Posted on 09/25/2005 5:26:58 AM PDT by Happy2BMe
The differences might also be rooted in history, perception and politics.
"It's an interesting phenomenon," said Arsalan Iftikhar, national legal director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "I think a lot of it revolves around immigration laws."
Britain's "more relaxed" immigration laws have led to a greater influx of uneducated, blue-collar workers different from the well-educated, well-established Muslims who immigrated here 30 to 40 years ago, he said. They centered themselves in urban ghettoes, he said, and "that necessarily isolates them." That isolation breeds exclusion, which can be a prelude to violence.
"The kids in Britain who saw things that way were alienated to start with," CAIR Research Director Mohamad Nimer said. "They were not seen as British citizens; they were seen as Muslims although they were British citizens. 'Now, you're a Muslim, and you don't belong here.'"
"Our situation in America is different because of the history of this country," he said. "People in this country are accepting to new populations."
That's not to say that life is perfect for American Muslims. U.S. popular thought often puts entire groups under scrutiny, and Muslims - more specifically, Muslims of Arab descent - are sometimes targeted.
"We blame all Muslims for the bad deeds of any particular Muslim," Nimer said. "We cut up the maps and we distribute blame at will."
The most obvious example of that is Sept. 11, after which Islam became synonymous with terrorism.
"Bizarre policies were implemented by the government post-9/11," Zogby said. "But the pendulum's going back because a whole lot of people are pushing it back."
Nimer noted that the push has been a political one. "When people feel that there is some injustice that is taking place, they channel that feeling into increased political participation," he said. "People were stunned by the PATRIOT Act, but it motivated them to join coalitions to basically repeal it."
"A lack of political guidance, so to speak, in Europe" has exacerbated an already problematic situation there, he said.
Not everyone has maintained optimism, though. Akbar Ahmed, author of "Discovering Islam: Making Sense of Muslim History and Society," is wary. He asserted that the U.S. is not immune to radicalism or extremist behavior, and that internal insurgence is possible.
"We live in an environment that is much more dangerous than we assume it is," he said. "If there is something else that happens here, this fragile fabric could unravel."
Still, Zogby is confident that the fibers of America form a stronger vestment.
"Of course there are bad guys," he said. "We'd be foolish to ignore it, but I think the pressures that work in the other direction are too great."
James Zogby, founder and president of the Arab American Institute, expressed the idea in the simplest terms."You can be a third-generation Kurd in Germany and still be a Turk," he said. "After one generation, you become an American, not only in citizenship but in identity."
Except along the border, where it might be seen as racist and imposing.
This infidel isn't buying it.
Hogwash. If they haven't abandoned the Quran, they are capable of anything.
The muslims in the US I know want only one thing. Submission to islam!!
-a wave of concern crossed the Atlantic and sprinkled the American shore: Could something like that happen here, too?-
Gosh, COULD something happen? Ya mean OTHER than OKC and 2 "tragic events" at the WTC? And who knows how many other incidences not released to the public?
We discuss the news once in a while and every time he makes a supporting statement about the Mooselimb terrorism, he doesn't support it outright, but says we as Americans don't understand their religion and the rest of the world does.
In his eyes that makes american stupid.
I ask him would he send his own children strapped with bombs to blow up innocent people, he says of course not, that's why I live in America.
Game over.
I simply cannot convince them that the JOOOWS and George Bush don't run the world, but I'm working on it.
Americans are always looking for something new to go with the meat and potatoes.
This infidel has a problem with it also.
We here in America have no problem with people coming here and becoming "Americans".
The problem with "The Religion of Peace" is that it's cult followers come here and live as "Muslims living in America waiting for the law of Islam to come".
None of the 9/11 hijackers were permanent residents. If anything, the whole experience demonstrated that Middle-Easterners in general and Saudi Arabians in particular are poor houseguests who should not be allowed admittance.
It's long overdue to reconsider the concept of the United Nations staff being allowed to run loose!
Even if it were true that we aren't creating jihadis, we're still importing them all the time. As the tread about the 2007 immigration lottery showed the other day, the elgible nations are predominantly muslim + france and germany.
We're commiting national suicide.
I dont trust any mooslims,period.
"Even if it were true that we aren't creating jihadis, we're still importing them all the time. As the tread about the 2007 immigration lottery showed the other day, the elgible nations are predominantly muslim + france and germany.""We're commiting national suicide."
===============================================
What can you do with 70,000 terrorists?
(click)
To date, some 1 million non-Mexicans have entered the U.S. through Mexico, of which about 700,000 have disappeared, according to a report in the Dallas Morning News.No one knows how many might be terrorists, though rough estimates are that about 70,000 of those non-Mexicans are Saudis between the ages of 18 and 34.
Ponder that as you abhor racial profiling and replenish your stores of duct tape.
And there, there is a pre-existing underclass but they get to wear really cool burqas or chadors and to enjoy the glory of being stoned to death or murdered by family should they allow themselves to be brutally raped.
Just minor cultural differences, you understand ...
Not exactly, we blame Islam. Islam is the root of terrorism. As long as Islam lives, there will be jihad.
The goal of jihad is the world Caliphate. Terrorism is only one tool of jihad. We are also losing to Islam when we cave in to the sensitivities of muslims by allowing them special swimming privileges so that their men are not exposed to western women in bikinis and by changing product designs the way Burger King did with its ice cream and Nike did with its shoes.
In the U.S., Islam is the most restrictive of cultures and is accordingly the lowest (most restrictive) common cultural denominator. Slowly, but surely, it is taking over. Most of the time in the U.S., muslims who complain get results. Here is a link to a Daniel Pipes article which cites the MANY examples of how Islam is reshaping our society. This article isn't new but you'll be amazed at how many changes had already occurred pre 9/11.
bttt
zogby, now there is a guy i trust.
Thanks for the ping!
Exactly
Clueless moron.
He needs to stop by a prison sometime.
They either adhere to it or they fear it. We don't.
Having written the following:
"You can be a third-generation Kurd in Germany and still be a Turk," he said. "After one generation, you become an American, not only in citizenship but in identity."
Would the good Mr. Zogby be so kind as to tell us how many of the Mosques in America stopped Sammi Al Arian during his speechs calling for killing Jews, and refused to allow Al Arian to raise money for the Jihadi-whackos?
While on the subject, Mr. Zogby, just how many of the multiplying mosques in America have not accepted money from the Whabbi whacko Saudis?
Would the good Mr. Zogby be so kind as to inform us as to how many mosques/madrasses in America do not use texts with Whabbi or other Muslim sect calls for Jihad? How many do not justify the Islamic concept of dhimmitude?
Inquiring minds, not to mention American dhimmi, would like specific answers.
Thanks for the ping! He's right about that. Another terror attack in the U.S. and they will all be leaving America. One way or the other! He will learn what happens when Americans are pushed too far.
America cannot stand to take in these terrorists anymore. A simple export will do. Like what the Greeks and the Turks did.
Islam does not breed terrorists on a sliding scale of submission to them, it breeds terrorists because it is a commandment of their scriptures to terrorise all men into submission.
Submission breeds terrorism far more than standing up like a man and fighting. You can see that in Israel and you can see that in the USA.
The twin towers did not fall in London, but in New York City, and now that America is fighing and London is submitting the busses and trains are exploding in London not New York City.
Sometimes simple observation says more than all the speculations in the world.
Southern France is now known as Northern Nigeria. Over five million Muslims own Southern France. They are not French, don’t speak French, and don’t respect France as French. They bring France new and unwanted problems as to women’s rights, aggressive and violent religion and the loss of the French language as the immigrants out-propagate the French. Speculation shows France becoming France-Arabia within this century. They will either lose their country and language, or wall off southern France to the immigrants to save themselves.
Great link, Dark Skies. I usually enjoy reading Pipe's work.
I hate that word - "victimized" - and I can't stand how easily its used by some in Islam to claim the right to attack Western values and cultures. I came across this very entertaining piece written by a blogger on this very subject:
Wednesday, June 01, 2005
"I'm A Victim"
I’m a victim, I’m told. I don’t feel like a victim. At age 50 I live in a wonderful apartment in a great neighborhood of the greatest city of the world. I’m fortunate to be married to someone special and I have a decent job working with reasonable people. But, I’ve discovered that I’m a victim. It’s not that something has happened to me. It’s something I’ve been all along – or so I was recently informed. More precisely, I’m part of a victim group: Greek-Americans. You didn’t know we were victims, either? Let me explain.
