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27,000 Year-Old Grave of Two Babies Found (Austria)
Reuters/Yahoo News ^ | 9-24-2005

Posted on 09/24/2005 3:27:17 PM PDT by blam

Reuters - Fri Sep 23,11:08 AM ET A more than 27,000 year-old grave with the bodies of two babies is pictured near Krems in Lower Austria September 23, 2005.

Archaeologists of the Prehistoric Commission of the Austrian Academy of Scienses (OeAW) excavated the bodies which were covered with an omoplate of a mammoth. This is the oldest grave ever found in Austria. REUTERS/HO/OeAW Praehistorische Kommission


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 27000; austria; babies; evolution; excavation; found; godsgravesglyphs; grave; multiregionalism; old; year
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1 posted on 09/24/2005 3:27:18 PM PDT by blam
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To: FairOpinion; SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 09/24/2005 3:27:58 PM PDT by blam
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To: All

An omoplate is the shoulder blade.


3 posted on 09/24/2005 3:29:14 PM PDT by newzjunkey (CA: Stop union theft for political agendas: YES on Prop 75!)
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To: blam

27,000 years???


4 posted on 09/24/2005 3:32:20 PM PDT by Bahbah (Praying for those in the path of Rita)
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To: blam

If this is from 9/23/05, and they are still in the grave, how were they able to date it ?


5 posted on 09/24/2005 3:33:28 PM PDT by stylin19a
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To: blam
...more than 27,000 year-old grave with the bodies of two babies is pictured near Krems in Lower Austria September 23, 2005.

Yea, but 22,000 years later the egyptian pharaohs built massive tombs idolizing themselves with slave labor....that's why Africa is the cradle of civilization...../sarcasm.

6 posted on 09/24/2005 3:43:35 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: blam

Assumed to be 27,000 years old how? Assumed to be a wolly mammoth how? Babies of what? Why would it be a "grave"??
Did they believe in God 27,000 years ago and bury the dead in graves?

Carbon dating? LMAO!


7 posted on 09/24/2005 3:52:27 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

Belief in the supernatual isn't a requirement for burial.


8 posted on 09/24/2005 3:55:35 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: blam

Okay, this one is seriously ancient.


9 posted on 09/24/2005 3:56:32 PM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: Decepticon

You have a point there. Now evolutionists have to recalculate all there theories of where man came from. I guess it's not from the "cradle of civilization". somehow mankind crawled from Aussie land, skipped across indoneasia, polpulated China, then Eorope, etc etc.
It explains why everyone likes beer and "shrimp on the barbie" on a hot day.


10 posted on 09/24/2005 3:58:49 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: RightWhale

Wonder if they had red hair?


11 posted on 09/24/2005 3:58:56 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: ASA Vet

I guess not. But belief in the supernatual among aborigionals usualy involved burning the corpses, or leaving them in a cave.


12 posted on 09/24/2005 4:01:29 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

Krems in Lower Austria


13 posted on 09/24/2005 4:01:59 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: Nathan Zachary

Gotta read carefully, bodies found in Austria, not Austrailia--but shrimps on the bar-bee are always a good idea for any civilization


14 posted on 09/24/2005 4:02:05 PM PDT by abigkahuna (Step on up folks and see the "Strange Thing"--only a thin dollar, babies free!)
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To: ASA Vet

If it was a burial of that group, there might be traces of flowers and beads, but maybe the mammoth shoulderblade was a similar local custom.


15 posted on 09/24/2005 4:07:42 PM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: RightWhale
I was actually wondering about the other red heads.
27,000 years would place them at the end of Neandertals.
16 posted on 09/24/2005 4:13:23 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: ASA Vet

Yeah, that was the group that buried people with flowers and beads. Ceremonial stuff.


17 posted on 09/24/2005 4:19:40 PM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: RightWhale

Oh, I thought you were talking about west coast hippies....


18 posted on 09/24/2005 4:31:39 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: blam
'Would these children be alive today and could child restraint seats prevented these deaths? Some blame the current administration... see our exclusive story with a child safety expert, next... as News 6 reports at eleven...'
19 posted on 09/24/2005 4:32:50 PM PDT by steveo (Member: Fathers Against Rude Television)
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To: Nathan Zachary
"...somehow mankind crawled from Aussie land, skipped across indonesia, polpulated China, then Europe, etc etc."

You may be closer to the truth than you realize. Sundaland was still above water at this time and the Last Glacial Maximum(LGM), 23,000-18,000 years ago hadn't 'set-in.'

20 posted on 09/24/2005 4:36:55 PM PDT by blam
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To: Nathan Zachary
BTW, the LGM pretty much killed everyone in Europe and some suspect the Neanderthals too.

Europe was re-populated from China and other areas east of there...maybe even Sundaland which was a warm paradise (maybe even, The Garden Of Eden) before the Ice Age ended.

21 posted on 09/24/2005 4:42:13 PM PDT by blam
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To: Decepticon
"Yea, but 22,000 years later the egyptian pharaohs built massive tombs idolizing themselves with slave labor"

And the evidence for the "slave labor" for the pyramids is....?

By the way, the largest and oldest pyramid contains no tomb and also has no Egyptian hierglyphics or writing in it, other than some graffiti that later fortune hunters left.

22 posted on 09/24/2005 4:46:06 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: blam
Thank you for another interesting science thread Mr Blam Sir!

(Please keep your recon patrol away from them bones until they can be exumed.)

23 posted on 09/24/2005 4:46:24 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: stylin19a
"If this is from 9/23/05, and they are still in the grave, how were they able to date it ?"

(Ahem) They did all the science work including dating the remains before publishing the article. (That's the correct way to do it, btw)

24 posted on 09/24/2005 4:46:39 PM PDT by blam
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To: Nathan Zachary

You think there is not evidence of humans older than 27,000 years outside of Austria? Wrong.


25 posted on 09/24/2005 4:48:00 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli
"By the way, the largest and oldest pyramid contains no tomb and also has no Egyptian hierglyphics or writing in it.

The oldest and largest pyramid in the world is in South America...the Chinese are disputing that assertion because they think they have one older...the jury is still out, South America or China, not Egypt.

26 posted on 09/24/2005 4:50:09 PM PDT by blam
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To: Wuli
And the evidence for the "slave labor" for the pyramids is....?

The movie "Ten Commandments", starring my hero Charlton Heston.

27 posted on 09/24/2005 4:50:38 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: ASA Vet; PatrickHenry
Belief in the supernatual isn't a requirement for burial NO not at all...but the more primitive the person, the more that supernatural beliefs rule the roost. The dating alone would make this possibly eligible for the evolution ping list. at least it would wreak havok with the 'world is only 5000 years old' Creationists. How about it PatrickHenry?
28 posted on 09/24/2005 4:54:01 PM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Robert Heinlein)
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To: Nathan Zachary

I'm just trying to figure out what it is that you're laughing at. Don't you think that they can pretty well identify the bone of a mammoth? Let's see...Austria...that would make them babies of whatever humans were living in Austria at that time? Seems logical. Why wouldn't it be a grave? You don't have to be a Christian or a Jew to bury your dead lovingly.


29 posted on 09/24/2005 4:56:56 PM PDT by Clara Lou (W00t! IBTZ ! FP! w00t!)
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To: blam

of course....my question wasn't clear. I was curious as to the dating because the remains were still in the grave.
But I guess, they only need a small amount of materiel to do the testing.
Sorry for my ignorance.


30 posted on 09/24/2005 5:01:15 PM PDT by stylin19a
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To: Wuli
By the way, the largest and oldest pyramid contains no tomb and also has no Egyptian hierglyphics or writing in it, other than some graffiti that later fortune hunters left.

If you refer to Nubian pyramids, in the "cradle of civilization", they were constructed at a much steeper angle than Egyptian ones and were not tombs, but monuments to dead kings. Hard to believe, but egyptians built memorials to themselves, Greeks and Romans built bathhouses and coliseums for the public.....cradle of civilization....bahhh.

31 posted on 09/24/2005 5:02:19 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: Decepticon

No, I am referring to the largest of the three well known pyramids at Ghiza.


32 posted on 09/24/2005 5:21:36 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Decepticon

Oh, I see, and your evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone came from that movie staring that Dances With Wolves guy? Right?


33 posted on 09/24/2005 5:23:46 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: blam

I was referring to Egyptian pyramids, but thanks for the post anyway.


