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THE HALLMARK OF THE UNDERCLASS
ncpa.org ^ | Thursday, October 06, 2005

Posted on 10/06/2005 8:43:07 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch

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To: Terabitten
"I believe we have very different definitions of poverty, and that was the point of my previous post.

I've spent plenty of time in the 3rd world. I've been places where "middle class" meant you had a dirt floor, one room "house" and maybe electricity sometimes. I've seen entire families living in appliance boxes, with some plastic sheeting on top to keep the rain out.

Go to that same inner city school, and try to find a single student who lives in a household without an automobile, electricity, running water, and a color TV.

We are so wealthy as a society that we have a skewed view of what poverty is. The truly poor people I've met all around the world would *love* to live in American "poverty.""

I have traveled to a large amount of Countries and I agree with you!
41 posted on 10/06/2005 9:17:00 AM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." AYN RAND)
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To: YankeeGirl

The lack of hope is to blame. When everything around is shit, even your schools, there isn't much hope to go around.

The fact is it takes a super hero to come out of the ghetto without by not conforming to the sub-culture.


42 posted on 10/06/2005 9:19:42 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
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To: master thesis
We just can't expect them to change attitudes in 40 years.

I'd say the attitude has gotten worse under the "Great Society", and that an ingrained sense of entitlement has killed any vestigal spirit of necessity.

43 posted on 10/06/2005 9:20:17 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Now that taglines are cool, I refuse to have one.)
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To: InvisibleChurch
Poor people who are not part of the underclass seldom need help to get out of poverty. Despite the exceptions that get the newspaper ink, the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive. And behaving self-destructively is the hallmark of the underclass, says Murray.

Just look around and see the evidence that there's something to this.

The guy who works on a construction crew, learns a trade. In a few years, he looks around and says, "I can do this myself." So he puts a magnetic sign on his truck, starts a business and pretty soon he's making money and hiring other guys.

The woman who starts a housecleaning business. She works hard and pretty soon she's also hiring others to help. And she's not poor anymore.

44 posted on 10/06/2005 9:21:37 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent ("Tell the truth. The Pajama People are watching you.")
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To: YankeeGirl

Today's poverty level is %25, what do you think that number was before the 1965 Civil Rights Act.

You can't help to have a bad attitude when you have been at a disadvantage the whole time your people have been in a country.

Do you deny that inner city minorities were at a disadvantage starting in 1965?


45 posted on 10/06/2005 9:23:23 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
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To: auntyfemenist

You see this all the time. It's not how much money you make, it's how you manage it.

I know a guy who started parking cars at a hotel. He came to work on time and worked. After a while, they made him the shift leader, then the next level of responsibility. Now he is the manager of the whole car parking operation.

He has worked steadily, moved up and has great benefits. Not glamourous, but he has minded his p's and q's, provided for his family, and at this point they are no longer poor.


46 posted on 10/06/2005 9:25:17 AM PDT by wouldntbprudent ("Tell the truth. The Pajama People are watching you.")
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To: Tijeras_Slim

The only thing that united blacks before 1965 was Christianity.

Now a days no one is united under Christianity and you can only blame that on one thing, the info age.

Everyone has had the problem with instant gratification, it would make sense that the poor would be the most effected.


47 posted on 10/06/2005 9:26:14 AM PDT by master thesis (E=MC2 when apes evolve to people)
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To: master thesis
Are you saying the poor in America are selfish for comparing themselves to other Americans?

I'll say it.

Yes.

We have to define what "poor" really is. Otherwise, why can't I say that I'm poor because there are Americans who live better than me? My boss makes more money than me and can afford things I can't. Clearly, the fact that others have a higher standard of living than me does not make me poor. However, if I demand that my boss give up more of his money through taxation to provide me with a better standard of living, I'm clearly being selfish.

I grew up poor by American standards. I'm now middle class. I got there without a dime of public assistance - I worked my ass off for it. America is the land of opportunity, and anyone that is willing to expend the energy to better themselves can do so.

48 posted on 10/06/2005 9:27:21 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
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To: master thesis
Are you saying the poor in America are selfish for comparing themselves to other Americans?

You've missed my point,friend.I don't believe in the existence of "poverty" in this country that warrants any kind of sympathy.In other countries, absolutely! Here? No.

Are there people in this country who need and deserve assistance? Yes! I've seen more than a few during my tenure at the hospital.

Has welfare and "poverty" become a "career choice" for many people in this country? You better believe it! I've seen it...close up.

49 posted on 10/06/2005 9:27:35 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: master thesis

Please provide us with your definition of "poverty."


50 posted on 10/06/2005 9:32:21 AM PDT by CSM (When laws are written, they apply to ALL...Not just the yucky people you don't like. - HairOfTheDog)
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To: Terabitten

"spend some time in a 3rd world s***hole..come back to the US and tell me where the poor are."Does Mexico fit that catagory?My first trip outside the US was to Tijuana in August.A real eyeopener.Lottts of poverty.I spent time just walking around,talking to people on the street.My impression,we've got it pretty good here.BTW,when they say "don't drink the water",that includes tap water in your hotel room:(


51 posted on 10/06/2005 9:42:00 AM PDT by Thombo2
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To: master thesis
When everything around is shit, even your schools, there isn't much hope to go around.