Our history goes back to … well, the invention of history itself by the Greek historian Herodotus and even before. Only back then we didn’t call ourselves Greek – that’s our Roman “slave-name” – but Hellenic. Greece (i.e. Hellas) consisted of city-states on both shores of the Aegean Sea and the Aegean islands. Greek philosophy and high culture first flourished on the eastern shore (i.e. Asia Minor) in the city of Miletus starting with the philosopher-scientist Thales. And being of the Aegean, it is not surprising that water is the essence of Thales’ hydro-centric cosmology.
The eastern shore of the Aegean was a part of Greece for over 2000 years during periods of Greek independence and as part of the Roman Empire. Turks are not indigenous to Asia Minor; they’re Steppe people – savage invaders from the east that converted to Islam. In Acts 19:10 it says that Paul preached until “all who lived in Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks.” No Turks! And the word Asia, which Plato also uses in two dialogues, refers to the land of my ancestors. Apparently even our label has been usurped by those influenced by the Palestinian terrorist and Columbia University Professor, Edward Said, who has convinced people that oriental is a bad bad word. Victimized again!
After centuries of fighting the barbarians at the gates, Greeks, running low on Greek Fire, lost the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire, Constantinople, in 1453 bringing to an end two millennia of Greek dominance. For the next 400 years Greeks lived in oppression and servitude. Indeed, this period of Greek servitude is roughly the same time period as black slavery in America. Should I be asking for reparations from the Turks? And after all that time, can anyone expect us, with our shackles newly removed, to compete in a level playing field?
Of course, Greek-Americans like Italian-Americans (actually Sicilians are really Greeks, right Chris?) are too proud to ask for affirmative action. For example, twenty years ago, the City University of New York deciding that Italian-Americans were “underrepresented”, contemplated a policy of affirmative action. When I told this to a tenured left-leaning Italian-American, he was insulted and outraged. But, what then does it mean when he vociferously advocates and defends affirmative action for blacks?
Besides, it is blatantly absurd to treat individuals on the basis of demographic similarities to people dead for hundreds of years. After all, today Turkey is the poster child of a modern and secular Islamic democracy that fully respects the rights of minorities. Wait a second! Where are the minorities? Fifty years ago Constantinople was 25% Greek and one hundred years ago both Greeks and Armenians were major sub-populations of Asia Minor.
The Greeks of Asia Minor suffered the same fate as the Jews in Arab countries. In the 1950s Muslims ethnically cleansed Jews from Arab lands and Greeks from Asia Minor. While Israel has consistently maintained a population of 20% Arabs, no Arab country could tolerate the existence of Jews and Turkey could no longer tolerate the presence of Greeks in what was for 2500 years Asian Greece.
Should we ask for the “right of return” to “occupied Greece?” After all, it was less than fifty years since Greeks were driven from their land. And what should Greeks do about the continued occupation of the Holiest location in Orthodox Christianity: the Church of Hagia Sofia? This would be the equivalent of our occupation of Mecca. This church is still desecrated with Arabic graffiti from the Koran. This is worse than showing disrespect to a holy book! Time to riot and indiscriminately kill?
I’m not the only oppressed Greek whose family hails from “occupied Greece.” There was the film director and anti-Communist Elia Kazan and the shipping magnate Aristotle Onassis. Hey, if the Oil Sheiks of Arabia can be oppressed by colonialism and Oprah is oppressed, who says you have to be poor? Victimization can afflict people of all stations in life. Right?
In any case, I’ve applied for my federal certificate of victimization as a Native Anatolian. Now I can pack my belongings, setup a refugee camp on the Turkish border, and suffer until the world loves me … or I can live my life well, laugh at the ethnic “cheeseburger jokes” on SNL and forget this whole victimization nonsense. Greek-Americans prefer the latter – and so do most people. There’s an old saying: “living well is the best revenge.” Yes, you guessed it – I’m American – and we all see ourselves as unique individuals.
http://libertyandculture.blogspot.com/2005/06/im-victim.html
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