Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays

AP Religion ^ | 9/30/2005 | RACHEL ZOLL

[NormB]

Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent. About one-third of the 42,500 U.S. priests are members of religious orders.

[AMERIKA]

snip..

What percentage of priests have a homosexual orientation?
Nobody knows, with any degree of accuracy.

Any discussion of the role of homosexual orientation in the priesthood -- in fact any discussion of clergy abuse itself -- is hampered by a lack of hard, reliable data.

Some estimates of the percentage of current priests with a homosexual orientation:

Analysis of the estimates of others: According to Amanda Ripley of Time Magazine, estimates range from 15% to 50%. 3
According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%." 4

Personal estimates: Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. He once estimated that 30% of the priesthood is homosexually oriented. 5 Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation. 6 He told the Boston Globe: "If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually oriented, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the church's operation...It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it's very much against the tradition of the church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation is not going to solve the problem."
Sister Maryanne Walsh, spokesperson for the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, said that it would it be difficult to find evidence to support these Sipe's estimates of the percentage of gay men in the priesthood. She feels that it is also irrelevant. She said: "There’s no real purpose in saying whether someone is homosexual or heterosexual. The issue is whether they can make a commitment [to chastity]." 6
Bishop Jerome Listecki is an auxiliary bishop in Chicago. He estimates that "perhaps more than 10%" of priests have a homosexual orientation." (Emphasis ours). 5
Father Donald Cozzens, an author, psychologist, and Catholic seminary president says that there is such a high percentage of gay priests in the church that he is concerned that “the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession.” 5 In his book, "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," -- published in the year 2000 -- he estimates that 50% of Roman Catholic priests have a homosexual orientation.
A NBC report on chastity and the clergy found that "anywhere from 23 percent to 58 percent" of the Catholic clergy have a homosexual orientation. 7
Author and sociologist James G. Wolfe estimated that 48.5% of priests were gay. 8

Actual surveys: In the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply: 75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;
15% homosexual;
5% bisexual. 9

During 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay. 10


Conclusion: If we assume that all of the estimates are of equal validity, then about 33% of priests have a homosexual orientation -- about one in three.

[sinkspur]

I have met many, many priests in my 43 years, and have only met one who was a homosexual and who was removed for molestation of a minor.

How could you tell none of the others was a celibate homosexual?

[twigs]

If a man is a celibate, then he is not homosexual. Homosexuality is an action. Yes, some people have stronger tendencies toward some sins than others, but it's the acting out that makes it a sin.

[ECM]

Right, they've long since given up the ghost in the US...just wondering if the "stormtroopers of the Pope" are still such elsewhere in the world.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Let's have a rational discussion on homosexuality in the Church!

Don't hold your breath. Among other things, that would require:

1) The massive number of gay priests to ask themselves honestly why the heck they want to serve in the priesthood of a church which explicitly condemns them, and

2) The Church to confront the fact that no normal heterosexual male wants to sign up for a life of celibacy, and that its choices are a) maintain the status quo and just look the other way, b) continue to require celibacy but crack down harshly on gay priests, and just suck it up as the already critically short supply of priests rapidly gets at least 25% shorter, while Catholics (and everybody else) remark on the huge exodus and the stark evidence it provides of the large percentage of the priesthood which is gay, or c) refute the pronouncements of a long string of Popes who have declared that celibacy is and always will be essential for priests, and start allowing priests to marry.

[RKV]

Actually the percentage of homosexuals (of both genders) in the general population is 2-3%. Not 10%.

[sinkspur]

I'm not Catholic, but am curious to know if the Pope has the authority to remove this defender of perversion from the Catholic priesthood?

The Pope has the authority, but he will not do it. The Pope is not going to remove anybody from the priesthood for simply questioning a non-dogmatic judgment.

[GarySpFc]

I have met many, many priests in my 43 years, and have only met one who was a homosexual and who was removed for molestation of a minor.

Here is an editorial, which appeared in The Kansas City Star just a couple of days ago defending a homosexual Jesuit. http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/columnists/mary_sanchez/12748519.htm

Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church
Sad, risky policy of exclusion
MARY SANCHEZ

My favorite priest was gay.

I never knew that when he was alive.

Few did.

Father Thom Savage died of AIDS in 1999. (Hmmmmm, that leaves little doubt as to Fr. Savage keeping his vows of celebacy.)

So this can be said about him now, without fear that new decrees from the Vatican will out him, somehow canceling his work for God.

Father Savage was the enigmatic Jesuit priest who became president of Rockhurst University in 1988, when it still was Rockhurst College.

