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Opposing lawyers share thoughts on Schiavo case
Palm Beach Daily News ^ | October 1, 2005 | Michele Dargan

Posted on 10/01/2005 6:32:54 AM PDT by topher

The only issue that David Gibbs can ever remember Jesse Jackson and Rush Limbaugh agreeing on was the fact that Terri Schiavo should remain alive.

...

Gibbs called removing Schiavo's feeding tube "barbaric and uncivilized." Florida law does not allow the starvation of animals and the constitution does not allow the starvation of convicted murderers, he said.

...

Felos said faith-based organizations, religious leaders, priests and rabbis distorted the facts in the Schiavo case.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at palmbeachdailynews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 14thamendment; attygibbs; barbarism; dehydration; eugenics; euthanasia; felos; gallagher4guv; genocide; harris4senate; hino; justice; murder; murderousmonster; righttolife; schiavo; soros; starvation; terridailies; terrinews; terrioct2005; terrischiavo; terriwasmurdered; torture
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Faith-based organizations distorted the facts all right, they said murder was murder and the God of the Judeo-Christian system of beliefs said that God told us Thou Shalt not kill!

I guess this is a distortion... In a pig's eye

1 posted on 10/01/2005 6:32:55 AM PDT by topher
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To: topher

bump for after work


2 posted on 10/01/2005 6:33:41 AM PDT by skr (Shopping for a tagline that fits or a fitting tagline...whichever I find first.)
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To: Admin Moderator
Could not find any restrictions for posting Palm Beach Daily News articles.

Are there any?

3 posted on 10/01/2005 6:34:26 AM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: topher
Felos said faith-based organizations, religious leaders, priests and rabbis distorted the facts in the Schiavo case.

There emerges a clear anti-religion bias among Felos, Michael Schiavo, and some of the others who were so rabid in their desire to attack the Schindler family's POV. Felos worships death, that seems clear. He is one nutty whack-a-doo.

4 posted on 10/01/2005 6:38:48 AM PDT by veronica ("America has been killing people on this continent since it was started." PMS/ Peace Mother Sheehan)
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To: veronica
"Felos worships death, that seems clear. He is one nutty whack-a-doo."

I can't even see Felos's name in print without gagging.

5 posted on 10/01/2005 6:45:25 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: veronica
...There emerges a clear anti-religion bias among Felos, Michael Schiavo, and some of the others who were so rabid in their desire to attack the Schindler family's POV.

Though the Schindlers have relied on their faith to pull themselves through this mess, they are reaching out to disabled people and trying to help others.

The MSM seemed to love to attack Father Frank Pavone on this issue. What I find surprising is Felos attacking Rabbis. Maybe there is some German blood or ties to Nazi Germany in Felos.

Come to think of it, Nazi Germany in the 1930s were the first to euthanize the disabled in the 1930s in mass numbers.

Maybe Lawyer George Felos gets his educations from the Super Race concept of Nazi Germany and Planned Parenthood founder Margaret Sanger. Both Nazi Germany and Planned Parenthood are prominently known in history for their Culture of Death.

6 posted on 10/01/2005 6:45:54 AM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: sageb1
I can't even see Felos's name in print without gagging.

Would it help if we refer to him as mein Fuhrer George?

7 posted on 10/01/2005 6:50:44 AM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: sageb1
I can't even see Felos's name in print without gagging.

Would it help if we refer to him as mein Fuhrer George?

8 posted on 10/01/2005 6:50:46 AM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: 8mmMauser

Terri PING


9 posted on 10/01/2005 8:55:48 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: topher

Apparently there is no restriction about posting from this paper. I tried it, by pretending to post the whole thing and hit preview. If there is a restriction, the next page would say either that we can't post from there, or that we need to excerpt it. Neither happened, so here is the article in its entirety:

=======

The only issue that David Gibbs can ever remember Jesse Jackson and Rush Limbaugh agreeing on was the fact that Terri Schiavo should remain alive.

It was one of the lighter moments Friday during a passionate talk by Gibbs, the attorney who represented Schiavo's parents in their fight to keep their brain-damaged daughter alive, and attorney George Felos, who represented Schiavo's husband in his successful effort to remove her feeding tube.

Felos said he hopes the resolution of the Schiavo case will reduce the taboo surrounding the fear of death that he feels fueled so much of the opposition. Schiavo spent 15 years in a "vegetative state" after suffering what is believed to have been a heart attack in 1990.

Gibbs and Felos appeared together for the first time since Schiavo died March 31, speaking to 130 members of the Palm Beach County Bar Association at the Marriott in West Palm Beach.

