Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Dover, PA Evolution Trial [daily thread for 07 Oct]
York Daily Record ^ | 07 October 2005 | Staff

Posted on 10/07/2005 7:23:15 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250 ... 451-457 next last
To: highball

"ID by its very nature requires that we reject all the evidence we find."

If that's your belief, you probably don't know much about what they are even arguing about in Dover. Some might say the theory of evolution makes the evidence fit the theory.


151 posted on 10/07/2005 3:45:59 PM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 148 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
Some people don't think whales evolved from land animals.

No surprise. Almost 50% of people have an IQ measured in two digits.

152 posted on 10/07/2005 3:48:52 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: balrog666

30% believe in astrology


153 posted on 10/07/2005 3:49:59 PM PDT by bobdsmith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
"Some people don't think whales evolved from land animals."

Only those that haven't closely examined the evidence.

154 posted on 10/07/2005 3:51:30 PM PDT by b_sharp (Free Modernman and SeaLion from purgatory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: bobdsmith
30% believe in astrology

Okay, make that below 80.

155 posted on 10/07/2005 3:54:09 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

Evidence is evidence is evidence.

Unless you are the OJ jury. Which is exactly what creationists are. Ignoring obvious evidence (say, the fact that whales walked on land) because it conflicts with your agenda.

Is that how you wish to be characterized?!


156 posted on 10/07/2005 3:59:06 PM PDT by whattajoke (I'm back... kinda.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 145 | View Replies]

To: ronnieb
Powerful keen observation. You have guts for speaking it. I applaud your guts.

Wolf
157 posted on 10/07/2005 4:04:10 PM PDT by RunningWolf (tag line limbo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 114 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
"You refuse to see the evidence in any other light except that which would bolster your theory. Hardly a scientific approach.

I have a challenge for you.

I challenge you to investigate the evidence for the arteriodactyl to cetacean sequence. After you've done so, post a logical alternative to them being transitional. Don't forget to explain the shared diagnostic features, the movement and size change of features, the order of the strata in which the fossils were found, the change in environment that was evidenced in those same strata, the ability to utilize salt water as evidenced in their teeth, and the vestigial pelvis and legs in extant cetaceans.

This is a big challenge. Are you up to addressing it?

158 posted on 10/07/2005 4:12:21 PM PDT by b_sharp (Free Modernman and SeaLion from purgatory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 145 | View Replies]

To: balrog666

And they believe in evolution.


159 posted on 10/07/2005 4:12:21 PM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies]

To: whattajoke
I don't mind how I'm characterized. I just want to pursue the truth and I think that truth leads away from the theory of evolution. I'm not a scientist by any stretch, but I have read enough to know there are differences of opinion and I'm interested to hear both sides. It's an ongoing debate.
160 posted on 10/07/2005 4:14:12 PM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

wit


161 posted on 10/07/2005 4:14:18 PM PDT by bobdsmith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: b_sharp

Nope.


162 posted on 10/07/2005 4:17:14 PM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 158 | View Replies]

To: donh

I will suggest to you that waving the bloody shirt of religous extremism of centuries well gone by, is tiresome.
Automatically writing yourself into that history as being on the side of the good is worse. The 20th century saw the murder of between 50 and 100 million people by secular governments. Governments that swore to protect their people from the evils of religion, among other things. Governments that outlawed religion. Personally I am more frightened by those that hate religion than the religious. I might have felt differently in the 15th century, and differently again in he 12th century, but hey I live in the 21st century. As far as your demands for proof. That is funny you offer none whatsover for you views, you simply defame religious people in the name of an incomplete and highly edited historical perspective. Than you wave your arm and demand the names of ten scientists that have published serious articles with numerous qualifiers supplied by you. You haven't done it and neither will I. In any case your entire response was just littered with bad prose lurid imagery of people being burned at the stake, etc. and isn't worthy of a line by line refutation


163 posted on 10/07/2005 4:18:37 PM PDT by ronnieb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 136 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

Why?


164 posted on 10/07/2005 4:22:05 PM PDT by b_sharp (Free Modernman and SeaLion from purgatory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852
I just want to pursue the truth

Great! Looking forward to reading/watching your progression as a student of evolution! Welcome, mlc9852!
165 posted on 10/07/2005 4:22:09 PM PDT by whattajoke (I'm back... kinda.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 160 | View Replies]

To: ronnieb
I thought I was the only one that noticed that /sarc>

What I have asked (that is never answered) is

Now I ask you.. evo prognosticator, and pertaining to (specifically what I call the cult of of cosmology and evolution).. Do the writings here of (and several of the rest on these threads) represent the best methodology, the logic, the most astute thinking, the core of scientists & science? Or are these things just the world as an evo prognosticator sees it? Or both?

