Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THE HALLMARK OF THE UNDERCLASS
ncpa.org ^ | Thursday, October 06, 2005

Posted on 10/06/2005 8:43:07 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch

THE HALLMARK OF THE UNDERCLASS

Daily Policy Digest

ECONOMIC ISSUES

Thursday, October 06, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Versions of every program being proposed by the administration in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina have been tried before and evaluated. We already know that the programs are mismatched with the characteristics of the underclass, says Charles Murray of the American Enterprise Institute.

Job training? Unemployment in the underclass is not caused by lack of jobs or of job skills, but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. A homesteading act? The lack of home ownership is not caused by the inability to save money from meager earnings, but because the concept of thrift is alien. You name it, we've tried it. It doesn't work with the underclass, says Murray.

Consider:

The crime rate has been dropping for 13 years, but the proportion of young men who grow up unsocialized and who, given the opportunity, commit crimes, has not; criminality, measured by the percentage of the population under correctional supervision has risen from 1.9 percent in 1992 to 2.4 percent in 2003. Among black males ages 20-24, the percentage not working or looking for work in 1954 was 9 percent, but that rate grew to 30 percent in 1999, a year when employers were frantically seeking workers for every level of job. The illegitimacy ratio, the percentage of births by single women, was 4 percent in the 1950s and has risen to 35 percent as of 2003; the black illegitimacy ratio in 2003 was 68 percent, up from 24 percent in the 1960s. Poor people who are not part of the underclass seldom need help to get out of poverty. Despite the exceptions that get the newspaper ink, the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive. And behaving self-destructively is the hallmark of the underclass, says Murray.

Source: Charles Murray, "The Hallmark of the Underclass," Wall Street Journal, September 29, 2005.

For text (subscription required):

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112795305361255317,00.html

For more on Economy:

http://www.ncpa.org/iss/eco/


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: underclass; unemployment; urbanbarbarians
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-70 next last
Unemployment in the underclass is not caused by lack of jobs or of job skills, but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work.

OUCH

1 posted on 10/06/2005 8:43:08 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Sorry, but no work: no food, no housing, etc. Welfare is not the solution to correct this. People are making excuses for others.


2 posted on 10/06/2005 8:46:22 AM PDT by thebaron512
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Bump!


3 posted on 10/06/2005 8:46:52 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl ("President Bush, start building that wall"!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

If I could just work from bed...


4 posted on 10/06/2005 8:47:08 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (Troubled by NOLA looting ? You ain't seen nothing yet.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

This is painfully obvious. You can only help those who want to be helped.


5 posted on 10/06/2005 8:47:39 AM PDT by txroadhawg (Don't believe any statistics unless you made them up yourself)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

It is the truth. Now if we could just pay the underclas to stop having children we could make progress in eliminating poverty.


6 posted on 10/06/2005 8:48:05 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
In America, poverty is not a situation beyond your control.
7 posted on 10/06/2005 8:48:30 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: thebaron512

The solution is to bind the "Two Americas." This country was not free for everyone until 1965, since then this country has been divided by the dispersment of property taxes.


8 posted on 10/06/2005 8:49:01 AM PDT by master thesis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

For me getting up for work is easy. The only problem I have nowadays is there doesn't seem to be a dime left after getting paid.


9 posted on 10/06/2005 8:50:11 AM PDT by Black Tooth (The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

It is the truth. Now if we could just pay the underclas to stop having children we could make progress in eliminating poverty.


10 posted on 10/06/2005 8:51:31 AM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wideawake
In America, poverty is not a situation beyond your control.

The real problem is that as Americans, we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what poverty is. I challenge any liberal to go spend some time in the 3rd world sh*thole of your choice, then come back to the US and tell me where the "poor" people are.

Hint: There aren't any.

11 posted on 10/06/2005 8:51:46 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
Those statistics are hair-raising and intolerable.

... but racist.

No further discussion is allowed.

12 posted on 10/06/2005 8:52:45 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
Your post makes absolutely no sense to me.

Can you elaborate when you're sober?

13 posted on 10/06/2005 8:54:13 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks

The problem is weening them off the dole. We have 4 generations who believe Section 8 housing and food stamps are their RIGHT as Americans.


14 posted on 10/06/2005 8:54:51 AM PDT by calrighty (`Nobody)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

When I show up for work, I've done my part. It's their job to get something out of me.


15 posted on 10/06/2005 8:55:10 AM PDT by BipolarBob (I'm really BagdadBob under the witness protection program.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Terabitten

Thats a very ignorant thing to say.

