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Gun foes warn Florida tourists about new law
The Globe and Mail (Canada) ^ | Oct 4, 2005 | By CURT ANDERSON

Posted on 10/04/2005 4:33:31 PM PDT by proud_yank

Gun foes warn Florida tourists about new law

By CURT ANDERSON

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 Posted at 8:30 AM EDT

Associated Press

Miami — Clark Ramm sees shades of the Wild West in Florida's new law giving greater legal protections to people who shoot or use other deadly force when threatened or attacked.

"It seems like everybody ought to be packing a piece," said Mr. Ramm, a visitor from Ukiah, Calif., who found out about the law Monday from a gun-control group handing out leaflets at Miami International Airport. "I don't know if that's the right thing to do."

The leaflets begin with the words "An Important Notice to Florida Visitors" in bold red type by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

"Do not argue unnecessarily with local people," it says. "If someone appears to be angry with you, maintain to the best of your ability a positive attitude, and do not shout or make threatening gestures."

Florida's "stand your ground" law, which took effect Saturday, means that people no longer must attempt to retreat or defuse a threatening situation before using violence in order to later claim they were acting in self-defence. People already had that right in their homes, but the law now allows them to meet "force with force" in any place they have a legal right to be.

The right does not apply if the person is confronted by a law-enforcement officer.

Proponents of the measure, pushed by the National Rifle Association, say it will make Florida a safer place, not more dangerous.

Governor Jeb Bush has repeatedly pointed to a 34-year low in state crime statistics to demonstrate that Florida is not a haven for violence.

"It's pure, unadulterated politics," Mr. Bush said last week of the Brady Campaign's tactics. "Shame on them."

The Florida tourism industry, however, is taking the campaign seriously, with Visit Florida — the state's official tourism-marketing arm — issuing a statement calling Florida "a very safe and secure destination that excels in caring for its visitors."

"We believe that Americans and international visitors are smart enough to understand that the Brady Campaign is one group's political agenda and not a real safety issue," the statement said.

Florida greets more than one million visitors on any given day, with nearly 80 million tourists visiting the state in 2004, Visit Florida said.

The Brady Campaign leaflets, which the group intends to hand out for about a month at the Miami and Orlando airports, call the measure the "Shoot First" law and urge people to "take sensible precautions" while visiting the state.

"There is no other state in the nation — and no other civilized nation on Earth — that has a law like this," Brady Campaign spokesman Peter Hamm said. "It could cause the most aggressive people in society to overreact."

The group also has taken out ads in major Detroit, Chicago, Boston and London newspapers about the new Florida law.

Several people who got the leaflets at the Miami airport on Monday appeared taken aback by the new law.

"It's a little scary," said Melissa Vosberg, on her way home to the Chicago area after a cruise in the Bahamas. "It's 'shoot first, ask about it later."' Latest Comments in the Conversation

Editor's Note: Globeandmail.com editors read and approve each comment. Comments are checked for content only, spelling and grammar errors are not corrected and comments that include vulgar language or libelous content are rejected. Frederick Bardega from Montreal, Canada writes:

Dear Rikki Bharadwaj (from Toronto),

Nice try.

Posted Oct. 4, 2005 at 5:35 PM EDT Link to Comment Frederick Bardega from Montreal, Canada writes:

Dear Mr. Jason Mansell (from Vancouver),

I do not concur. Posted Oct. 4, 2005 at 5:37 PM EDT Link to Comment PAULA BONACCI from Toronto, Canada writes: Next time I'm in Florida I'll be careful to not cut any one off!!Thanks for the warning!

Posted Oct. 4, 2005 at 5:40 PM EDT Link to Comment Meredith Nachman from New York, United States writes:

Andrew Iacobelli's comment (# 99) is incomplete.In order to have the defense of self-defense you must try to retreat, but only so long as it is safe to do so.You never had to risk your own life.The new law just makes it unnecessary even to evaluate the option.

The general America-bashing in the comments on this article is annoying.The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence is an American organization.And all you have to do is read the comments above to see that your own country also has a not insignificant number of wackjobs.Can we please not lump everyone together?

As for comment #17, Noah Klar, the "right to bear arms" is what we have in the United States.The "right to bare arms" is what women don't have in coutries governed by repressive fundamentalist ideologues.But according to the women in Saudi Arabia, that's how they like it.

Posted Oct. 4, 2005 at 5:49 PM EDT Link to Comment Chris McLeod from Edmonton, Canada writes:

There have been several comments on here using the saying "a society that can protect itseft, is a safe society" or some derivative of that saying. One must ask against whom are we trying to protect ourselves and what is the best way of doing that?

Is a gun on the hip of every person necessary to protect society? Or do we need to eliminate guns and all hold hands? There is much opinion on each side but we need to ask ourselves how do we create a civilized society. We are not living in the wild west or on some new frontier where we are threaten by the people form whom we are stealing their land. We have to move forward and learn how to deal with problems in a civil manner instead of in a forceful manner. Crime is not something that will be eliminated by people carrying guns as criminals will still commit crimes. Now if a criminal committing a crime feels threatened and there is now a greater chance that the victim wil be armed, they will simply be more willing to shoot the victim off hand.

The united states has the highest rate of deaths by guns in the world. A gun makes killing someone much easier than stabing them, strangling them, or killing them by other means.

An ordinary citizen should have no reason to need a gun when living in a civilized society. Hopefully we can eliminate gun ownership in the future including for recreational purposes (why give yourself such an overwhelming advantage over the animal anyway, are you not skilled enough to kill it in a more primitive way?).

We should be spending the money spent on guns on art, literature, science and other things that would advance our society instead of stagnate it.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: crime; firearms; florida; gunfreeparadise; guns; secondammendment
"Do not argue unnecessarily with local people," it says. "If someone appears to be angry with you, maintain to the best of your ability a positive attitude, and do not shout or make threatening gestures."


Need we say more, an armed society is a polite society!!

I personally like the last comment the best. Numskull.

1 posted on 10/04/2005 4:33:33 PM PDT by proud_yank
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To: proud_yank
Already posted here.
2 posted on 10/04/2005 4:34:47 PM PDT by TomServo ("Aunt Bea- after dark.")
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To: proud_yank

If the tourists are criminals -- maybe they should just stay in Detroit.


3 posted on 10/04/2005 4:35:23 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: BenLurkin

The Brady Bunchs' time would be better spent informing Florida car-jackers that their behaviour will no longer be tolerated.


4 posted on 10/04/2005 4:42:16 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Carry Daily, Apply Sparingly.)
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To: proud_yank
The Brady gun banners are DU-espicable. All that Florida's new law does is to extend the "Castle Is Your Home" provision to your car or any other place you have a right to be and drops the nonsensical requirement you must retreat or evacuate beforehand in order to defend yourself. You can now indeed "Stand Your Ground" and defend yourself where you legitimately have a right to be. And that's what has the gun banners up in arms: they think you have no right to defend your life when someone is coming to kill you without chickening out first.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
5 posted on 10/04/2005 4:42:44 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: proud_yank
"There is no other state in the nation — and no other civilized nation on Earth — that has a law like this," Brady Campaign spokesman Peter Hamm said. "It could cause the most aggressive people in society to overreact."

1. Makes me proud to be a Floridian.

2. Far from his assertion, it will cause the most aggressive people to tone it down or end up as worm bait.

6 posted on 10/04/2005 4:44:57 PM PDT by SampleMan
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To: proud_yank

RE: "It seems like everybody ought to be packing a piece," said Mr. Ramm, a visitor from Ukiah, Calif., who found out about the law Monday from a gun-control group handing out leaflets at Miami International Airport. "I don't know if that's the right thing to do."

GOP_1900AD, who hates all the Communist carpetbaggers who have taken over California said "I can't wait for my next vacation in Florida - I'll be packing well for my trip. And I look forward to the day when I'll be packing well for grocery shopping here at home!"


7 posted on 10/04/2005 4:46:07 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: proud_yank
yeah, like I normally go looking for arguement,shouting and threatening gestures. that would be like being married.

furthermore, who gives a damn what some Canucks think unless it's for betting odds on the Stanley Cup.

8 posted on 10/04/2005 4:47:24 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Peace de Resistance! Viva la Paper towels!)
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To: proud_yank

The kids are on fall break and we are taking them to Florida tomorrow. Take THAT leftist weenies! I'll be sure to wear my NRA shirt that says " the second amendment, Americas original homeland security."


9 posted on 10/04/2005 4:49:01 PM PDT by Boiling point (If God had not meant for man to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat!)
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To: GOP_1900AD

In Oklahoma, the Democrats tried to pass a stealth gun control bill that prohibited any type of gun in a public park. The bill had a hidden amendment next to a bunch of funding for new hookups for RVs, golf course funds, etc. My buddy, State Senator Clark Jolley who also happens to be a fellow NRA member, went around frantically telling all that would hear that this bill would absolutely kill their NRA rating. In 5 minutes time this bill was DEAD.


10 posted on 10/04/2005 4:49:07 PM PDT by FleetBlog
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To: proud_yank
We should be spending the money spent on guns on art, literature, science and other things that would advance our society instead of stagnate it.

"When I hear the word 'pistol', I reach for my culture." - Herman Goering (more or less).

11 posted on 10/04/2005 4:49:48 PM PDT by Grut
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To: proud_yank

Darn, what a shame. I just had my heart set on going to Tampa next month to pick fights with random strangers :-(


12 posted on 10/04/2005 4:50:08 PM PDT by sassbox
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To: proud_yank

"The united states has the highest rate of deaths by guns in the world. A gun makes killing someone much easier than stabing them, strangling them, or killing them by other means."

Another twisted facts comment. The US has the highest rate of death by guns in the world, BUT, take away suicides and its ranking drops dramatically.

Homicide deaths by guns in the US is significantly lower than many other countries. Take those homicides committed in inner cities away, and its a whole other story.


13 posted on 10/04/2005 4:51:15 PM PDT by Peace will be here soon (Liberal definition of looting: " Self-help Humanitarian Aid.")
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To: FleetBlog

Excellent!


14 posted on 10/04/2005 4:53:15 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: proud_yank
Think they need a wholesale EMS callout to all available orthopedic doctors for the mass hand-wringing casualties?
15 posted on 10/04/2005 4:54:45 PM PDT by xcamel (No more RINOS - Not Now, Not Ever Again.)
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To: proud_yank

Florida just became a safer place for tourism is the message I see in the story.
I guess the anti gun people feel safer in places like Detroit, Chicago, LA, and NY where criminals have all the guns? Should be a boom for tourism yes?


16 posted on 10/04/2005 5:02:28 PM PDT by o_zarkman44
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To: All
It could cause the most aggressive people in society to overreact

The most aggressive people in society are the criminals and hopefully, someone will put a cap in their ass...

17 posted on 10/04/2005 5:07:33 PM PDT by michaelbfree
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To: proud_yank

I would submit that tourists are now safer in Florida than they used to be.


18 posted on 10/04/2005 5:07:44 PM PDT by billnaz (What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?)
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To: proud_yank
The whole right to carry movement got a huge boost when Florida passed it's concealed carry law more than 10 years ago. The law came into existence in large part due to a German couple being murdered shortly after arriving to the US and leaving the airport in Miami.

I remember the gun grabbers claiming it was going to be mass murders. A year after the law went into effect, some idiots from the gun grabber lobby entered the Dade County's sheriff office and "Demanded" to know how many shootings involved folks with the new permits. His reply, "You don't have to demand. Come back tomorrow and I'll have your info". Answer, "0 shootings and one license revoked due to drunk driving incident." Slap down.
19 posted on 10/04/2005 5:10:55 PM PDT by tang-soo (Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks - Read Daniel Chapter 9)
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To: proud_yank
Need we say more, an armed society is a polite society!

That was my thought when I heard the "warnings."

I really do not see them as warnings. I see them as advice about being polite that should be given to incoming foriegn tourists not matter what their detinastion state is.

20 posted on 10/04/2005 5:11:01 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Lt. Gen. Russel Honore to MSM: "You are stuck on stupid. Over.")
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To: proud_yank

The next step would be easy reciprocity with other states on CCW. CCW holders in good standing should be able to rent a piece while in FLA, just like a car. Then all of the good people will be on equal footing with the bad guys. Might cut down on bump and rob of rental cars by restless native felons.


21 posted on 10/04/2005 5:11:05 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine (Is /sarc really needed?)
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To: proud_yank

I'm surprised no Freepers have yet mentioned Switzerland ........everybody has a gun....(mandatory military reserve) ....lowest crime rate in the world


22 posted on 10/04/2005 5:12:02 PM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: proud_yank

Since NC and Fla are reciprocal states, I don't see this as a problem. I go to Fla I'll enjoy the same protection that the citizens of that fair state. I just hope that one day we can get the same change to our laws here in NC.


23 posted on 10/04/2005 5:26:35 PM PDT by Flint
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To: proud_yank
I'm taking the family to Disney World next summer. It will be nice to know that at times I'll probably be near a law-abiding citizen with a firearm.

Way to go Florida!

24 posted on 10/04/2005 5:28:41 PM PDT by The Toad
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To: proud_yank

Maybe we should start telling them there is "no duty to retreat" in Arizona and they will stay away from here too.

If we are lucky, people from Kalifornia and New York will stay away too. I don't travel to those states simply because they DO NOT allow citizens to carry firearms.


25 posted on 10/04/2005 6:26:46 PM PDT by jim-x ("Let's Roll" - Todd Beamer, UA Flight 93, September 11, 2001)
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To: All
In PA... we have a good Carry permit system. You go to the local Sheriff Dept, fill out a background check and you go home with it. I carry about 80% of the time.
The amazing thing is that the county sheriff told the wife of my buddy that they arrested 3 people in a week who were wanted on warrants who tried to get a carry permit.
If anything, carrying make me MORE cautous, because I don't go into bad neighborhoods looking for trouble. I advoid them completely. Most of my friends who have a CCW permit feels the same.
Peace thru Strenght
26 posted on 10/04/2005 6:26:49 PM PDT by Yorlik803 ( Dont crush that Dwarf,hand me the pliers)
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To: Boiling point

Question: How do you tell the difference between Democrats, Republicans and Southern Republicans?

The answer can be found by posing the following question:

You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.

What do you do?

Answer in the Extended Section...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Democrat's Answer

Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

Does the man look poor or Oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call 9-1-1? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.

This is all so confusing!

I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

Republican's Answer

BANG!

Southern Republican's Answer

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!

*click*

Daughter: "Nice grouping, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips?


27 posted on 10/04/2005 6:29:13 PM PDT by TheFrog
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To: The Toad

Just be sure you don't go to Disney World on "Gay Day" or you might have a lot of explaining to do.


28 posted on 10/04/2005 6:30:29 PM PDT by jim-x ("Let's Roll" - Todd Beamer, UA Flight 93, September 11, 2001)
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To: Peace will be here soon
"The united states has the highest rate of deaths by guns in the world. A gun makes killing someone much easier than stabing them, strangling them, or killing them by other means."

Another twisted facts comment. The US has the highest rate of death by guns in the world, BUT, take away suicides and its ranking drops dramatically.

Homicide deaths by guns in the US is significantly lower than many other countries. Take those homicides committed in inner cities away, and its a whole other story.


Its funny the mentality of some people, but also bear in mind that facts are to liberals as garlic is to vampires. Why on earth would you support your beliefs with facts and rational thought, when you can simply whine and moan about something purely emotional and childish???