Schiavo was at the center of a prolonged legal battle between her husband and parents that drew national attention, involved the state and federal government and reached all the way to the Supreme Court. The lack of a living will pitted Schiavo's husband, Michael, and her parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, against one another in the courts.

Theodore Leopold, president of the Palm Beach County Bar Association, introduced the speakers, flipping a coin to see who would speak first. Gibbs lost the toss, and Felos elected to let Gibbs go first.

Schiavo was able to breathe on her own and to swallow but she was not able to feed herself, Gibbs said. "Because of her disability, do we allow this deprivation of what I believe should be ordinary care?"

Gibbs called removing Schiavo's feeding tube "barbaric and uncivilized." Florida law does not allow the starvation of animals and the constitution does not allow the starvation of convicted murderers, he said.

Gibbs said Schiavo's parents begged her husband to turn over her guardianship to them and they would care for her. Michael Schiavo had moved on with another woman with whom he has children.

"I don't know what Mr. Schiavo was motivated by. When you have a mother and a father begging for the life of their daughter, I don't understand where, at some point, basic human kindness doesn't kick in."

Gibbs was with Schiavo's mother the last time she saw her daughter alive.

"I watched her mother sobbing over her dying daughter," Gibbs said. "We walked out into the hallway and Mary said to me, 'David, I'm no lawyer and I'm no doctor. But I don't understand why they have to kill my little girl.' That's the troubling moral dilemma. Why, with family who wanted her, did Terri have to die this horrific death?"

"I hope and pray that Terri's legacy is while she had to die, in a sense she was a martyr to protect the rights of many people who otherwise would not have a voice," Gibbs said.

Felos said the Schiavo case reminded him of a sign he saw while bicycling through the suburbs of Boston outside a mansion belonging to a religious order. The sign said, "Trespassing absolutely will not be permitted. Violators will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law — Sisters of Perpetual Mercy."

Felos said, "There was something very disjointed to me. It seemed kind of close-hearted and brittle."

Felos said faith-based organizations, religious leaders, priests and rabbis distorted the facts in the Schiavo case.

"To me the truth is such an essential element in spiritual life," Felos said. "It's not only respected, it's sought for . . . Maybe I was feeling a little naïve, but I just expected more from priests and rabbis and religious-based organizations in their consideration of this case."

Felos said he wasn't going to spend his time trying to rebut Gibbs' comments and going over the facts of the case. The lawyers and judges in attendance already knew the facts, Felos said.

He compared the emotions on both sides of the Schiavo issue to the 2004 presidential election.

"I know very close friends, when they found out that each of them had voted for the other person, had to say to themselves, 'We better not talk about that because it might jeopardize our friendship,' " Felos said. "How deeply those divisions are in our country. I hope the considerations of the Schiavo case as it ensues will not just more deeply divide, but there's some healing to be found there."

Felos called the judges and the courts "heroes" who did their duty under great pressure and great threat. Circuit Judge George Greer, the trial judge, received numerous death threats and was forced to quit his church in the aftermath. But Felos also blamed the judicial system for dragging the case on for seven years.

"From a human point of view, no judge wants to be the last person whose name is on an order that results in a person's death," he said, "especially in a case of this scrutiny."


10 posted on 10/01/2005 9:00:00 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Thanks for posting the whole article...

I err on the side of caution... I don't want to cause the Mods any more headaches than they already have...

11 posted on 10/01/2005 1:44:40 PM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: Coleus; Salvation; fatima; Goodgirlinred; NYer; cpforlife.org

ping - full article on post 10...


12 posted on 10/01/2005 1:46:31 PM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: topher

I understand -- you can follow my process of checking out, whether something needs to be excerpted or not. The software checks it automatically.


13 posted on 10/01/2005 1:47:18 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: topher

One man has fought for a child of God's life, the other has fought for death, assuming a role that is not given by God.
Still unbelievable that this can happen in the United States.


14 posted on 10/01/2005 5:05:30 PM PDT by trustandobey (Delay 2008)
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To: topher
"Would it help if we refer to him as mein Fuhrer George?"

Another freeper made this image of Felos ahd Himmler last year. It fits Felos perfectly :-)

15 posted on 10/01/2005 7:36:38 PM PDT by amdgmary
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To: All

Courtesy of Phil Dragoo

16 posted on 10/01/2005 7:39:01 PM PDT by amdgmary
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To: floriduh voter

Letter from Terri's family. Bears re-posting

September 29, 2005

It’s hard to believe that it has been six months since Terri’s tragic death. At this juncture, my family and I want to take this opportunity to thank you, from the bottom of our hearts, for all of the support that you provided in trying to save Terri’s life. This was so meaningful to my wife, Mary, my son Bobby, my daughter Suzanne and in particular, to Terri.