25% of minorities live under poverty, what do you think that number was before 1965, was it their fault then?

Why don't you try something; go to an inner city school and try to blame that on minorities.


16 posted on 10/06/2005 8:55:49 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
Welfare is,and has been for many years,a career choice in this country.And that's exactly the way the Kennedys,Clintions and Jesse Jacksons of this country want it!
17 posted on 10/06/2005 8:56:14 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

Painfully true.

Late night TV and partying and "the early bird..." do not mix.


18 posted on 10/06/2005 8:56:27 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
Unemployment in the underclass is not caused by lack of jobs or of job skills, but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work.

Twelve years as a day's pay employee and 13 years in labor relations taught me the truth of this statement beyond contest. The number one reason for mine employee discharge by a country mile -- absenteeism!!!!

19 posted on 10/06/2005 8:56:40 AM PDT by JimSEA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
So true. Many of my friends have average jobs (less than $15 an hour), small, modest homes (which they own), two decent used or older vehicles and just a few bucks in reserve cash. They would be considered at least not rich. I know a few people who could have the same things, but refuse to work. They just can't seem to stay on a job.

My best friend waited tables and her husband has held the same job in a warehouse for 10 years. They have two kids and one on the way. They are happy, they are fine because they have worked consistently. The true underclass does not do this.

It used to be the underclass was not nurtured to grow through federal subsidies. People had to figure out how to make a go of life or, well, not. Society also used to attach moral stigma to people who lacked the virtue to hold a job, stay off alcohol and stay our of trouble with the law. We don't do that anymore because it isn't politically correct to make people accountable.
20 posted on 10/06/2005 8:57:09 AM PDT by auntyfemenist (Get out of bed, go to work every day, many problems magically solved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: master thesis

and which america do you belong to?


21 posted on 10/06/2005 8:57:18 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (The search for someone to blame is always successful. - Robert Half)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Black Tooth

You mean that I'm not the only one in that boat??!! I had to take a part time job to help and it is not enough hours so I will probably look for a third job too.


22 posted on 10/06/2005 8:57:28 AM PDT by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961

Property taxes fund education, how could you expect any minority group to build a good education system since 1965.


23 posted on 10/06/2005 8:57:54 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961

Ignoring the problem if they are black, white, yellow is not going to make the problem go away.


24 posted on 10/06/2005 9:00:03 AM PDT by thebaron512
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
Maybe I just like to argue and keep a good perspective so I don't feel too black hearted.

But with all that said, if we enforce the "Robin Hood plan" to fund all schools equally, no school would be satisfactory.

There just isn't enough money for any thing as long as we try to be more efficient than any other nation in the new globalized economy.
25 posted on 10/06/2005 9:01:41 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: master thesis

Spending more money on education is not going fix the problems. It is an attitude problem, not a money problem. Many countries spend less on education per student and get better results. The Feds dump money into lower income schools with no real results, so blaming local taxes is not the solution.


26 posted on 10/06/2005 9:02:33 AM PDT by thebaron512
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Terabitten
The underclass and poor in the US can get themselves to the emergency room (their family physician) for treatment, can get a break on housing and food, can have all sorts of benefits in addition to this and yet they all have the most up to the minute high tech stereo, vcr, TV, car stereo, etc and tons of other material goodies I cannot afford. For all the benefits, free doctors, dentists, food, housing, etc...they do NOT know what a bill looks like. I did not have medical benefits until 3 years ago, and every year the premium has increased while the benefits have diminished. Bet they don't have that problem. But they are still calling themselves 'poor'..that's a laugh
27 posted on 10/06/2005 9:03:00 AM PDT by SMARTY ("Stay together, pay the soldiers and forget everything else." Lucius Septimus Severus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
Thats a very ignorant thing to say. 25% of minorities live under poverty, what do you think that number was before 1965, was it their fault then? Why don't you try something; go to an inner city school and try to blame that on minorities.

I believe we have very different definitions of poverty, and that was the point of my previous post.

I've spent plenty of time in the 3rd world. I've been places where "middle class" meant you had a dirt floor, one room "house" and maybe electricity sometimes. I've seen entire families living in appliance boxes, with some plastic sheeting on top to keep the rain out.

Go to that same inner city school, and try to find a single student who lives in a household without an automobile, electricity, running water, and a color TV.

We are so wealthy as a society that we have a skewed view of what poverty is. The truly poor people I've met all around the world would *love* to live in American "poverty."

