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Dover, PA Evolution Trial [daily thread for 07 Oct]
York Daily Record ^ | 07 October 2005 | Staff

Posted on 10/07/2005 7:23:15 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

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To: highball
First of all, lack of evidence for a thing's existence does not equal evidence that said thing never existed.

Using your logic, the fact that there are no unicorns that exist today is not evidence they never existed.

As Rush would say, this is using absurdity to expose the absurd.

101 posted on 10/07/2005 1:32:53 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: King Prout
It's simple when you remember that creationists totally misrepresent and lie about what evolution is and what it states.

It goes like this.

Evolution states that there is no God, therefore if evolution is true then there is no God. If there is no God then anything is morally permissable. If anything is morally permissable then bestiality is morally permissable.

See, it's a rather simple progression. You just have to remember that it's not so much a twisting of the logical principles itself (though it is true that creationists excel at that also) but simply lying about what evolution states in the first place.
102 posted on 10/07/2005 1:39:51 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: connectthedots
Using your logic, the fact that there are no unicorns that exist today is not evidence they never existed.

Uh, what exactly is supposed to be wrong with that statement?
103 posted on 10/07/2005 1:41:29 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: connectthedots

Way to ignore all the posts pointing out that you missed the many transitional forms, both in the fossil record and on the Earth today.

But if you'd rather argue semantics, it is not incumbent upon me to prove that there have never been any unicorns on Earth. IDers are the ones making claims that they can't back up with any hard science.

Evolution has evidence to back it up. ID has only feelings and wishful thinking.


104 posted on 10/07/2005 1:43:00 PM PDT by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Dimensio

LOL.


105 posted on 10/07/2005 1:43:15 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138; Michael_Michaelangelo

a very interesting article by Behe at the link you provided. I do have one question for you. Why would you ever think that this article reflects poorly on Behe?

I would suggest that if Behe is as articulate on these matters during the trial, he is going to come across very well for the defendants. Even thugh i have nevewr read this particular article by Behe - I did read his book - his reasoning for ID, and against evolution, is very similar to what I have been stating; but then I'm a really smart guy.


106 posted on 10/07/2005 1:46:43 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: highball
Evolution has evidence to back it up. ID has only feelings and wishful thinking.

Evolutionists have been put in a position of having to 'creating' explanations to fill in gaps for which they cannot provide evidence. It's called speculation.

107 posted on 10/07/2005 1:50:02 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: Dimensio

obviously, I failed to gain sufficient enlightenment from the contemplation of my toenails to divine their reasoning.
I still can't follow it.
I must turn to the Holiest of Holies, and seek wisdom from my navel lint.


108 posted on 10/07/2005 1:54:15 PM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: connectthedots
Why would you ever think that this article reflects poorly on Behe?

Since it was written BY Behe, I wouldn't expect it to reflect poorly on him.

I don't play the quote mining game, and I wish to argue against the best case that can be made for my opponent.

Behe does not appear to be a young earth creationist, nor does his current position appear to differ much from mainstream science. If he wants to believe the game of life was set up at the moment of creation, I am not going to oppose his belief or ridicule him.

Such a belief, however, has no effect on the findings or conduct of science. It has no impact on the accepted age of the earth, no on common descent. It has no discernable impact on Darwinian evolution, except to say that the cards were rigged from the beginning.

A theory that has no impact on current practices and which predicts nothing different from current expectations is something of a hollow shell.

109 posted on 10/07/2005 1:56:13 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: connectthedots
I did read his book - his reasoning for ID, and against evolution, is very similar to what I have been stating; but then I'm a really smart guy.

Like ID, the evidence to support the claim is very hard to see...

110 posted on 10/07/2005 1:57:03 PM PDT by blowfish
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To: connectthedots
Say, are you the same connectthedots who was here just a few days ago asking all those same questions and ignoring all the answers to them?
111 posted on 10/07/2005 1:59:08 PM PDT by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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To: js1138
I thought this thread was about ID, not religion. Why don't the ID advocates explain themselves to these people?

Because the entire modus operandi of the ID movement is predicated on not clarifying this blurry zone. The whole idea of being able to peacably meld science & religion into a nice package has a lot of popular appeal. I think it's incredibly appealing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work - and those of us who are left realizing the constraints of the scientific method are stuck looking like atheistic pessimists, much like the physician who is ignored by the villagers when the snake-oil salesmen rolls through town in his colorful carriage...

112 posted on 10/07/2005 2:01:44 PM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
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To: mlc9852
Transition from what to what?

From monkey to monkeygirl.

113 posted on 10/07/2005 2:02:08 PM PDT by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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To: js1138

No this thread isn't about ID. ID never got out of bed. The fight in the kitchen is over wether or not ID has a right to breathe. The pitchfork crowd is afraid someone that reads a bible may find some comfort in the debate. Hence, slurs and more slurs. The debate may end on this thread but it will go on in our society.
there are lots of people that find the debate imminently interesting and relevant to their existence and don't want it controlled either by old testament creationists, or the people that are so full of hatred for them.


114 posted on 10/07/2005 2:04:24 PM PDT by ronnieb
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To: shuckmaster; connectthedots
Say, are you the same connectthedots who was here just a few days ago asking all those same questions and ignoring all the answers to them?

Must be.

Did the previous connectthedots keep repeating "there is no evidence for evolution" while ignoring all the posts showing the evidence for evolution?

115 posted on 10/07/2005 2:05:34 PM PDT by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: shuckmaster
You mean the answers laced with words like "possibly", "probably, "likely", etc?

And today, there are evolutionists who acknowledge that absence of tranistional fossils and at the same time claim that all currently living species are 'transitional' life forms.

Claims of proof a very few small transitional fossils is speculation, especially when one considers that there ought to be thousands of them, especially if all life forms today are 'transitional'. How would anyone know they are 'transitinal'?

116 posted on 10/07/2005 2:10:32 PM PDT by connectthedots
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To: connectthedots
Using your logic, the fact that there are no unicorns that exist today is not evidence they never existed.

Wrong on both counts. I know several people who have unicorns sitting on their book cases and knick-knack shelves.

117 posted on 10/07/2005 2:10:42 PM PDT by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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To: connectthedots
" And today, there are evolutionists who acknowledge that absence of tranistional fossils..."

Transitional of what? Transitional between species? Family? Order? Kingdom? Above the species level NO evolutionist has denied the abundant evidence of transitionals. I know that Punk-eeks like Gould are constantly misquoted as to what types of transitionals they find scarce and which they find abundant.
118 posted on 10/07/2005 2:15:54 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: connectthedots
if Behe is as articulate on these matters during the trial, he is going to come across very well for the defendants.

Forget it! He's making way too much money selling charlatan books to fools to get up on a stand and swear to tell the truth.

119 posted on 10/07/2005 2:20:34 PM PDT by shuckmaster (Bring back SeaLion and ModernMan!)
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To: connectthedots
And today, there are evolutionists who acknowledge that absence of tranistional fossils and at the same time claim that all currently living species are 'transitional' life forms.

For the last time, there are transitional forms in the fossil record. Read the posts again.

And you have continued to ignore vestigal legs in both whales and boas. Care to explain why your "intelligent designer" puts that transitional evidence in every single one of those creatures?

120 posted on 10/07/2005 2:21:38 PM PDT by highball ("I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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