Ever been to the inner-city and seen the automobiles that the "poor" drive? They would put mine to shame.

Ever seen the clothes that the "poor" have? Name-brand clothes, hats, NFL apparel, you name it - makes my Levi's jeans that I bought at Wally World look like a pauper's rags.

What about the jewelry they wear? I seen all of it, and then some, because I grew up in Racine, WI, which is the Benton Harbor of Wisconsin, and gee - these people have tons of money, driving Cadillac Escalades with tinted windows and chrome rims with expensive stereo systems, yet they can't come up with money to pay their electric bill. I've always wondered that - they got a widescreen TV with an Xbox but they the "electric slide" - not paying the electric bill through the winter knowing that they'll get energy assistance and that it's illegal for power companies to turn off electricity in the winter here in WI.

Take your poor arguments and shove it!

52 posted on 10/06/2005 9:42:14 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: master thesis
We just can't expect them to change attitudes in 40 years.

Please explain to me the massive percentage jump of young men incarcerated, out of wedlock births and other such behavioral problems in the 40 years hence. Could it be that since the federal government has made it a policy to pay for these things, many groups have jumped on this "gravy train" with both feet? Why?

53 posted on 10/06/2005 9:59:09 AM PDT by auntyfemenist (Get out of bed, go to work every day, many problems magically solved.)
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; mercygrace; Laissez-faire capitalist; bellevuesbest; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

Excellent article and fine comments on the thread.

One thing I didn't see as I scanned down:

ILLEGITIMACY IS RAMPANT AMONG 'POOR' PEOPLE ESPECIALLY AMONG BLACKS!!!! 75=80% OF BLACK BABIES ARE BORN TO UNMARRIED MOTHERS!

And now one third of ALL births in the US. This will destroy society if not changed.

Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.


54 posted on 10/06/2005 10:02:27 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Got your back here. I live on the border of Gary, Indiana. The grocery store parking lots are full of Cadillacs, Jaguars, Lincolns, Lexus, Infinity, all with $5000 Wheels on them, and then they are using Food Stamps to pay for groceries.

They are wearing name brand everything, and have about $4000 worth of jewelry on.

I think the Master's Thesis is crap, and I would grade it as such. Not only that but the Master's Degree should be revoked because all the words used are plagiarized from the MSM and greedy politicians.
55 posted on 10/06/2005 10:04:02 AM PDT by southlake_hoosier (.... One Nation, Under God.......)
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To: Terabitten

I can go for a couple days before it catches up to me LOL....




Of course...we all can.

I guess the article is referring to the ones who live for the night so to speak.


56 posted on 10/06/2005 10:08:11 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: master thesis
You signed up today to give us victim lectures?

Hmmmmmm.

Most of the 'poor' I have met were in rural areas.

The ones who were worst off usually had a drinking problem.

Aside from that, they just didn't make much money, but they worked, whether it be for a wage or to feed the wood stove all winter, grow a garden, pick berries, can preserves and vegetables, whatever.

They got by without goverment relief. That was charity, and they 'didn't need none of that'.

When the day was done, they had rough hands, sore backs, a roof over their heads, a warm house, a good meal, and a lot of self-respect.

Been there, done that, could do it again if I had to.

57 posted on 10/06/2005 10:08:34 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Thombo2
Does Mexico fit that catagory?

Absolutely. Most of Central America fits that category.

58 posted on 10/06/2005 10:09:13 AM PDT by Terabitten (God grant me the strength to live a life worthy of those who have gone before me.)
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To: master thesis
Property taxes fund education, how could you expect any minority group to build a good education system since 1965.

I went to one of those inner city schools, in crappy neighborhood, and I managed to get a great education there. It is possible, if you want to.

The goodness, or, crappiness, of your education is entirely up to you, and no one else.

We just can't expect them to change attitudes in 40 years

Why not ? After all, they are perfectly capable people with free-will, aren't they ? I think your attitude belittles and diminishes them, as if they were incapable of making rational decisions. They aren't.

They are making the choices that they are because they are enabled by the numerous government funded social programs that reward such behaviour.

Further, those attitudes were not there 40 years ago when the great society programs began. At that time, black families had a higher rate of in-marriage child bearing than whites. 40 years is plenty of time; 40 days is plently of time to change an attitude IF YOU WANT TO.

You call your attitude understanding and compassion; I call it enabling the destruction of others in the name of understanding and compassion.

59 posted on 10/06/2005 10:28:30 AM PDT by Red Boots
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To: master thesis
"Everyone has had the problem with instant gratification, it would make sense that the poor would be the most effected."

Why?

60 posted on 10/06/2005 10:54:38 AM PDT by Sam's Army (Intense and spicy, with a hint of sarcasm and a dry finish.)
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