28 posted on 10/06/2005 9:03:46 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961

I think your answer is:

Master Thesis
Since Oct 6, 2005


29 posted on 10/06/2005 9:04:46 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SMARTY

A lot of the so-called "poor" ALSO own homes!! Well...they may not have much equity but their names are on title.


30 posted on 10/06/2005 9:05:22 AM PDT by RockinRight (Why are there so many RINOs?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: eleni121
Late night TV and partying and "the early bird..." do not mix.

I dunno, I can go for a couple days before it catches up to me LOL....

31 posted on 10/06/2005 9:05:28 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: thebaron512

Agreed, the attitude of the impoverished will keep them in perpetual poverty.

I know we as capitalists can never condone this attitude, I just people would have a little more understanding toward the integral population.

We just can't expect them to change attitudes in 40 years.

Uneducated parents raise uneducated children.


32 posted on 10/06/2005 9:07:24 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch

"The government cannot relieve from toil"
"The final solution from unemployment is work."

Calvin Coolidge


33 posted on 10/06/2005 9:08:51 AM PDT by cotton1706
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
Uneducated parents raise uneducated children.

No, unMOTIVATED parents raise uneducated children.

Read the bio for General Honore. His parents were sharecroppers, but they wanted a better life for their children, so they motivated him to get an education. Now, the son of a Louisiana sharecropper is a three star general.

34 posted on 10/06/2005 9:11:07 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: master thesis

The Underclass creates nothing it only destroys that which the productive have built. The education available to it is paid for by those who work.


35 posted on 10/06/2005 9:11:48 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
Thats a very ignorant thing to say. 25% of minorities live under poverty, what do you think that number was before 1965, was it their fault then? Why don't you try something; go to an inner city school and try to blame that on minorities.

I wanna tell ya something,newcomer...I,unlike most folks in this country (and in the West,for that matter) have walked the streets of Delhi,Dar Es Salaam and Lusaka and have traveled the rural roads ("roads" being used generously here) of Tanzania,Zambia and Malawi.

I have also seen a lot of "inner city" Boston,parts of Harlem and the Bronx as well as other "inner city" areas.

I have,as well,worked in the Emergency Room of a major Boston hospital that serves the "inner city" for 20 years...and I'm here to tell ya that very,very few (if any) people in this country know *real* poverty (as in Tanzania/India) through no fault of their own.

In more than a few parts of the world,"poverty" means black kids with red hair,swollen bellies and little stick legs (I've personally come within a few feet of such a kid) whereas,in this country,"poverty" means taking the bus because you can't afford a car.

36 posted on 10/06/2005 9:12:18 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Black Tooth

I feel your pain! I'm a member of that club too!


37 posted on 10/06/2005 9:13:47 AM PDT by derllak
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
When I go into a failing school, where kids are attacking teachers, refuse to participate in class and learn and actually value disrespect and antisocial behavior, I think there is a problem at home that allows these developments.

Many poor and underclass people have been sent the message that they don't have to explain why they engage in immoral behavior and refuse to cultivate any virtues. They don't have to be accountable for inflicting upon society children they have neglected and taught to be impertinent to all authority. All this is subsidized by the federal government.

Poverty is not the problem, lack of accountability, even to one's self, is. Funny how all those figures jumped drastically and have kept rising since 1965.
38 posted on 10/06/2005 9:14:42 AM PDT by auntyfemenist (Get out of bed, go to work every day, many problems magically solved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: master thesis

When kids attend school sporadically because their parents don't get them up and out of the house in time to catch free transportation who is to blame?

When they don't come in with a writing implement, but have a cell phone and the teacher has already distributed boxes of pens she bought herself, who is to blame?

When kids are tired at school because they are staying up too late who is to blame?

When teachers can't convince parents to come in for a conference about their kids' progress, who is to blame?

Friends who teach in the inner city amaze me with stories of how some parents just have a problem with getting their kids to school every day. And if a parent is unable to do this because they are drunk or ignorant, just who is to blame????

And this is not the case with every minority student. Plenty of "minority" students have no problems and do quite well in inner city schools.

Being poor, or living in a crappy neighborhood isn't the problem. Its the mindset of the underclass. My friend, a building maintenance man, asked a mother why her kids weren't in school and were lounging on the couch watching tv. She said, "They got up too late for the bus." Just who is to blame?


39 posted on 10/06/2005 9:14:42 AM PDT by YankeeGirl (Certa bonum certamen)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Gay State Conservative

Luckily this is America and we don't have to compare our poor with 3rd world nations.

Are you saying the poor in America are selfish for comparing themselves to other Americans?


40 posted on 10/06/2005 9:15:39 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Terabitten
"I believe we have very different definitions of poverty, and that was the point of my previous post.

I've spent plenty of time in the 3rd world. I've been places where "middle class" meant you had a dirt floor, one room "house" and maybe electricity sometimes. I've seen entire families living in appliance boxes, with some plastic sheeting on top to keep the rain out.

Go to that same inner city school, and try to find a single student who lives in a household without an automobile, electricity, running water, and a color TV.

We are so wealthy as a society that we have a skewed view of what poverty is. The truly poor people I've met all around the world would *love* to live in American "poverty.""

I have traveled to a large amount of Countries and I agree with you!
41 posted on 10/06/2005 9:17:00 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." AYN RAND)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: YankeeGirl

The lack of hope is to blame. When everything around is shit, even your schools, there isn't much hope to go around.

The fact is it takes a super hero to come out of the ghetto without by not conforming to the sub-culture.


42 posted on 10/06/2005 9:19:42 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
We just can't expect them to change attitudes in 40 years.

I'd say the attitude has gotten worse under the "Great Society", and that an ingrained sense of entitlement has killed any vestigal spirit of necessity.

43 posted on 10/06/2005 9:20:17 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: InvisibleChurch
Poor people who are not part of the underclass seldom need help to get out of poverty. Despite the exceptions that get the newspaper ink, the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive. And behaving self-destructively is the hallmark of the underclass, says Murray.

Just look around and see the evidence that there's something to this.

The guy who works on a construction crew, learns a trade. In a few years, he looks around and says, "I can do this myself." So he puts a magnetic sign on his truck, starts a business and pretty soon he's making money and hiring other guys.

The woman who starts a housecleaning business. She works hard and pretty soon she's also hiring others to help. And she's not poor anymore.

44 posted on 10/06/2005 9:21:37 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent ("Tell the truth. The Pajama People are watching you.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: YankeeGirl

Today's poverty level is %25, what do you think that number was before the 1965 Civil Rights Act.

You can't help to have a bad attitude when you have been at a disadvantage the whole time your people have been in a country.

Do you deny that inner city minorities were at a disadvantage starting in 1965?


45 posted on 10/06/2005 9:23:23 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: auntyfemenist

You see this all the time. It's not how much money you make, it's how you manage it.

I know a guy who started parking cars at a hotel. He came to work on time and worked. After a while, they made him the shift leader, then the next level of responsibility. Now he is the manager of the whole car parking operation.

He has worked steadily, moved up and has great benefits. Not glamourous, but he has minded his p's and q's, provided for his family, and at this point they are no longer poor.


46 posted on 10/06/2005 9:25:17 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent ("Tell the truth. The Pajama People are watching you.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Tijeras_Slim

The only thing that united blacks before 1965 was Christianity.

Now a days no one is united under Christianity and you can only blame that on one thing, the info age.

Everyone has had the problem with instant gratification, it would make sense that the poor would be the most effected.


47 posted on 10/06/2005 9:26:14 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
Are you saying the poor in America are selfish for comparing themselves to other Americans?

I'll say it.

Yes.

We have to define what "poor" really is. Otherwise, why can't I say that I'm poor because there are Americans who live better than me? My boss makes more money than me and can afford things I can't. Clearly, the fact that others have a higher standard of living than me does not make me poor. However, if I demand that my boss give up more of his money through taxation to provide me with a better standard of living, I'm clearly being selfish.

I grew up poor by American standards. I'm now middle class. I got there without a dime of public assistance - I worked my ass off for it. America is the land of opportunity, and anyone that is willing to expend the energy to better themselves can do so.

48 posted on 10/06/2005 9:27:21 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: master thesis
Are you saying the poor in America are selfish for comparing themselves to other Americans?

You've missed my point,friend.I don't believe in the existence of "poverty" in this country that warrants any kind of sympathy.In other countries, absolutely! Here? No.

Are there people in this country who need and deserve assistance? Yes! I've seen more than a few during my tenure at the hospital.

Has welfare and "poverty" become a "career choice" for many people in this country? You better believe it! I've seen it...close up.

49 posted on 10/06/2005 9:27:35 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: master thesis

Please provide us with your definition of "poverty."


50 posted on 10/06/2005 9:32:21 AM PDT by CSM (When laws are written, they apply to ALL...Not just the yucky people you don't like. - HairOfTheDog)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-70 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson