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Nigerian cleared over circumcision death (Ireland)
RTE News, Dublin, Ireland ^ | 07 October 2005 16:12 | RTE News Staff

Posted on 10/07/2005 11:12:54 AM PDT by Murtyo

A Nigerian man accused of reckless endangerment in relation to a home circumcision he carried out in Waterford two years ago has been found not guilty.

Osagie Igbinedion was found not guilty this afternoon by a jury of 10 men and two women at Waterford Circuit Court.

31-year-old Mr Igbinedion, who lives in Kilkenny, left the court this afternoon in the company of his wife Kathleen, who a few minutes earlier had burst into tears as the verdict was delivered.

It had taken the jury one and a half hours to reach their verdict in this case, the first of its kind in Ireland.

The court had been told 29-day-old Collis Osaighe had died from haemorrhage and shock due to bleeding. He had been circumcised a number of hours previously by Mr Igbinedion.

In directing the jury, Judge Kevin Haugh said that they could not bring what he called their white western values to bear when they were deciding this case.

Afterwards, Mr Igbinedion said he would like to continue carrying out circumcisions but will only do so if allowed to by the Government. He said most Nigerians would like to see the procedure being available and done in hospitals.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: circumcision; endangerment; ireland; kevinhaugh; kilkenny; nigerian; reckless; waterford
"In directing the jury, Judge Kevin Haugh said that they could not bring what he called their white western values to bear when they were deciding this case." WOW - speaks for itself.
1 posted on 10/07/2005 11:12:59 AM PDT by Murtyo
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To: Murtyo

Multiculteralism rears it's ugly head.


2 posted on 10/07/2005 11:14:38 AM PDT by lormand (It's a long 3 hours between Rush and Levin)
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To: Murtyo

It is quite possible that the jury made the right decision, for the right reasons. But what the judge said is totally absurd.


3 posted on 10/07/2005 11:17:22 AM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Murtyo
And Europe wonders why it's going down the crapper...in a big,bug hurry!
4 posted on 10/07/2005 11:18:03 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Mount Athos

true, from this report we don't know the details of the case and I agree, the judge saying that was idiotic.


5 posted on 10/07/2005 11:18:51 AM PDT by Murtyo
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To: Murtyo
"In directing the jury, Judge Kevin Haugh said that they could not bring what he called their white western values to bear when they were deciding this case."

Holy crap! What is this world coming to. The unenlightened, third world nations are now allowed to dictate their primative values to the more sophisticated nations.

6 posted on 10/07/2005 11:19:21 AM PDT by Old Seadog (Birthdays start out being fun. But too many of them will kill you..)
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To: Murtyo
Afterwards, Mr Igbinedion said he would like to continue carrying out circumcisions but will only do so if allowed to by the Government. He said most Nigerians would like to see the procedure being available and done in hospitals.

Huh? Does that mean that circumcision is *not* legal in Ireland? I know that declawing cats has been outlawed in England ... have they applied similar logic to circumcision in Ireland? Anyone know?

Agree with the "white western values" comment, btw. They had better wake up over there. Some values -- such as not allowing infants to die avoidable deaths -- are universal.

7 posted on 10/07/2005 11:19:25 AM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (Kelo must GO!! ..... http://sonoma-moderate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Mount Athos
It is quite possible that the jury made the right decision, for the right reasons...."

The guy performed a surgical procedure,without the benefit of a medical degree,on a guy who died! That may or may not be the way it's done in Nigeria,but one would think that an advanced (well,scientifically advanced,at least) nation like Ireland would insist on slightly higher standards.

8 posted on 10/07/2005 11:23:36 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Murtyo

So the judge will have no problem with my prescribing drugs and performing medical procedures on my buddies?


9 posted on 10/07/2005 11:26:16 AM PDT by ibbryn (this tag intentionally left blank)
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To: Murtyo

Judge Kevin Haugh: "Now remember you guys, no bringing your white western common sense to bear while deciding this case."


10 posted on 10/07/2005 11:26:19 AM PDT by Termite_Commander (Warning: Cynical Right-winger Ahead)
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To: Murtyo

Based on the judge's reasoning, I guess South Asians are now free to practice suttee.


11 posted on 10/07/2005 11:26:53 AM PDT by Taft in '52
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert

"29-day-old Collis Osaighe had died" - victim was no infant. Circumcision is not illegal, you just need to be doctor to operate on people there.


12 posted on 10/07/2005 11:27:20 AM PDT by Murtyo
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To: ibbryn

that all depends on your "values".


13 posted on 10/07/2005 11:28:02 AM PDT by Murtyo
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To: Murtyo

I would call a baby less than a month old an infant! 29 DAYS old!


14 posted on 10/07/2005 11:29:41 AM PDT by RockinRight (Why are there so many RINOs?)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Puncturing a daughters ears is also technically a "surgical procedure". If the child dies from a resultant ear lobe infection, is that also "reckless endangerment"?

I'm not equating the danger of both procedures, but just pointing out that home surgery doesn't necessarily equal reckless endangerment.

Does the law require that the man himself believed he was recklessly endangering his patient? Or does the law instead hang on whether a "reasonable man" would believe what he did was recklessly endangering? The law could have been written either way.

How risky is doing it at home, was the fellow just especially unlucky? (this was required by jewish law for thousands of years before modern science) Did he apply anti-biotic ointment or take other sterilization precautions?


15 posted on 10/07/2005 11:39:45 AM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert
Huh? Does that mean that circumcision is *not* legal in Ireland? I know that declawing cats has been outlawed in England ... have they applied similar logic to circumcision in Ireland? Anyone know?

Uhhh... Most Europeans are not circumcised. Never have been. It's more an American, African and Jewish thing.

16 posted on 10/07/2005 11:44:25 AM PDT by Prodigal Son
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To: Mount Athos
So much to say...where to begin?

OK,I'll just ask you this:would you allow a member of your family to have his/her teeth cleaned by an individual who lacked a dental degree or a dental hygienist certificate/ license?

17 posted on 10/07/2005 11:54:09 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Murtyo

"Home circumcision" whould be a criminal phrase, IMHO.


18 posted on 10/07/2005 11:55:23 AM PDT by MortMan (Eschew Obfuscation)
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To: MortMan

"whould" should be "should", of course.


19 posted on 10/07/2005 11:58:06 AM PDT by MortMan (Eschew Obfuscation)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Not all questionable, or even simply bad decisions, rise to the level of criminal reckless endangerment. People die from even simple procedures in sanitary environments with thoroughly certified individuals. Conviction would depend on how the law was written, and the particulars of what exactly took place.

Every parent makes a long list of questionable, and even bad decisions during the course of raising their child. It's not unreasonable for a jury to give a parent the benefit of doubt when evaluating their motives and actions. All depends on the particulars of the case.


20 posted on 10/07/2005 12:00:58 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert
Does that mean that circumcision is *not* legal in Ireland?

It's not done routinely, certainly, and I doubt most doctors would do it, since it's rarely medically indicated.

As someone who grew up in Dublin, I'd just like to chime in that the judge is an eegit.

21 posted on 10/07/2005 12:01:07 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Mount Athos
People die from even simple procedures in sanitary environments with thoroughly certified individuals.

While this could be techncnically true,how often does a healthy young man in a Western country die after a circumcision that was performed by a certified/licensed medical practitioner?

22 posted on 10/07/2005 12:12:43 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Gay State Conservative

A person is less likely to die if they get their ear pierced from a licensed professional.

That doesn't mean the actions of a person who accidentally kills someone by doing it at home, rise to the level of criminal reckless negligence.

If you think about it, parents choose less safe options for their children all the time, rarely with malicious intent.


23 posted on 10/07/2005 12:16:44 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Mount Athos
FYI....circumcision is different from ear-piercing.And an act needn't be malicious to be reckless! An individual who,while acting recklessly but not maliciously,kills another (say,in an auto accident),is likely to do some jail time.Probably not as much as if he were acting maliciously,but some.
24 posted on 10/07/2005 12:27:32 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Gay State Conservative
FYI....circumcision is different from ear-piercing. Are you really suggesting I think they are the same? This conversation is over.
25 posted on 10/07/2005 12:37:46 PM PDT by Mount Athos
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To: Murtyo

Oops, my brain skipped over that one!!


26 posted on 10/07/2005 12:46:16 PM PDT by Murtyo
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To: Mount Athos
Are you really suggesting I think they are the same? This conversation is over.

Agreed...it's over.I'll leave you to consult anyone you wish (qualified or unqualified) to perform any procedure on you that you wish....ear-piercing,circumcision,brain surgery...you name it!

27 posted on 10/07/2005 12:48:47 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: Murtyo; Happygal; Colosis; Black Line; Cucullain; SomeguyfromIreland; Youngblood; Fergal; Cian; ...