To say Father Savage was brilliant is an understatement of massive proportions. He graduated summa cum laude, made Phi Beta Kappa and held two master’s degrees and a doctorate.

While some newcomers take years to build the social connections and clout to make an impact, Father Savage seemed to have carried the ability with his luggage from the East Coast. He simply had it. No need for cultivation.

During his eight years in Kansas City, Father Savage served on many prestigious boards and co-chaired the city’s master plan.

I met him during his first days in Kansas City. As a young reporter, writing about higher education was among my duties. At 41, Father Savage was the youngest president of any Jesuit college in the nation.

Savage’s impressive resume had been well-documented. A short feature story to add a few details was all editors wanted. I requested half an hour, 45 minutes tops, of his time. I stayed in his office for three hours.

The afternoon was the best type of interview — more a conversation than a question-and-answer session. Father Savage was gregarious, savvy and clear about his vision for Rockhurst.

Later, the topics were less about social planning and more about faith. He became less the college president, more the Jesuit priest. I was less the reporter and more the young woman still wrestling with qualms spawned in parochial grade school.

We laughed at my memories of strict nuns and playgrounds where boys were separated from girls by a yellow painted line. We talked about how as a youngster my questions about doctrine were dismissed as being too questioning.

We discussed the church’s teachings at levels I’d never heard before.

He thought my problem was not a lack of faith but more an analytical mindset that had clashed with the way I had been first instructed.

I always say that had I known Jesuits earlier in life, many of my frustrations with Catholicism would have been lessened, if not eliminated.

That is a generalization. The truth is that the Jesuit who made the difference was Father Savage.

I suspect many people have stories of how this man affected their lives, as Catholics, as city planners, as elected officials, as professors and as students.

I applaud the church for attempting to further address the horror of priests who have abused young children. But homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia.

In fact, some priests and scholars who study the church have already suggested this move may aggravate, not solve, the problem of child abuse. Their reasoning is sound.

The priests who were convicted of sexual assaults did not go though seminary in more recent years, when the church began to be more pro-active and open about dealing with the difficulties of celibacy. The priests who caused the harm were more a function of the years when the church didn’t discuss such things. The approach inadvertently formed a haven for pedophiles.

And as a Catholic, the latest news from the Vatican saddens me.

The God I pray to created all human beings. I believe he made some of them gay.

I thank him for the Rev. Thom Savage.

[The Old Hoosier]

Probably the Jesuits' Superior General could do it, and the local bishop could also bar him from preaching or saying mass in his diocese. I don't know canon law well enough to know whether the Pope can personally defrock him...

[NormB]

damn.

[Constantine XIII]

The Pope says "Tough cookies!"

[murphE]

It is time to suppress the Jesuits.

Amen.

[bkepley]

Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent

..and all of them in the U.S.

[RobbyS]

Three thousand years of sacred history speaks against homosexuality. To hell what this false priest says.

[Rocketman]

Imagine that in main line protestant churches as well methodist, anglican, prebyterian etc.

And imagine this is also coming to a fundementalist or pentecostal church near you.

[spunkets]

"If a man is a celibate, then he is not homosexual. Homosexuality is an action. "

No. Otherwise hetero sexuality is an action, a verb. They are nouns.

[murphE]

Does anyone know if the Jesuits are still worth a damn outside of the US?

Although I do not doubt that some good Jesuit priests exist, the problems in their order are not confined to the US.

[markedman]

Its nice to see the the Christian Wahabbi Sect is out in force.

[conserv13]

I think they should let priests get married. Even gay priests.

I'm not a real good Catholic : )

[Veto!]

My God, I hope that's a lie.

I would hope so too, but a few nights ago on Catholic radio (EWTN), a caller phoned in with a question about how many seminarians are gay and the priest answering questions had to admit to 25-50%. So those are the church's own figures.

I knew a couple of gay priests in San Francisco. They had no love of God and certainly none for the Church, but found their life as priests "easy." "Where else would I have so much time off?" One of the priests I knew was HIV positive--the other was his lover. Beyond words!

So the church has become an unofficial hangout for gays. Probably a successful target of those pushing the gay agenda. They need to be excised before they bring the whole thing down--which is probably their intention in the first place.

In years past, I believe that some gays became priests for the right reasons and did not have sex. This wouldn't bother me any more than a straight priest with a strong attraction to women giving it up and staying celibate. But today, the gay thing is so massively disordered and destructive that even a celibate gay priest, if any, should probably get the boot.