Whenever I get hit with that type of nonsense from some of my classmates, it us usually topped off with something like: 'The only thing guns do is kill people'. My response: 'If thats the case, I guess mine are broken'.

Its nice knowing that Florida will be a safer place to travel!
29 posted on 10/04/2005 8:00:27 PM PDT by proud_yank (Socialism is economic oppression)
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To: shooter223
I'm surprised no Freepers have yet mentioned Switzerland ........everybody has a gun....(mandatory military reserve) ....lowest crime rate in the world

Is everyone a gun owner, i.e. one in their house? I always thought that they had some goofy laws that you had to keep private firearms at a police station or something goofy like that?
30 posted on 10/04/2005 8:06:15 PM PDT by proud_yank (Socialism is economic oppression)
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To: shooter223

Welcome to FR by the way!!


31 posted on 10/04/2005 8:08:42 PM PDT by proud_yank (Socialism is economic oppression)
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To: proud_yank; All
I think our strategy should be two-fold

First, all Florida Freepers should counter the brady-bunch with fliers of their own. Second, we should start our own, freepworld-wide, campaign to champion tourism in Florida.

32 posted on 10/04/2005 8:10:49 PM PDT by seadevil (...because you're a blithering idiot, that's why. Next question?)
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To: proud_yank
Next time I'm in Florida I'll be careful to not cut any one off!!Thanks for the warning!

Thank God. The new law is working already.

33 posted on 10/04/2005 8:25:08 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (When a Jihadist dies, an angel gets its wings)
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To: proud_yank

Last I heard (10 years ago?), every male between certain ages (something like 18-50) was a member of the military reserve. Each has his battle rifle (true assault rifle) and basic load of ammunition stored in their residence.

Never heard anything about this changing. Not sure about private firearms but most European countries require extraordinary storage requirements at home or keeping them at a range.

However, interestingly enough, military personnel in Germany were (are?) allowed to keep private firearms in their residence if they lived off post, including semi-auto rifles and handguns. Always wondered if this was common knowledge among the Germans since it was very difficult for them to purchase/own/possess firearms.


34 posted on 10/04/2005 8:52:05 PM PDT by jim-x ("Let's Roll" - Todd Beamer, UA Flight 93, September 11, 2001)
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To: proud_yank

last I heard (approx. 2yrs ago) Swiss citizens(sp?) do 2yrs mandatory military service starting at age 18 .....reserve after that until retirement age (55-65?)........required to keep their issue weapon in good working order w/ammo (at home) .......also required to keep up profiency with same (every town has a public rifle range)......I spent a weekend in Switzerland when I was in Germany in the army(U.S.ARMY 1972) after RVN......wasn't unusual to see young kids on bicycles with rifles slung over their shoulder going to the range ..........P.S. thanks for the welcome ....only been here a couple weeks....having fun so far


35 posted on 10/04/2005 10:21:31 PM PDT by shooter223 (the government should fear the citizens......not the other way around)
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To: proud_yank

Might just be me, but doe sthe Brady bunch travel with this show?

We could sure use them along the Texas border warning the illegals about the possibilties in Texas. I mean advertising is expensive and if these folks are willing to get teh word out for free... I mean,, Ya'll come now, hear?!


36 posted on 10/18/2005 4:55:38 PM PDT by lrb111 (Minutemen - Doing jobs the White House won't do.)
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To: proud_yank

Long Island, NY, is currently in a plague of "push-in" robberies and could benefit from such a law. It's my understanding that pump shotguns are flying off the shelves in local gun shops there. LINY Freepers contact your state assembly rep and Congressman Peter King. Perhaps the time is ripe!


37 posted on 11/08/2005 12:49:42 PM PST by CharlesThe Hammer (Lock & Load.)
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To: proud_yank
The leaflets begin with the words "An Important Notice to Florida Visitors" in bold red type by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Warning: You Could Be Safer in Florida than in Any Democrat-controlled City or State in the Nation.
38 posted on 11/08/2005 12:54:17 PM PST by aruanan
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