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Coast to Coast AM: Supermarket "loyalty" cards and how they track you, RFIDs
Coast to Coast AM ^ | 10/1/05 | me

Posted on 10/01/2005 9:58:55 PM PDT by BurbankKarl

Katherine Albrecht, founder of CASPIAN, a consumer group fighting against supermarket 'loyalty' cards, will join Liz McIntyre to share an update on Radio Frequency Identification products (RFID). Related site:


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bigbrother; nocard; privacy; rfid
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1 posted on 10/01/2005 9:58:55 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: BurbankKarl


The evil Kroeger's card?


2 posted on 10/01/2005 10:01:17 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: Momaw Nadon; Perdogg; Podkayne; grizzfan; Lori675; dennisw; JennysCool; lainie; bd476; ...

Coast to Coast Ping


3 posted on 10/01/2005 10:07:39 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: onyx

Yes...you must buy two gallons of ice cream instead of one.


4 posted on 10/01/2005 10:08:11 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: BurbankKarl

http://www.nocards.org/

http://www.spychips.com/


5 posted on 10/01/2005 10:08:42 PM PDT by endthematrix (JOHN ROBERTS vs JOE BIDEN ................... ROBERTS wins TKO in second round!)
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To: onyx; BurbankKarl

Let me see. I have a CVS card, Wegman's Card, Giant Card, Dick's Sporting Good's card,....


6 posted on 10/01/2005 10:08:49 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: BurbankKarl; onyx

This type of data (along with a thousand more, crunched in supercomputers) is at the heart of "Able Danger" type data-mining operations.

Used to locate foreign terrorists, it's a great tool.

The downside potential to someday be misused to locate "enemies of the state" is very real.

"Dept of Pre-Crime" territory.


7 posted on 10/01/2005 10:10:34 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: BurbankKarl

LOL!!!! I always do -- 2 for $6 instead of $3.99 each....lol.


8 posted on 10/01/2005 10:11:17 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: Travis McGee


I hadn't thought of that!
You're GOOD.


9 posted on 10/01/2005 10:12:24 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: Perdogg; BurbankKarl


I don;t have any of the cards... husband does the shopping...lol.


10 posted on 10/01/2005 10:13:18 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: BurbankKarl

My card at the grocery store was submitted under the name of George Allen. :p


11 posted on 10/01/2005 10:14:29 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: BurbankKarl

The discounts are an incentive to use the card. Example: Twelve-pack of Bud= 13.99, but with the card, 8.99. Why they'd 'track' you may create disincentives. But what are they?


12 posted on 10/01/2005 10:18:33 PM PDT by budwiesest (I've witnessed the federalization of America. My State: historical skidmark.)
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To: onyx

I covered this in EFAD. The bad guys used the same "predictive programs" used to locate foreign terrorists, to locate potential domestic terrorists, by altering the parameters.


13 posted on 10/01/2005 10:19:17 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

I don't remember that and I read EFAD!!!!


14 posted on 10/01/2005 10:20:43 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: budwiesest; onyx

(This is how I described it in my novel. This part was written by 2002, when Able Danger was still a big secret.)

“Okay, well, this is pretty sensitive stuff,” began Silvari. “Not the theory, but what we’re going to do with it. This is not to leave this room, okay? The fact is we’re already making our next lists from our own predictive programs.

“These were originally dreamed up on Madison Avenue to tell advertisers what people wanted, before they even know it. It works so well, it’s almost scary! Computers mine all of the data bases you can imagine, and then some. They check your credit card purchases back for years, they see where you’ve lived and where you go on vacation, the kind of car you buy, the food you eat, ten thousand things that add up to ‘you’. Then they compare that ‘you’ to everybody else, and then they see what folks like ‘you’ just bought.

“Did you ever call a catalog company to make an order, and at the end they ask if you want to hear their list of ‘specials’? Their computer just cranked out the list of specials it thinks you’ll want. Before data mining and predictive programs, they used to average about a ten percent hit-rate on the ‘specials’. Now they get over 80% sales! Think about it; the computer can guess what you’ll want to buy next, 80% of the time!

“Everybody who found out about this got very excited, as you can imagine. CIA, FBI, NSA, everybody. Then after 9-11, there was a big push to use the predictive programs for catching Muslim terrorists, to find the sleepers by their credit cards, their movements, memberships, phone usage patterns, everything. “Brilliant” data mining at its finest: that’s the essence of the “Terrorist Information Awareness” program. And let me tell you, it works. They get a lot of false hits, but they catch a lot of bad guys with it too. A lot of them, more than are ever reported in the media.”

“Anyway, Malvone got access to some of the predictive program algorithms, and my number one computer geek Charles changed the parameters. Now we can tap into the TIA program and use it for finding our own home-grown terrorists, based on the ones we’ve already busted and jailed over the years. The program looks at the vehicles they drive, the magazines they read, the websites they surf…and of course their credit cards. With gun nuts that’s especially useful, because they buy so much from catalogs and on the internet. I mean, if somebody ordered five thousand rounds of AK-47 ammo in 1999, it’s pretty obvious what kind of weapons he has!

“So we’ll just aim our own version of the predictive program at a zip code or a town, and it’ll spit out the most dangerous right wing nut jobs. It’ll bird-dog the next Shiffletts or McVeighs, the ones who are really out on the edge.

“So that’s where our next list of targets is going to come from: from our own in-house predictive programs. And since we’re not in the business of building court cases, it doesn’t really matter if they’ve tech- nically broken the law yet or not. And anyway, with these gun nuts, you can always find something! You know, a gun they bought in one juris- diction that they failed to register properly when they moved somewhere else, or a barrel that’s too long or too short…

“And no matter what happens to the guy, you can always make it a ‘gun accident’ or a ‘premature bomb’, and there’ll be enough incrim- inating evidence in his house to make it fly in the press. So that part’s easy. But if by some miracle a guy on the list actually turns out to be squeaky clean, well, we still have the militia ‘drop guns’ that Malvone gave us, just in case...”

The STU Team leaders were silent, absorbing the meaning of what they’d just heard. The cutting-edge STU Team was going to smoke out the most dangerous gun nuts and Constitution fanatics using an ad- vanced computer program, and the TIA data bases. This was just about as “proactive” as it could get! No more waiting around until after the bomb went off, or the politician was assassinated.

“Way cool,” said Hollywood Tim Jaeger.

“I like it. I really like it,” said Michael Shanks.


15 posted on 10/01/2005 10:24:30 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: BurbankKarl

I'll bet this topic would really do well at the DU. They really hate nasty capitalistic practices over there.


16 posted on 10/01/2005 10:24:30 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Lt. Gen. Russel Honore to MSM: "You are stuck on stupid. Over.")
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To: BurbankKarl

I think the fear is that the stores will sell the data to insurance companies who will see you buying alcohol, fatty foods, etc. and set your premiums accordingly. But, of course, insurance companies would never stoop that low. </sarc>


17 posted on 10/01/2005 10:24:57 PM PDT by fat city ("The nation that controls magnetism controls the world.")
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To: BurbankKarl

Where is the tinfoil hat alert on this sh***??


18 posted on 10/01/2005 10:25:19 PM PDT by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Jeff Gordon

Why dont you listen a while...see that Debit card matched to your grocery card matched to your insurance info.


19 posted on 10/01/2005 10:28:44 PM PDT by BurbankKarl
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To: Travis McGee

NOW I remember the part about the catalogue orders... I just couldn't relate it to supermarkets and their cards.


20 posted on 10/01/2005 10:30:14 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: KoRn
My card at the grocery store was submitted under the name of George Allen.

Other names to use...

Peter Dangles

Dick Swinger

Clint Torres

Ima Fibbin

Agnes Morehead

21 posted on 10/01/2005 10:30:36 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Travis McGee
I mean, if somebody ordered five thousand rounds of AK-47 ammo in 1999, it’s pretty obvious what kind of weapons he has!

7.62x39... works in SKS rifles...

22 posted on 10/01/2005 10:33:59 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: kublia khan
Where is the tinfoil hat alert on this sh***??

"Able Danger" ring a tiny little bell?

It will work just as well (someday) to ferret out suspected "domestic enemies" as it did with Able Danger to ferret out Atta and company.

All from open source materials....like these.

The essense is that the million computer searchable factoids about you, when crunched, will inexorably take the govt into "predicted behaviour" territory. No need to wait for the crime, they will already "know" who their enemies are.

These food cards just make it even easier for tomorrow's potential Big Sister. Nothing crunches out your personality profile like what you decide to put in your shopping cart, year after year.

(Along with your phone records, credit card purchases, online habits, magazine subscriptions, etc etc etc.)

23 posted on 10/01/2005 10:34:07 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

And dozens more. All of them would worry Big Sister.


24 posted on 10/01/2005 10:35:03 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

If it truely deserves a deeper look it should be aired on a more credible venue than Coast to gost


25 posted on 10/01/2005 10:45:02 PM PDT by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: BurbankKarl
I once bought a combination of antacids, something like Alka-Seltzer and Tums together. I got instant
coupons for competitors' products, along with a warning that I should consider seeing a doctor.

So, tie that in with the shopping card in today's environment, and I'd be getting junk mail from yet
more competitors, offers to place classified ads in "certain" papers, a Surgeons General pdf on "heartburn", a
state health office notice, solicitations to participate in various gastro studies, a notice from my heath provider
about an increase in premiums, a notice from the DMV reminding me about organ donation, spam about some
other organ offer ....

26 posted on 10/01/2005 10:49:18 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: kublia khan

Sure, coast to coast is a joke. But sometimes they put on folks the MSM won't touch, for whatever reason. Read my little snippet above to see how Able Danger worked, and why it could just as easily be used to locate "dangerous gun nuts and Constitution fanatics" (or any other brand of "domestic enemies") by some future Big Sister.


27 posted on 10/01/2005 10:49:59 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Calvin Locke; Ancesthntr; archy; Badray; B4Ranch; Blood of Tyrants; CodeToad; coloradan; ...

It's much more dangerous than just that nuisance factor, if you run this forward a few years, and put the tools into the hands of Big Sister.


28 posted on 10/01/2005 10:51:39 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

I can certainly see the potential for abuse


29 posted on 10/01/2005 10:52:51 PM PDT by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Travis McGee

So if I have a perchant for salty, tasty fried snackfoods, Big Brother will know? Creepy!


30 posted on 10/01/2005 10:53:28 PM PDT by 50sDad (Star Trek Tri-D Chess: http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~abartmes/tactical.htm)
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To: 50sDad

What if Big Brother is your insurance company who decides to raise your premiums based on eating habits?

The info about your eating habits now becomes a commodity that the store can sell to other businesses or to firms who will crunch the data. Fer instance, it's a little creepy when a woman receives a direct mail ad or free sample for a new feminine hygiene product right around that time of the month...


31 posted on 10/01/2005 10:56:01 PM PDT by durasell
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To: 50sDad

I assume you're just being sarcastic, in an ironic sort of way. I'm sure you're bright enough to grasp the concept behind Able Danger, for example, which led to Atta via open source info like......the food he ate.

Of course, if you really just don't get the concept, reread the thread slowly.


32 posted on 10/01/2005 11:00:34 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

I verbally slap checkout clerks and other register-jockeys when they ask to have my phone number or other personal information for a cash-for-product transaction (which is about all I do, nowadays)

clerk: that'll be $37.86. your phone number, please?
me: why do you want my phone number?
clerk: for our records...
me: why would you believe I would want you to keep records of what I buy when and where?
clerk: but... but... deals... tracking... offers...
me: no. not what I want. not your concern. this is cash. complete the transaction. give me my change. thank you. good day.


33 posted on 10/01/2005 11:02:55 PM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: BurbankKarl; All
The Story of Bob Rivera
34 posted on 10/01/2005 11:04:04 PM PDT by lainie
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To: durasell

The potential here is orders of magnitude beyond corporations sharing personal info, say, on your salty food habits or preference in feminine hygiene products. I could care less about that stuff (unless maybe my insurance was cancelled).


The misuse potential lies in the aggragate personality profile taken of you, when millions of factoids about you are crunched in supercomputers (very cheap today).
You've heard of Able Danger, and how "open source" data and supercomputers were used to find Atta and friends.

This methodology can also be turned around and aimed inward at pesky citizens.

"Predictive programs." Might not mean Jack to you today, but it will in a few years.


35 posted on 10/01/2005 11:08:56 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

Truthfully, I don't mind the gubmint sifting through data looking for bad guys. I do mind having my personal information turned into a commodity.

We're not too far away from the day when Joe Smith will receive personalized envelope in the mail that reads:

GOOD NEWS FOR IMPOTENT MEN WITH GENITAL WARTS!
Details Inside!


36 posted on 10/01/2005 11:12:14 PM PDT by durasell
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To: King Prout

The clerk could care less, it means nothing to him. T

But the accumulation of personal info will be a goldmine for Big Sister, when she wants to locate potential domestic troublemakers, "Able Danger" style.

It sounds so banal, so ho-hum. Who cares what toothpaste you use, or what spices you prefer?

Yet that is EXACTLY how Able Danger led to Atta and company.

And it is EXACTLY the information (multipled by millions) which will allow Big Sister to sift out the potential "problem children" from among the proles.


37 posted on 10/01/2005 11:14:16 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: durasell

I'm glad the govt was able to use this stuff to find Atta. Too bad the info was not used, in time to stop 9-11.

But the point remains, this sword can easily be pointed inward at us, and not only at foreign enemies.


38 posted on 10/01/2005 11:15:56 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

Thanks Travis. I've probably got enough purchases to get spit out in a data search. At least they'll know I'm hetero.


39 posted on 10/01/2005 11:19:19 PM PDT by budwiesest (I've witnessed the federalization of America. My State: historical skidmark.)
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To: Travis McGee

Potential misuse of data by the gov't can be dealt with via laws. I'm not so sure what laws cover private corporations and data, particularly if that data is processed, stored, etc. overseas at some off-shored facility. Remember, once data becomes a commodity it can be purchased by anyone off the street or around the world.


40 posted on 10/01/2005 11:19:47 PM PDT by durasell
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Dick Swinger Clint Torres Ima Fibbin Agnes Morehead

You left out: Dixie Normus

41 posted on 10/01/2005 11:20:34 PM PDT by budwiesest (I've witnessed the federalization of America. My State: historical skidmark.)
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To: durasell
GOOD NEWS FOR IMPOTENT MEN WITH GENITAL WARTS! Details Inside!

A friend of mine received a letter from a friend of his(creative) who put "Confidential Herpes Test Results" and had a yes or no box on the outside (where 'yes' was checked). This was a brown envelope and professionally done too. LMAO!

42 posted on 10/01/2005 11:26:30 PM PDT by budwiesest (I've witnessed the federalization of America. My State: historical skidmark.)
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To: budwiesest

A friend of mine broke up with an ad agency art director chick who concocted all manner of such letters and packages. He lived in one of those apartments where the concierge holds your mail and it cost him no end of grief in the building.


43 posted on 10/01/2005 11:29:08 PM PDT by durasell
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To: Perdogg
safeway, Fred Meyer, Albertsons.......and a Wegman's and a Price chopper even though I don't live in the area where those last two are .....

you have to use all of them except Freddie's if you want the discount price, and at Wegman's that is a big differance....

44 posted on 10/01/2005 11:29:46 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Travis McGee

I pay cash and will continue to do so as long as it is accepted.... Then I'll try to barter through other people when cash is no longer accepted....

Never signed up for a store discount card, never will. Not because I try to hide what I buy, but because it is none of their dang business. I can't remember ever buying any product because of directed advertising or "push" marketing.... Other than seeing a commercial for a food product and saying "Hey, that looks good." In fact, I generally run away from anything that is "push marketed", and never bought anything that is offered via telemarketing or "snail mail.":.

I reckon they can track me through my IP on the net, Especially since I have broadband; and they can track my online purchases...

I suppose if Hillary gets elected, they will be going after FReepers... So I'm screwed anyway, even though I AM a generaly peaceful, America loving person no matter who is in the White House..

When I am asked for my telephone number or zip code, I lie. None of their dang business. If I want what they are selling, I'LL initiate the contact.

About the only exceptions are that if Jessica Alba or Alyssa Milano or Nikki Cox ever ask me for my phone number, I'll give them the right one ;-)


45 posted on 10/01/2005 11:30:33 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: LegendHasIt

What's "push marketing?"


46 posted on 10/01/2005 11:32:06 PM PDT by durasell
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To: LegendHasIt

I have already maxed out the goobermint's thread matrix ten times over. So what the hell, why worry at this point? I proudly swipe my Von's card, and get the 2 for 1 deals. When TSHTF, I'm already gone, one way or the other.


47 posted on 10/01/2005 11:34:01 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

Whooops, I meant THREAT matrix.


48 posted on 10/01/2005 11:35:09 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: durasell
broke up with an ad agency art director chick who concocted all manner of such letters and packages.

Just imagine what SHE had in her arsenal. Ouch! LOL!

49 posted on 10/01/2005 11:35:22 PM PDT by budwiesest (I've witnessed the federalization of America. My State: historical skidmark.)
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To: budwiesest

Without going into too much detail, imagine the aging prissy president of a very stuffy co-op board looking at a direct mail solicitation on a postcard for Thai sex tours or official looking correspondence for drug re-hab clinics.


50 posted on 10/01/2005 11:39:10 PM PDT by durasell
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