34 posted on 09/24/2005 5:24:57 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli

Not exactly long on humor, are you?


35 posted on 09/24/2005 5:27:33 PM PDT by ShadowDancer (Stupid people make my brain sad.)
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To: ASA Vet

I think 27,000 years before the present would mean they are anatomically modern human beings, not Neanderthals, but apparently there is evidence for Neanderthals deliberately burying their dead.


36 posted on 09/24/2005 5:30:10 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus
About 29,000 years ago is the commonly accepted end of Neandertal.
Another 2000 years isn't much of a stretch considering they were around for 200,000 years.
And yes they buried their dead.
37 posted on 09/24/2005 5:42:52 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: From many - one.

check later


38 posted on 09/24/2005 5:44:30 PM PDT by From many - one.
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To: Verginius Rufus
Guess we'll have to wait for the published reports.
(Which I'm sure will be posted on FR.)
39 posted on 09/24/2005 5:44:43 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Osama Bin Laden Al Khanzier)
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To: Nathan Zachary
I would think burial goes a long way back. Burial has a lot more to do with ridding the area of the smell of decay than a belief in the Lord.

The article doesn't say "assumed" to be a woolly mammoth. It says that it WAS the omoplate of a mammoth.

Babies of what? It looks like babies of humans to me.

Nathan Zachary? LMAO!
40 posted on 09/24/2005 5:58:29 PM PDT by Artemis Webb
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To: stylin19a
If this is from 9/23/05, and they are still in the grave, how were they able to date it ?

Let's see: How about C14 dating the mammoth omoplate that covered the burial and leaving the human remains in situ?

Sounds like reasonable archaeological technique to me...

41 posted on 09/24/2005 6:03:18 PM PDT by TXnMA (Iraq & Afghanistan: Bush's "Bug-Zappers"...)
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To: TXnMA

thanx...see my post # 30


42 posted on 09/24/2005 6:04:43 PM PDT by stylin19a
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To: blam

Bush's fault.


43 posted on 09/24/2005 6:04:46 PM PDT by Alouette (Militant Neocon Pundit)
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To: Wuli
No, I am referring to the largest of the three well known pyramids at Ghiza.

If you mean the Great Pyramid of Giza, one of the Seven Wonders of the World, it most certainly is a tomb. It was also covered in the most beautiful marble at one time, most of which now covers floors and walls in Cairo.

Oh, I see, and your evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone came from that movie staring that Dances With Wolves guy? Right

It was a joke FRiend....however, believing that all the workers were just a bunch of union laborers, happily dragging 100 ton stones around the desert is slightly more than unbelievable and borders on ridiculous.

44 posted on 09/24/2005 6:06:45 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: Artemis Webb
How different is the omoplate of one mammoth species from another? What other kinds of mammoths were there anyway besides woolly mammoths? Cottony? Leathery? Polyestery?

It will be interesting to see what else is discovered about the babies. Were they twins? Some cultures consider twins unlucky, but I don't know if any such cultures are known to have existed in Europe. Of course the date assigned to this burial is so much earlier than any historical European societies that it would be risky to assume cultural continuity.

45 posted on 09/24/2005 6:12:02 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: RightWhale

Richard -III involved?


46 posted on 09/24/2005 6:12:17 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Verginius Rufus; ASA Vet
The Neanderthal Theory
47 posted on 09/24/2005 6:24:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: Decepticon

Limestone, not marble.


48 posted on 09/24/2005 6:31:56 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch ist der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: blam
Too much in that link to absorb at one sitting. The main point, I gather, is that prehistoric Europeans painted pictures of animals on cave walls and played flute music at them.

Some of the information may be good, but not all of it--I saw some statements which were dubious or definitely false. Kurdish is an Indo-European language so not related to Basque. The Etruscans had monogamous marriages--they did not behave like bonobos.

49 posted on 09/24/2005 7:06:42 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: ASA Vet
"Belief in the supernatural isn't a requirement for burial."

Sometime about 120,000 years ago, our ancestors stopped leaving their dead laying where they dropped, and began burying them underground. Why do you suppose they started this practice? What was their "reasoning?"
50 posted on 09/24/2005 7:15:25 PM PDT by krinkrayyado (Huguenot in my church)
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