Posted on 10/05/2005 10:51:13 AM PDT by tjbravo
President George W. Bush asked Congress on Tuesday to consider giving him powers to use the military to enforce quarantines in case of an avian influenza epidemic.
He said the military, and perhaps the National Guard, might be needed to take such a role if the feared H5N1 bird flu virus changes enough to cause widespread human infection.
"If we had an outbreak somewhere in the United States, do we not then quarantine that part of the country? And how do you, then, enforce a quarantine?" Bush asked at a news conference.
"It's one thing to shut down airplanes. It's another thing to prevent people from coming in to get exposed to the avian flu. And who best to be able to effect a quarantine?" Bush added.
"One option is the use of a military that's able to plan and move. So that's why I put it on the table. I think it's an important debate for Congress to have."
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.myway.com ...
As scary as using the military in a civilian capacity may seem it is not nearly as scary as the spectre of another global flu pandemic like the one that killed over 20,000,000 people worldwide in 1918.
The US military is the only organization on earth to respond to a situation of this magnitude if it occurs (which I sincerely hope it does not).
If you want to read what I am talking about, Google "1918 influenza". This was the greatest human disaster of the past 100 years and it has been mostly forgotten.
No comment until I hear what Dustin Hoffman has to say.
The answer to everything lately is "the military". True Americans should be very alarmed at this.
TLR
Carolyn
The answer to everything lately is "the military". True Americans should be very alarmed at this.
TLR
Wonder if they can innoculate the quarantiners against the quarantinees?
Shouldn't we consult Bianca Jagger on this one ?
Taking the military out of the equation would be foolish since the scale of an outbreak of this kind or another disaster - terrorist, criminal, or natural - requires that extraordinary measures be planned and ready.
The sovereignty of the states must also be preserved, which means the discussion the President is asking for must take place.
At the moment our nation's disaster response is held hostage by the weakest link, and that weakest link can appear at any level of government. In the case of Katrina it was local government, but that doesn't preclude a future administration from being the weakest link at the Federal level.
Debate and discussion on this issue need to take place. After the debate, we the people will have to decide which direction to take from there.
Exactly!
Considering the chaos in NO during a flood imagine the scale with a nationwide pandemic.
But even if it meant the loss of my own family currently, at no point would I advocate the use of the military for 'humanitarian' purposes on US soil. But of course Republicans have advocated that in one form or another since the beginning of the party haven't they? Good to see Bush is returning back to even more Republican roots
It disturbs me that so many that consider themselves conservative would be willing to hand any portion of control to the military on our home soil
Look at the job the local officials did concerning Katrina. They were more dangerous than the hurricane.
The military already has the organizational skills to spread out and help if it comes to pass.
think conversely
what if
alqueda delivers biological agents?
as it is there has not been a natural pandemic. we are long overdue and the population levels are too high let alone the ability of disease, any disease, to travel globally
in my opinion containment strategy is necessary. even if bird fu is an excuse.
Quarantine an entire part of the country??? Don't you think that is a bit overboard? Will the entire Bible Belt be quarantined because of a farm in Knoxville? Don't leave me, Danny!
I thought you two might be interested in this.
The only way to find out why the virus was so virulent and how to defeat it was to reproduce it.
The retrieval of whole virus from an Inupiat woman buried deep in the permafrost of NW Alaska in Brevig Mission after the 1918 pandemic is one of the great medical detective stories of all time.
Anyone wanting to read up on this should get a copy of "Flu" by Gina Kolata.
Actually, it's a good idea. We need live samples in order to study how these things evolve from an avian specific virus to a human transmission capable virus so effective treatments and appropriate control measures can be developed.
Once in a while a proposal out of the blue comes from the White House. This is one of those. 'Close Encounters' encounters reality.
Exactly.
What was the military's role in the 1918 pandemic, exactly?
TLR
Don't leave me, Danny!
You mean he is disguied as Big Mac?
Carolyn
Neither the US government nor military will be able to contain a flu pandemic. A virus is very small but even so, it's still beyond the resources and reach of the government. Yes Mr. President, there are some things that can't be solved by sending in the military or more government involvement.
This falls into the "look busy" pigeon hole.
Fair enough. Thanks! :-)
Those are questions that need answers. Discussion and debate on this issue needs to take place in order for an effective policy can be formulated which is consistent with our Federal system.
It won't be easy, and may not even be possible, but the discussion must take place. It might jar a few marbles and get some local authorities planning on their own, or in conjunction with neighboring states.
My husband has been doing a lot of research on this. He has found out that there was a strain of flu that then mutated into the deadly strain. It is believed (found?) that the people who got the original flu did not die from the mutated flu strain. They also still can not figure out why the age group that died the most was 18-45.
Sorry but I don't think your arguments are rational. The US military is NOT the enemy of US citizens in times of dire straits.
BTW, the US Army lost more soldiers to influenza in WW I than were lost in combat. At Camp Devens in Massacheusetts, over 100 previously healthy 18 & 19 y/o soldiers were dying per day for over 2 months.
If H5N1 mutates to infect by person-to-person contact, NO ONE will be safe from it. NOT using the military to help would be an act of madness.
Why is the same discussion taking place in Australia, Italy, and the UK for entirely different reasons--all within the last month? Source: Vox Day.
I wouldn't worry about the millitary.
If a pandemic of that nature broke out, someone will shoot you long before you see any guys in fatigues if you happen to walk into their space.
Who said the military was our enemy? They would like answers too, like why ten men can put a thousand to flight... I won't even begin to discuss what a major told me in Atlanta, but suffice it to say that the rules of engagement are peculiar.
I agree. This is very troubling. I heard one doctor discussing last night what this would look like. Military enforcing a quarantine on a population. Not good. The death rate he said from this flu could be 50% of those who get it. The 1918 flu death rate was 5%. So by enforcing a quarantine, some people will die becuase of it, including the members of the military itself. I've heard this doctor before and he never sounded like an alarmist to me. This could be potentially very bad and I don't think I want the military handling it. Yes, I can see the advantages, but I think the disadvantages outweigh them.
"And who best to be able to effect a quarantine"
Looks like Nagin did a pretty good job of it in NO! :)
"It disturbs me that so many that consider themselves conservative would be willing to hand any portion of control to the military on our home soil."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree. I question the rationale of those who support it, and wonder whether they will be comfortable when said military is quartered comfortably in their homes.
If quarantine will be such an effective tool against this flu, why aren't they doing it in China? Why would we worry that it would even reach this side of the planet?
Why wouldn't we just close our borders and prevent it from coming in altogether? We would use the military against our own citizens, but not against those who bring the danger...
Bravo, post #37. This roundtable discussion approach by Doc seems familiar--where have I heard this before? Was it that diversity of thought committee at the office that identifies troublemakers or was it that gripe committee at the factory that identifies troublemakers or was it Thatcher at 555 or was it... Oh, yeah: Don't leave me, Danny!
"The answer to everything lately is "the military". True Americans should be very alarmed at this"
Ah! A glimmer of light. Very,very refreshing
People did not travel on planes back then. It could be spread in just a few hours to many parts of the country.
They may not be. However what does the law state? You do it once, the next time another excuse is given you will have no ground to stand on protesting it.
BTW, the US Army lost more soldiers to influenza in WW I than were lost in combat. At Camp Devens in Massacheusetts, over 100 previously healthy 18 & 19 y/o soldiers
Your point? Why should how many soldiers lost to disease affect the fact that US Armed Forces have been specifically ordered by law not to operate on US soil?
If H5N1 mutates to infect by person-to-person contact, NO ONE will be safe from it. NOT using the military to help would be an act of madness.
Except you just stated that 100 soldiers were dying a day for over two months. If no one is safe from it, what's the point of putting forces on the ground that will be just as suspectible to the disease as I am? If they have been immunized against it, I would rather private industry provide me the same vaccine at what they feel is market price. I'll choose to protect my land and property myself without the 'help' of armed troops thank you.
Operator, won't you help me please?
My question is if they consider it dangerous enough for that then why arent they doing something about the appalling lack of antivirals and flu vaccines available.
"It disturbs me that so many that consider themselves conservative would be willing to hand any portion of control to the military on our home soil"
For quite some time I thought the differentiation between conservatives and neo-conservatives was a figment of someone's inmagination, a wedge to divide us. Observing the discussions on FR lately, I am beginning to think that there is a difference and not a small one.
Why does that matter?
What is wrong with our country, as a whole, at all levels, discussing the problem and the possible solutions?
There is really only one organization in the country that can perform on the national level cohesively to enact a policy of quarantine and humanitarian medical assistance. That is the military. That does not mean that the military is the best answer. That's what the discussion is supposed to explore, and a lot can be learned from the military on how best to implement a national policy.
The discussion that is to take place is to help clarify the capabilities of the military, the possibilities of non-military responses, and how best to save lives and preserve our nation in the face of an infectious outbreak.
Bush posed the questions. He didn't propose a solution. He just mentioned one of the options.
I lost two homes and a business in Katrina. I have experienced Local, State, Private, and Military aid. While I appreciate all of the people lending support, the Military rises far above all others. When shown appreciation for their help, these fine people will bend over backwards to do whatever they can to help. They do it in effficient military style also!
LLS
Sorry but I don't think your arguments are rational. The US military is NOT the enemy of US citizens in times of dire straits.
The military is fine, but the military is controlled by the politicians (both plusses and miuses on that subject).
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