rare. Breastfed babies who sleep with their parents are *less* likely to die of SIDS than little ones who sleep down the hall or are not fed human milk.
I don't have children but look forward to co-sleeping with them when I do. I slept next to my godson a number of times when he was an infant, and there is nothing better than waking up with a baby's hand on your cheek or hearing their little sighs as they dream. :-) I found my sleep cycles to be different when my godson was with me-- I slept more lightly and was always conscious of him even in my sleep, and I would wake up every time he stirred. I think it might be different for dads/men though.


27 posted on 09/24/2005 1:16:19 PM PDT by Im4LifeandLiberty
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To: DuckFan4ever

My "candles and sandals" BIL & SIL do this. Their boys seem perfectly fine to me at nearly three and almost one; the older one has a near-genious IQ for his age though he is on the quiet side, and the little one is pretty darn articulate for eleven months; he's ready to walk, no, RUN, already. :)

Their Papa stays home with them and their Mama works. All sharing a bed seems to work for them, though I know (as they've stayed with us) that they do have a barrier-type thing they used when the boys were newborns to prevent a tragedy from happening like this family must now endure.

The sleeping arrangements probably have nothing to do with it, though. What probably makes the difference is that these kids are totally loved and cared for by their own parents (who "spell" one another) and were not institutionalized at birth.

Sad that what used to be a normal, everyday family is now the exception, isn't it?


28 posted on 09/24/2005 1:28:50 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: DuckFan4ever

I, too, will pray for this father. BUT...

What aren't they telling us? Was this father obese? Did he go to bed sober? Was he on medications? Not trying to blame the father, but one senses that we are not being told the whole story. [Why would any FREEPER believe that?]

Our babies usually slept between my wife and me. Although it as been a few years, I distinctly remember times when I would start to roll over towards the baby, and all it took was the slightest touch and I was suddenly wide awake. [Could this be "intelligent design?"]

While others complain that the babies would keep them awake and thus advocate babies sleeping in another room, I feel very strongly that sleeping with parents actually helps infants. Every once in a while I would come out of my normal sound sleep to realize that the baby was troubled. And then a little hand would touch me, and there followed an enormous sigh. I understood. The baby was having a bad dream or something, and as soon as the baby confirmed that Mom or Dad was there, everything was better.


29 posted on 09/24/2005 11:32:19 PM PDT by Lafayette (You would think that Patrick Henry said, "Give me DEMOCRACY or give me death!")
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To: RedRover
oh, I can imagine it very easily......

it's not talked about because its basically accusatory, but some docs think that many cases of SIDs are actually cases of baby being in bed with mom or dad and being rolled upon....

those are not my words......just read them somewhere a few years ago....naturally, they are controversial.....

30 posted on 09/24/2005 11:37:17 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Capriole

I tried nursing my babies in bed during the night but I had to force myself to get up to the rocking chair, because I was falling asleep and was so afraid for the baby....


31 posted on 09/24/2005 11:42:41 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

I breastfed and frequently slept with all 4 of my babies for portions of many nights - we all survived just fine.
I suspect an important key to survival is to not be drunk.


32 posted on 09/24/2005 11:43:00 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: DuckFan4ever

If the little baby needs to be between parents because it is sick or needs to be watched, I would roll a big towel or small blanket on each side of the child so no adult could roll over on the kid. Could have been prevented that easily. Should not have been an issue.


33 posted on 09/24/2005 11:45:22 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: 22cal

What she said! Reminder for tomorrow. I am not awake! nite! Our 3 survived nursing 3 years, each in turn in our bed and now lead their classes with reading scores off the top off the charts, violin, cello and viola, too danged smart for their britches, etc. I treasure the memories and peace at night ... still accidents happen - all I know is that it seemed we were constantly aware of "baby" but still got in our ZZZZs. 'Course mama did all the tough stuff. ;-)


34 posted on 09/25/2005 12:07:19 AM PDT by Tunehead54 (Nothing funny here ;-)
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To: cherry
>oh, I can imagine it very easily......

>it's not talked about because its basically accusatory, but >some docs think that many cases of SIDs are actually cases >of baby being in bed with mom or dad and being rolled upon....

I can imagine great guilt and grief in the parents-- thinking they might be at fault. Surely human nature tells us a few would lie that the baby was in its own bed when found.

But what was the actual cause of the SIDS? Suspicion is not proof is it? I remember an Australian study (old) showing a complete absence of SIDS deaths in aborigines who breastfed and co-slept. That study was not the only one whose results may seem 'accusatory' of Western ways of child-rearing.

>those are not my words......just read them somewhere a few >years ago....naturally, they are controversial.....

Such unsubstantiated gossip, as you must realize, usually is.

35 posted on 09/25/2005 2:43:59 AM PDT by 22cal (Forgiven, not perfected)
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