But we must respect their culture! < /sarcasm >


28 posted on 10/08/2005 5:36:00 AM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite; Right Wing Professor; Mount Athos
I find this infuriating, but Mount Athos makes a good point about giving a parent the benefit of the doubt. Can't help thinking this is the start of a long slippery slope to multi-culti dogma.

Interesting you grew up in Dublin, right wing. Another freeper with an Irish connection!

29 posted on 10/08/2005 6:44:01 AM PDT by Colosis (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK) IRA = Ragheads)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite
In directing the jury, Judge Kevin Haugh said that they could not bring what he called their white western values to bear when they were deciding this case.

The judge is a racist jerk.

30 posted on 10/08/2005 8:25:20 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
The judge is a racist jerk.

Probably, but this multiculturalism is dangerous - I'm not sure Western society can permit genital mutilation of minors!

31 posted on 10/08/2005 8:32:24 AM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Gay State Conservative
one would think that an advanced (well,scientifically advanced,at least) nation like Ireland would insist on slightly higher standards.

But, that would be using white western values as a standard. Can't have that now, can we?

/grrrrr

32 posted on 10/08/2005 8:33:41 AM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
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To: kstewskis

Western values will do - no need for the white bit!!


33 posted on 10/08/2005 8:56:04 AM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite

Amen!


34 posted on 10/08/2005 8:57:40 AM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite
...and might I add, the fact that this judge brought up the "white" issue clearly states what camp he stands in.

Pathetic, and racist, yes.

35 posted on 10/08/2005 8:59:54 AM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
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To: kstewskis

Indeed!!


36 posted on 10/08/2005 9:06:50 AM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite

As a native Irish woman, I would have to agree that this is the exact sort of stupid multiculturalism that is going to flush our country down the tubes. This news piece invokes in me the same nausea as the piece on Choudury spouting his hate filled bilge in the hallowed halls of Trinity College

PS I also appreciate your tagline - NO SURRENDER!!!


37 posted on 11/12/2005 5:20:21 AM PST by blackbird149 (NO SURRENDER!)
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To: blackbird149; Happygal; Colosis
As a native Irish woman,.....

I have an Irish ping list, would you like to join? Are you still living here in Ireland?

.....I would have to agree that this is the exact sort of stupid multiculturalism that is going to flush our country down the tubes. This news piece invokes in me the same nausea as the piece on Choudury spouting his hate filled bilge in the hallowed halls of Trinity College

Thankfully, Ireland still has time, unlike many other countries in Europe, to tackle her immigration problem, our immigration problem is still relativley new - when our ecomomy went from Third World to First World in the late '90s, the migration pump switch polarity - instead of people leaving in their droves, they arrived in their droves, it's early days but we need to take it on - if the mainstream parties don't do so, Sinn Fein/IRA will hijack the issue next election at grassroots level.

PS I also appreciate your tagline - NO SURRENDER!!!

Thanks, but the credit goes to Eoghan Harris - in one of his brilliant columns, he suggested that Fine Gael should campaign in the next general election with the slogan; "A vote for Ahern is a vote for Adams" - as a 'Blueshirt' meself, I can vouch for that strategy! On a side note I am disgusted that the Fine Gael, once Ireland's GOP, has slipped in liberalism since the election of Garret Fitzgerald!

38 posted on 11/12/2005 6:02:49 AM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite

definitely add me to your Irish ping list! Whereabouts in Ireland are you from?


39 posted on 11/12/2005 12:41:57 PM PST by blackbird149 (NO SURRENDER!)
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To: Murtyo

Difficult to get a conviction on "circumcision evidence."


40 posted on 11/12/2005 12:44:23 PM PST by durasell
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To: blackbird149

I'll add you to my ping list so! I live in Mayo, near the Marion Shrine of Knock.


41 posted on 11/12/2005 3:52:32 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite (~~~A vote for Bertie Ahern is a vote for Gerry Adams!~~~)
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To: MortMan

It's done here all the time by a specially trained rabbi called a moil (sp?)


42 posted on 11/12/2005 3:57:13 PM PST by DLfromthedesert (Texas Cowboy...you da man!!)
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert

National Health Service does not pay for unnecessary procedures.


43 posted on 11/12/2005 3:59:16 PM PST by TaxRelief ("Conservatives are cracking down!" -- Rush Limbaugh, October 13, 2005)
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To: Irish_Thatcherite

cheers!


44 posted on 11/13/2005 4:13:53 AM PST by blackbird149 (NO SURRENDER!)
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