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27,000 Year-Old Grave of Two Babies Found (Austria)
Reuters/Yahoo News ^ | 9-24-2005

Posted on 09/24/2005 3:27:17 PM PDT by blam

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To: Decepticon
"...believing that all the workers were just a bunch of union laborers, happily dragging 100 ton stones around the desert is slightly more than unbelievable and borders on ridiculous."-Decepticon

"Who Built the Pyramids?"

"Not slaves. Archeaologist Mark Lehner, digging deeper, discovers a city of privileged workers."

by Jonathan Shaw

"There were slaves in Egypt, says Lehner, but the discovery that pyramid workers were fed like royalty buttresses other evidence that they were not slaves at all, at least in the modern sense of the word. Harvard's George Reisner found workers' graffiti early in the twentieth century that revealed that the pyramid builders were organized into labor units with names like "Friends of Khufu" or "Drunkards of Menkaure."

harvard-magazine.com/

51 posted on 09/24/2005 8:41:28 PM PDT by Daaave ("All last night sat on the levee and moaned.")
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To: blam

It's Bush's fault.


52 posted on 09/24/2005 10:03:24 PM PDT by JRios1968 (Ok, Children, once again: Read comment...Think...Then post reply...always in that order)
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To: Decepticon

There is no evidence inside the great pyramid that it was ever intended or used as a tomb, and as I said, there are no Egyptian scripts or hieroglphics anywhere inside that pyramid, other than graffiti that Egyptian fortune hunters left.

There are modern names given to various passages and chambers in the Pyramid, but they they are all assumed labels that modern explorers gave them. There are no Egyptian descriptions of the great pyramid's construction at all, none that are contemporaneous with any of the historical dates given for its construction and nothing, nada, zip inside the Pyramid - unlike every other "tomb" of any size anywhere in Egypt.

The Pharoah Kufu tried to put his name on the great Pyramid, after his workmen could not figure out how to get into the center of the Pyramid. He tried to rewrite the Pyramid's history in what he had historans write at the time, but he failed to destroy the earlier histories that already referred to it long before his time.

Both the great Pyramid and the Sphinx are enigmas (their origins lost in history) and likely predate formal Egyptian history.


53 posted on 09/25/2005 7:32:31 AM PDT by Wuli
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To: blam
Interesting, note the top figure, the head appears to have a pointed cone shape above its head or was that the true shape of its head? Either its some hat or the head was that way at birth OR like some tribes purposely formed that way as a status the way some tribal women stretch their necks with layers of rings, etc.
54 posted on 09/25/2005 7:39:16 AM PDT by SunnySide (Ephes2:8 ByGraceYou'veBeenSavedThruFaithAGiftOfGodSoNoOneCanBoast)
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To: Wuli
There is no evidence inside the great pyramid that it was ever intended or used as a tomb....

So what were the boats for?

55 posted on 09/25/2005 12:39:30 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: Decepticon

No one is sure, and all is speculation, about the boats and "boat pit" found near the Pyramid.

There is no assurance that the boat was buried - as in "covered up", because the condition of the surrounding earth it was found in is the same as core samples of earth in many places around the pyramid; indicating some possibility that it was not buried, other than by time. That feature together with the fact that the base of the pyramid is lower than the base of the "boat" pit, and the clear sign of water erosion on the base of the Sphinx, provides some speculation that the Pyramid was once surrounded by a man made canal or moat running between the plateau the Pyramid sits on and a natural or man made lake that once surrounded the Sphynx.

When funery boats are associated with "tombs" they were not buried outside a "tomb" but placed in them.

There is also speculation that Kufu, having claimed the great Pyramid for himself in his time and long it was built, may have attempted to imitate his funery assemblenge outside the Pyramid - since he knew nothing of the inner chambers and had no way to "move" his funnery works into it.

Had the Pyramid been constructed as a "tomb" then the inner chambers and tunnels would have been decorated. During construction, the sides of the stones that would become the walls of the chambers and tunnels would have been carved by stone masons and Egyptian script and hieroglyphics painted on top of the carved surfaces, telling the life stories, adventures and conquests of the figure "buried" in the "tomb". The great pyramid has none of these attributes and no evidence inside that it ever did have such attributes. The total absence of these features makes it unlike any "tomb" of any noteworthy person in historical Egypt.

Another anomalie of the great Pyramid is that it exhibits two major features that seem contradictory to each other. From mathematical, engineering and astronomical perspectives the great Pyramid is far more advanced than any other human-engineered structure anywhere in Egypt, and yet it is among the oldest man-made structures in Egypt, and particularly older than all other Pyramid structures in Egypt. Usually advanced accomplishments of a culture come later, not sooner.


56 posted on 09/25/2005 9:35:09 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Wuli

Interesting information, thanks for taking the time to reply.


57 posted on 09/26/2005 6:17:49 AM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
My apologies for the sudden burst of GGG pings. This is unusual, and has to do with my slowness after FairO' handed back the duties (due to having to get to a training early this morning), and isn't representative of the normal volume. This should be the last one (or close to it), although it appears first (the reason this disclaimer is shown here). Thank you.

Thanks go to FairOpinion for ably executing the ping duties.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

58 posted on 09/26/2005 8:37:19 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: Clara Lou

I'm thinking practically. You bury your dead to keep the smell down and to keep animals away.


59 posted on 09/26/2005 9:04:59 AM PDT by pa mom
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To: Nathan Zachary
somehow mankind crawled from Aussie land, skipped across indoneasia, polpulated China, then Eorope,

Perhaps you should look at Austria on a map before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

60 posted on 09/26/2005 9:29:55 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: krinkrayyado
Sometime about 120,000 years ago, our ancestors stopped leaving their dead laying where they dropped, and began burying them underground. Why do you suppose they started this practice? What was their "reasoning?"

Survival..

This is just a "logical" guess, not a scientific opinion from a well respected source..

If you bury your dead, scavengers can't get to them..
If scavengers can't get to them, they don't "learn" to acquire a taste for human flesh..
It does not become a recognized part of the scavenger menu..

Couple this with the dangerous nature of an armed human, or worse, an armed group of humans, and scavengers ( and predators ) begin to develop an "aversion" to humans, whether singly or in groups..

You don't want hyenas to develop a "taste" for you, or your family, or tribe.. ( except maybe Mukoo.. He's a jerk and steals your food sometimes..)
And sometimes Hyenas don't wait until you're dead.. A hungry Hyena will attack if you're alone, and weak, and seemingly defenseless..
Likewise with predators.. once they learn that humans are easy prey, human becomes the "snack de jour"...
Human is much easier to hunt than antelope.. It may not taste as good as pig, but pigs have tusks and can hurt you..

Choosing prey is a learned behaviour for both predator and scavenger..
Burial is a logical action encouraged by self-interest..

61 posted on 09/26/2005 9:35:00 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: TXnMA; stylin19a

There are all kinds of ways to date a burial site, besides carbon dating. For example, if there are tools or other cultural artifacts nearby they can help to establish a timeframe for the burials. Also soil level samples contain elements, either mineral or organic, that can reveal things like volcanic eruptions or pollen from common plants of the era.


62 posted on 09/26/2005 9:41:41 AM PDT by To Hell With Poverty (I don't think I'm half as good as I know I really am.)
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To: Verginius Rufus
I think 27,000 years before the present would mean they are anatomically modern human beings, not Neanderthals,

You're probably right. Modern humans were starting to move into Eastern Europe about 50,000 years ago and would have been in Austria by then. At 27,000 years ago, you are at the extreme tail end of the Neanderthals and by that time they were limited to extreme southwestern France.

63 posted on 09/26/2005 9:42:03 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: shuckmaster

"somehow mankind crawled from Aussie land, skipped across indoneasia, polpulated China, then Eorope,

Perhaps you should look at Austria on a map before you make a bigger fool of yourself."

LMAO

first good laugh of my dad, needed it too :)


64 posted on 09/26/2005 9:47:59 AM PDT by zoddent
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To: stylin19a
If this is from 9/23/05, and they are still in the grave, how were they able to date it ?

Same way you date anything else. Get its attention, pay it a few nice compliments, make it laugh a little on occasion, then see what it's going Friday night.

65 posted on 09/26/2005 9:50:18 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Islam is merely Nazism without the snappy fashion sense.)
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To: SunnySide

It even looks like they may have been conjoined at the head to me. If so, I would suspect that IF they were born alive it's highly likely that they were believed to be a bad/evil omen or some such.

Very interesting.


66 posted on 09/26/2005 9:50:47 AM PDT by Gardener
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To: krinkrayyado
Sometime about 120,000 years ago, our ancestors stopped leaving their dead laying where they dropped, and began burying them underground. Why do you suppose they started this practice? What was their "reasoning?"

From 120,000 to 60,000 years ago, our ancestors existed nearly 100% as beachcombers along the shores of east Africa and southern shores of Arabia and Asia. Perhaps they started the habit of burying the dead to keep from feeding the sand crabs?

67 posted on 09/26/2005 9:51:21 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: blam

Babies? Maybe little adults?


68 posted on 09/26/2005 9:58:58 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
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To: Decepticon
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Esp. by folks who sound authoritarian, and claim the Sphinx and the Great Pyramid predate Egyptian history. There are construction marks and such.
69 posted on 09/26/2005 10:12:47 AM PDT by muleskinner
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To: muleskinner
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Esp. by folks who sound authoritarian, and claim the Sphinx and the Great Pyramid predate Egyptian history. There are construction marks and such."

Is it okay to believe a professor of geology/geophysics?

Dr. Robert Schoch says the Sphinx is much older than previously dated.

70 posted on 09/26/2005 10:38:24 AM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
Discover Infants' Remains Mon Sep 26, 9:42 AM ET

VIENNA, Austria - Archaeologists have uncovered the remains of two newborns dating back 27,000 years while excavating a hillside in northern Austria, the scientist in charge of the project said Monday.

The find made last week near the Danube River city of Krems is important because the newborns were buried beneath mammoth bones and with a string of 31 beads — suggesting that the internment involved some sort of ritual, said Christine Neugebauer-Maresch, the project's leader at the Austrian Academy of Sciences.

"They could be twins," she said. "They have the same (length) limbs and were buried together."

The burial — one of the oldest in the region — is also significant in that the children were not simply disposed of after their deaths, Neugebauer-Maresch said. The burial suggests "they were members of society," she said.

Archaeologists are combing the area to see if the infants' mother is nearby, as giving birth to twins in that era would have been extremely difficult and potentially fatal.

71 posted on 09/26/2005 11:08:14 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Earliest evidence of Arnold's family tree.

(Not his direct line, of course, but of the genetic material of the extended group from which he descended.)

72 posted on 09/26/2005 11:32:18 AM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: blam

Wow !!


73 posted on 09/26/2005 12:51:51 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: Bahbah
27,000 years???

Don't think the carbon dating is working...

74 posted on 09/26/2005 1:17:18 PM PDT by madison10
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To: blam

"Mammoth told me there'd be days like this."

[rimshot!]


75 posted on 09/26/2005 7:22:37 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated by FR profile on Sunday, August 14, 2005.)
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To: blam

How fortunate that a calender from the Austrian National Bank from 25,000 B.C. was in the grave to date it.


76 posted on 09/26/2005 7:24:38 PM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
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