Watching someone being starved and dehydrated to death, let alone your own daughter, is something so cruel that it can never be forgotten. Terri’s dying face was skeletal. Her skin was blotchy, parched and peeling. Terri’s lips and tongue were cracked and dry. Witnessing her life ebbing away as she desperately struggled for a breath of air is beyond the realm of human comprehension. Yet, the euthanasia death merchants, who were responsible for inflicting Terri’s suffering, had the audacity to say she died a peaceful death with dignity.

No, we will never forget the agonizing starvation death Terri suffered. Nor will we ever rest until each and every one of the perpetrators who orchestrated Terri’s death is brought to justice for their crime against humanity.

Over the past six months we have been conditioning ourselves to adjust our lives without Terri. Although Terri is no longer with us, her legacy will live on. We are comforted knowing Terri will be instrumental in saving the lives of the vulnerable, who are in jeopardy of becoming innocent victims as Terri was herself. As a family, we have vowed to do everything within our power to prevent anyone from ever experiencing the same tragedy that Terri endured.

To successfully accomplish our mission, we again will be asking for your help. Soon, you will see the dramatic change we are in the process of making to Terri’s web site. The revised web site incorporates information which will outline our objectives in more detail.

We welcome you to join us and support us in our efforts to restore society’s declining value of a “human life.” We may have lost the battle to save Terri’s life, but we have absolutely no intentions of losing the war against euthanasia.

www.terrisfight.org


17 posted on 10/03/2005 6:09:50 AM PDT by amdgmary (Please visit www.terrisfight.org and www.northcountrygazette.org)
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To: amdgmary; 8mmMauser
I say we start Terri's October Daily Thread on this spot. I'll put jpegs from 2003's Vigil on this thread. It's been two years since our leaders right by Terri. They changed for political purposes against their own base, but we haven't changed.

Thou Shalt Not Kill.

18 posted on 10/03/2005 5:46:09 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: floriduh voter

You got it. I will get busy.

8mm


19 posted on 10/03/2005 5:53:15 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: 8mmMauser
I'll get some Gibbs jpegs over here on Wednesday. Tomorrow I'm tied up all day.

I was on the Miers' thread different times of the day. I think she's going to be a swing vote on the Supremes.

20 posted on 10/03/2005 6:00:34 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; presently no screen name; Abby4116; Alissa; ..
This is the new Terri October Dailies thread, the contrast of attorneys for and against Terri.


21 posted on 10/03/2005 6:03:38 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: russesjunjee

22 posted on 10/03/2005 6:06:18 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: floriduh voter

I mentioned some time back the first vacancy was not my worry, since I figured it would pacify us, but worried about the second one more. Now we will see soon enough.


23 posted on 10/03/2005 6:06:46 PM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: 8mmMauser

24 posted on 10/03/2005 6:09:50 PM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: 8mmMauser

Back when Judge Whittemore signed Terri's death warrant, I just gave it a quick read. I came across it again today, and read it a little more carefully. I don't have the time to join in an in-depth discussion, but I thought some others might be interested in seeing how he twisted the circumstances and the law to justify his agenda.

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/32205fjord.pdf


25 posted on 10/03/2005 6:14:51 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: floriduh voter

Oh, I love that photo of Terri and her Mom. Thanks for posting it.


26 posted on 10/03/2005 6:15:42 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: All

"This person suffering from hereditary
defects costs the people 60,000
Reichmarks during his lifetime. People,
that is your money. Read 'New People'."

27 posted on 10/03/2005 6:21:30 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: topher

"Felos said faith-based organizations, religious leaders, priests and rabbis distorted the facts in the Schiavo case."

Wow!! All those people are lying, but he is not. (sarcasm)


28 posted on 10/03/2005 7:14:47 PM PDT by Sun (Hillary Clinton is pro-ILLEGAL immigration. Don't let her fool you. She has a D- /F immigr. rating.)
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To: Sun
Your post made my day... I never thought of it that (honestly).

I guess the Sun shone forth on that on...

29 posted on 10/03/2005 8:15:58 PM PDT by topher (Please let Old-Fashioned moral values return to the United States!)
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To: pickyourpoison

bttt


30 posted on 10/03/2005 10:19:49 PM PDT by pickyourpoison (" Laus Deo ")
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To: sageb1
"I can't even see Felos's name in print without gagging."

I deal with the revulsion by thinking of the word "felos" as a cussword.

As in, "that's a load of horse-felos".
31 posted on 10/04/2005 2:10:38 AM PDT by Wampus SC (Serf City here we come!)
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To: 8mmMauser

And here we all are.... Thanks for the ping.


32 posted on 10/04/2005 2:13:10 AM PDT by Wampus SC (Serf City here we come!)
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To: Sun
"Felos said faith-based organizations, religious leaders, priests and rabbis distorted the facts in the Schiavo case."

Felos has always seemed to have a big problem with anything or anyone religious, imo.

Maybe that's why there's that old saying I seem to remember hearing somewhere---
"When People Pray Felos Freaks"
33 posted on 10/04/2005 2:19:22 AM PDT by Wampus SC (Serf City here we come!)
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To: Wampus SC
My brother who was visiting earlier is quite knowledgeable on the Bible and reminded me that on many occasions as if by celestial humor or by warning to those who can hear, the names may reflect bad behavior. Hence a person who is a fool may have a name root as fool. I don't know if I could find the examples again as easily as he did but he found several amazing examples in the Old Testament.

Remember the root of his name, felos de se. No matter how it is cut, Felo is a root for evildoer. Here is a legal definition of felo de se.

A felon of himself; a self-murderer. To be guilty of this offence, the deceased must have had the will and intention of committing it, or else he committed no crime. As he is beyond the reach of human laws, he cannot be punished. English law used to inflict a punishment by a barbarous burial of his body, and by forfeiting to the king the property which he owned and which would belong to his relations. The charter of privileges granted by William Penn to the inhabitants of Pennsylvania contains the following clause: 'If any person, through temptation or melancholy, shall destroy himself, his estate, real and personal, shall notwithstanding, descend to his wife and children, or relations, as if he had died a natural death.

Another: "Felo-de-se" is a Latin phrase meaning "evildoer upon himself," or, simply, a suicide. In England before 1870 a distinction was made between a suicide, which was the name given to an act of self-destruction committed by a person of unsound mind, and a felo-de-se, which was committed somebody who was sane. If a self-destruction was judged a felo-de-se, the deceased's estate was generally forfeited to the crown.

34 posted on 10/04/2005 3:57:38 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: 8mmMauser
Hence a person who is a fool may have a name root as fool.

Nabal

35 posted on 10/04/2005 4:05:41 AM PDT by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: Ohioan from Florida; Goodgirlinred; Miss Behave; cyn; presently no screen name; Abby4116; Alissa; ..
October dawns with the Terri Legacy churning.

The Execution of Terri Schiavo

by David M. Huntwork

"The essence of civilization is that the strong have a duty to protect the weak. In cases where there are serious doubts and questions, the presumption should be in the favor of life."

"I urge all those who honor Terri Schiavo to continue to work to build a culture of life where all Americans are welcomed and valued and protected, especially those who live at the mercy of others.”

– President George Bush

The crime is complete, the deed is done, and the long battle is over. Terri Schiavo is dead.

The Execution


36 posted on 10/04/2005 4:10:25 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: The Red Zone

Thank you.

Now I an able to locate that one, in 1 Samuel 25 Let not my lord the king, I pray thee, regard this naughty man, Nabal: for according to his name, he is a fool, and folly is with him: but I, thy handmaid, did not see thy servants, my lord, whom thou sentest.


37 posted on 10/04/2005 4:15:59 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: All
TheRealityCheck.org has more articles of similar interest today. In addition to these are twenty four more articles regarding Terri Schiavo on their website.

Turning Christianity into a Hobby

The Return of the Angry White Male

Impeach all Judges in the Terri Schiavo Case

Scratch Another Republican off the 2008 List

38 posted on 10/04/2005 4:43:47 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (ChristtheKingMaine.com)
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To: 8mmMauser
Felos is full of all that is corrupt. Out of his mouth leaps the lizards and maggots of a diseased and spiritless mind.

I know that revenge is our Father's.

And I also know that through his beloved children our Father works His marvelous will.

Even as Gibbs and Felos presented their views before this Bar organization, Terri's spirit was and is tucked safely in with our Father, far from the cruel touch of michael 'the monster' and felos ' the death merchant'.

They will never be able to defend their actions, and they know this.

They murdered a precious human being because they could.

Now we will keep the truth of their horrific, brutal, heinous drive to kill this woman alive, because we can.

None of us will hopefully ever know what it is like to have a healthy but brain damaged child killed like they decided to kill Terri, not with a swift stroke, but with a brutal and painful withdrawal of life giving water and food.

These animals are just beginning a walk I do not envy. For the path they have chosen is dark, cold and directed by evil.

The name felos, the name schiavo, the name greer, the name king, the name of every person who used their authority to murder Terri will not be forgotten and will be held up to the light of truth for the rest of their lives. As it should be.

39 posted on 10/04/2005 4:44:59 AM PDT by Republic (Michael Schiavo LIED about having a college degree on his guardianship application,)
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To: 8mmMauser
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/

Chock full of related news today's date.

Crist has big campaign war chest. Florida is doomed.

40 posted on 10/04/2005 5:51:15 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: floriduh voter
Ahhh, great minds and all that......

This one I can't resist...

Schiavo Attorney Felos To Lead Right-To-Die Cruise

And his clients are dying to join the cruise.

What has Felos de se about that?

8mm

41 posted on 10/04/2005 6:04:39 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jesu ufam Tobie..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/articles/100305MarkAdams.html

Florida Judge Denies Judicial Whistleblower Due Process----Again

There's an epidemic spreading like wildfire across the country. Challenge the judicial system and the system will retaliate.

"If you attack the integrity of judges or officers of the court, they come after you", Tampa attorney Mark A. Adams says.

42 posted on 10/04/2005 6:06:05 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: BykrBayb
From www.northcountrygazette.org

Bobby Schindler, Brother Paul Annual PLAM Banquet Speakers

The banquet will be held Monday, Oct. 24 from 6 to 9 p.m. at the Touchstone Energy Place Convention Center at RiverCentre in St. Paul.

www.plam.org/News/banquetmsp.pdf

Bobby Schindler going to Minneapolis-St. Paul for a Pro Life Banquet. He's a great speaker, unlike HINO THE RINO.

43 posted on 10/04/2005 6:10:39 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: floriduh voter

I think we can safely agree with Mark Adams.


44 posted on 10/04/2005 6:11:29 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jesu ufam Tobie..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: floriduh voter

What an amazing family the Schindlers are. Bobby is a great speaker, Suzanne is a great rep, father Bob and Terri's mother Mary are a poster family for how good Christians should live.

God bless the Schindlers.

8mm


45 posted on 10/04/2005 6:15:40 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jesu ufam Tobie..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: 8mmMauser
If my wife was in such a state I would allow physical therapy. I would want her to go outside in the sunshine and to receive friends and flowers. I would want her to have her teeth cleaned and life threatening infections treated. I would allow ‘pet therapy’ and for the blinds to be opened in her room. Even if she had told me she wanted no exceptional medical measures taken, I would make sure her existence while she was still alive was as pleasant and comfortable as possible. Common sense and natural compassion call for such simple measures yet these were the things that Michael denied Terri for many years.

How can anyone disagree with those sentiments? And yet, some do.

46 posted on 10/04/2005 6:29:01 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: 8mmMauser
A Cruise to Die For

(ship's registry may be in a euro-euthanasia port).

Last night I caught Joe Scarborough. He is doing a thorough investigation of the deaths after Katrina. They have found many dead mostly in hospitals and nursing homes. Joe boldly brought up the real prospect that many in assisted living or hospitals were EUTHANIZED before Katrina hit.

Those who say we should move on are so incorrect. Euthanasia is illegal in the United States but was caught red handed in NOLA.

Joe Scarborough was appalled. He'll stay on this breaking story.

47 posted on 10/04/2005 6:32:38 AM PDT by floriduh voter (www.conservative-spirit.org Daily Newsfeeds & Weekly Update)
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To: Wampus SC
"When People Pray Felos Freaks"

Where have I seen that before?


48 posted on 10/04/2005 6:53:56 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: BykrBayb

Some are evil purely and some are drawn to evil. When presented a choice between good and evil, they default for the evil perspective.

Doing that their blinders shelter them from the obvious as you quote. Simple charity and kindness escapes them as beyond comprehension.

I bet many of those would show more and similar charity to the family pet where someone like Terri would be in their blind spot.

8mm


49 posted on 10/04/2005 6:56:08 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jesu ufam Tobie..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: BykrBayb

"When People Pray Felos Freaks"

Uhhh, lemme guess... Wild Partridge? CP?

Getting close?


50 posted on 10/04/2005 7:06:42 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jesu ufam Tobie..Jesus I trust in Thee)
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