Wolf
166 posted on 10/07/2005 4:29:51 PM PDT by RunningWolf (tag line limbo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 163 | View Replies]

To: js1138; connectthedots
Since it was written BY Behe, I wouldn't expect it to reflect poorly on him.

Not directly, as in saying, "That Behe is a charlatan!" It has been noted, however, that many of his writings reflect poorly upon him in the sense of revealing ignorance of his subject matter, etc.

167 posted on 10/07/2005 4:30:16 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 109 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic
Dembski isn't all of intellegent design, perhaps about 25% though.

Surely more than enough to qualify him as an expert on the question of how Intelligent Design is related to religion.

;-)

Which reminds me, have I mentioned what Dembski reportedly said on the topic?

"Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory," William Dembski, one of the movement's chief proponents, said in a 1999 interview in Touchstone, a Christian magazine that Forrest cited in her testimony.
[emphasis added]
source: http://ydr.com/story/doverbiology/88606/

The only open question is whether or not Dembski was telling the truth when he said that (I discount the possibility that the quote is inaccurate, since the defense surely would have presented rebuttal evidence to that effect were it case, which they haven't.)

As for Dembski's truthfulness about the faith-based origins of ID, all I can say is that while he arguably might have a motive to suppress the connection (to get the subject into schools), I can think of no corresponding reason for him to claim ID has faith-based origins if that weren't the case. What, pray tell, would he gain by claiming that if it were not true?

168 posted on 10/07/2005 4:32:06 PM PDT by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 143 | View Replies]

To: connectthedots
You mean the answers laced with words like "possibly", "probably, "likely", etc?

Science is not religion. It is not discussed in the same terms as religion. Science can be wrong for decades. Nevetheless, it relentlessly converges upon an increasingly accurate model of nature. That's what the course corrections and revisions do. It's worked so far.

Against that, all the dogmatic religions in the world save possibly one--but I wouldn't bet on that and, anyway, who knows WHICH one?--are wrong now and will be wrong forever.

169 posted on 10/07/2005 4:34:37 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: microgood; PatrickHenry
Here's a link I have stored under Feathered Dinosaurs still working as of 7 Oct. It isn't just Archaeopteryx anymore.
170 posted on 10/07/2005 4:38:04 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
.... dogmatic religions in the world save possibly one ....

Ahhhh; you, too, have been touched by His Noodly Appendage!

Ramen! (Arrrrrr; shivver me timbers! Avast ye pasta-challenged infidels!)

171 posted on 10/07/2005 4:40:05 PM PDT by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Quark2005
The side-rippling features on that thing remind me of Anomalocaris, itself a rather odd creature thought perhaps transitional from lobopod worms to arthropods.
172 posted on 10/07/2005 4:40:14 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
Spaghetti white clam sauce again last night. The atmosphere is non-existent, but the food is paysano, the staff lovely and charming. If I get anymore of His Noodly Appendage, Ted Kennedy will one day look at me and say, "Man, you got to start taking care of yourself!"
173 posted on 10/07/2005 4:47:39 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies]

To: b_sharp

It sounds like it would be very time-consuming but also interesting. Maybe someone more qualified than I would rise to the challenge.


174 posted on 10/07/2005 4:48:48 PM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 164 | View Replies]

To: mlc9852

Wrong again. Can't you get anything right?


175 posted on 10/07/2005 4:51:17 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 159 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Here's a link I have stored under Feathered Dinosaurs still working as of 7 Oct. It isn't just Archaeopteryx anymore.

Thanks, but I'm too lazy to revise The List-O-Links right now. I've put in way too much time on the new clickable index. I've noted, however, that my old link is dead.

176 posted on 10/07/2005 4:55:10 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, half-wit, or incurable ignoramus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
I tell ya, everything I do here is pearls before swine ... no offense!
177 posted on 10/07/2005 4:58:15 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 176 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
... no offense!

No, of course not. You're from West Virginia. Gotta make allowances.

178 posted on 10/07/2005 5:03:10 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, half-wit, or incurable ignoramus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 177 | View Replies]

To: balrog666

You are always so serious.


179 posted on 10/07/2005 5:04:22 PM PDT by mlc9852
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 175 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Gotta make allowances.

Thanks for reminding me. Please tell Darwin Central I need an increase in my allowance.

180 posted on 10/07/2005 5:07:02 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 178 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Thanks for reminding me. Please tell Darwin Central I need an increase in my allowance.

DONE!

You may now expect to spend TWO weeks each year stranded on a deserted island with "medved", g3k, and f-dot, instead of the usual one week vacation!

181 posted on 10/07/2005 5:11:51 PM PDT by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
What, pray tell, would he gain by claiming that if it were not true?

Indeed! "Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel" is something Dembski probably wishes now he HAD lied about but obviously didn't.

182 posted on 10/07/2005 5:13:01 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 168 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
Hah! Last year the reservations got messed up and it was Jennifer Love Hewitt, Heather Locklear, and Kathy Martin!
183 posted on 10/07/2005 5:15:29 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 181 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Hah! Last year the reservations got messed up and it was Jennifer Love Hewitt, Heather Locklear, and Kathy Martin!

You're kidding!

Those three hotties had to spend a week on a deserted island with medved, g3k, and f-dot?????

We've gotta get a new travel office personnel at DarwinCentral......

184 posted on 10/07/2005 5:17:43 PM PDT by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 183 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Please tell Darwin Central I need an increase in my allowance.

Sure. The Grand Master is a reasonable man.

185 posted on 10/07/2005 5:19:40 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, half-wit, or incurable ignoramus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
Those three hotties had to spend a week on a deserted island with medved, g3k, and f-dot?????

This kind of thing is happening to me a lot lately ...

186 posted on 10/07/2005 5:19:46 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 184 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
Did the white Persian cat die? :(
187 posted on 10/07/2005 5:20:40 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
This kind of thing is happening to me a lot lately ...

"Say 'goodnite,' Gracie....."

188 posted on 10/07/2005 5:22:47 PM PDT by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 186 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
It isn't even ten o'clock yet! OK, never mind. "Goodnight, Gracie!"
189 posted on 10/07/2005 5:24:18 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 188 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro; js1138; Michael_Michaelangelo
Science can be wrong for decades.

In the case of Darwinian macro-evolution, it's been just over 100 years. It's nice of you to recognize that evolution may be wrong. Maybe we're getting somewhere.

Isn't that the entire point of the trial in Dover; that there is at least one competing idea about how life came to be?

Why are evolutionists so afraid of competing ideas?

190 posted on 10/07/2005 5:25:26 PM PDT by connectthedots
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: connectthedots
Isn't that the entire point of the trial in Dover; that there is at least one competing idea about how life came to be?

No, the trial at Dover is about the Wedge Strategy.

191 posted on 10/07/2005 5:27:40 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: connectthedots
Isn't that the entire point of the trial in Dover; that there is at least one competing idea about how life came to be?

What is science class about? It isn't just anything. It should really be science, or it shouldn't be in there.

There is no theory competing with evolution within science to explain the origin of the diversity of life on Earth. If your idea of a science class has a steeple on it, your mileage may vary.

192 posted on 10/07/2005 5:29:15 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Here's a link I have stored under Feathered Dinosaurs still working as of 7 Oct. It isn't just Archaeopteryx anymore.

Thanks for the link. That Liaoning, China site is a huge find.
193 posted on 10/07/2005 5:49:50 PM PDT by microgood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: microgood
That Liaoning, China site is a huge find.

Yes. Apparently, there were a number of Mt. St. Helens-style volcanic events which created some exquisitely preserved fossils.

194 posted on 10/07/2005 6:14:48 PM PDT by VadeRetro (I'll have a few sleepless nights after I send you over, sure! But it'll pass.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 193 | View Replies]

To: VadeRetro
Have you seen this website? Division of Paleontology, American Museum of Natural History.
195 posted on 10/07/2005 6:30:30 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, half-wit, or incurable ignoramus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

To: connectthedots

I have a better question. What the heck is macro-evolution?


196 posted on 10/07/2005 6:32:45 PM PDT by b_sharp (Free Modernman and SeaLion from purgatory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: b_sharp; connectthedots

" He's been told this before. He's been shown the evidence for higher-taxa transitionals a number of times."

I know, and I never seriously expected an answer. I just think it needs to be addressed every time it's said, for the lurkers at any rate.


197 posted on 10/07/2005 6:33:03 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 149 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry

Illustrations by E. Christman? That's scary.


198 posted on 10/07/2005 6:36:04 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 195 | View Replies]

To: CarolinaGuitarman
"I know, and I never seriously expected an answer. I just think it needs to be addressed every time it's said, for the lurkers at any rate."

As does the fact that we've done our job and informed him many times.

199 posted on 10/07/2005 6:37:34 PM PDT by b_sharp (Free Modernman and SeaLion from purgatory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 197 | View Replies]

200?


200 posted on 10/07/2005 6:42:07 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, half-wit, or incurable ignoramus.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 101-150151-200201-250 ... 451-457 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson