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How a bad U.S. visit influenced ‘Osama’s brain’
MSNBC ^ | 11:36 a.m. ET Oct. 7, 2005 | Daniel Strieff

Posted on 10/07/2005 3:15:11 PM PDT by echoBoomer

Four years after President Bush launched a war to oust Osama bin Laden from his hideout in Afghanistan, many are mystified how a polite son of a millionaire construction magnate in Saudi Arabia could turn into the world’s most wanted terrorist.

According to many experts, a clue may lie in the life and works of Sayyid Qutb, an Islamic ideologue who was radicalized after an overwhelmingly negative experience in the United States and later imprisoned and executed by Gamal Abdel Nasser’s regime in Egypt in 1966...Qutb’s journey to radicalism started in 1948 when the Egyptian government sent the young school inspector to study in the United States.

The time proved to be formative for Qutb, who had closely followed American popular culture and at the time viewed the United States as a somewhat positive influence, especially when contrasted with the European colonialism he had witnessed growing up in the Middle East.

But things started to sour even before he reached U.S. shores — Qutb was repulsed by an American woman’s drunken attempts to seduce him during his sea voyage and, once on U.S. soil, he was shocked at the racism he encountered in the still-segregated country.

Qutb found himself more and more outraged by what he saw as American greed

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: binladen; binladin; islam; jihad; jihadpropaganda; lamestreammedia; liberalmedia; liberalmida; mediapropaganda; muslim; obl; osama; qutb; rop; sayidqutb; sayyidqutb; swine; terrorism; terrorists; ubl; usama
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1 posted on 10/07/2005 3:15:11 PM PDT by echoBoomer
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To: echoBoomer
Qutb

he needs to buy a vowel. and what is this, an apologist for terrorism? I can't stomach that.

2 posted on 10/07/2005 3:18:29 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: echoBoomer

For his next homily...

Why does Satan hate God?....(hint it aint really all the pointy tailed guys fault-just ask him)


3 posted on 10/07/2005 3:20:30 PM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: echoBoomer
I can give you the top 10 reasons Omama I'm Useless hates America:

10. Freedom

9. Freedom

8. Freedom

7. Freedom

6. Freedom

5. Freedom

4. Israel

3. Freedom

2. Women are equal

1. Freedom

4 posted on 10/07/2005 3:21:29 PM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I am SO glad to no longer be associated with the party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: echoBoomer; am

Please correct title to actual one:

"How a bad U.S. visit influenced ‘Osama’s brain’"


5 posted on 10/07/2005 3:22:12 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: the invisib1e hand
“Mankind today is on the brink of a precipice ... because humanity is devoid of those vital values which are necessary not only for its healthy development but also for its real progress. ... [The West] knows that it does not possess anything which will satisfy its own conscience and justify its existence. … It is essential for mankind to have new leadership!”

Could have been written by Nietzsche, or even Hitler.

I find it ironic that these islamo-fascists are repulsed by US "blue-state" culture and ended up picking a fight with the US "red-state" people.

6 posted on 10/07/2005 3:22:25 PM PDT by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: echoBoomer

7 posted on 10/07/2005 3:23:04 PM PDT by xcamel (No more RINOS - Not Now, Not Ever Again.)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

You need to add in their somewhere that we are powerful and that we are infidels.


8 posted on 10/07/2005 3:23:13 PM PDT by NeoCaveman (trust but verify)
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To: echoBoomer

"Returning to Egypt in 1951, he wrote a book, “The America I Have Seen,” in which he denounced, among other things, jazz music and what he called the overt sexuality in American culture, particularly among women."


====


That's it, it's the fault of jazz.


9 posted on 10/07/2005 3:24:14 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: echoBoomer

"Returning to Egypt in 1951, he wrote a book, “The America I Have Seen,” in which he denounced, among other things, jazz music and what he called the overt sexuality in American culture, particularly among women."


====


That's it, it's the fault of jazz.


10 posted on 10/07/2005 3:24:21 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
I find it ironic that these islamo-fascists are repulsed by US "blue-state" culture and ended up picking a fight with the US "red-state" people.

A testament to the irrationality of those who see "red-state people" as the enemy.

11 posted on 10/07/2005 3:25:27 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: echoBoomer

Does anyone really care WHY these Islamist lunatics hate us?

I don't.
They declared war....now let them really experience WAR.

I just want them dead......LOTS of them, DEAD.
If the "good, peace loving Muslims" won't contain or control the bastards in their "religion" -- then lots of good Muslims may experience the same fate as the non-Nazi Germans and non-war supporting Japanese....

Semper Fi


12 posted on 10/07/2005 3:25:29 PM PDT by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn
I find it ironic that these islamo-fascists are repulsed by US "blue-state" culture and ended up picking a fight with the US "red-state" people.

Yeah.

The truth is, they understand almost nothing about this country.

13 posted on 10/07/2005 3:26:21 PM PDT by THX 1138
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To: echoBoomer

Why doesn't MSNBC do a feature on "Why Americans Hate Bin Laden"


14 posted on 10/07/2005 3:26:32 PM PDT by Alouette (Militant Neocon Pundit)
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To: Alouette
Why doesn't MSNBC do a feature on "Why Americans Hate Bin Laden"

Shouldn't this thread merit at least a semi-barf alert?

15 posted on 10/07/2005 3:28:49 PM PDT by THX 1138
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To: echoBoomer

A U.S. Army Special Ops Soldier knocked on Osama bin Laden's door carrying a duck under his arm. Osama opened the door and the following exchange took place:

U.S. Soldier: "THIS is the PIG I've been hunting!!!"

Osama: "HA! You infidel, that is a DUCK under your arm!!!"

U.S. Soldier: "Pardon ME! I was speaking TO the DUCK!!!"


16 posted on 10/07/2005 3:29:27 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1st John 5:4-5, 1st John 4:15, John 11:25, John 14:6, 1st Timothy 2:5)
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To: echoBoomer; All
"Osama - Yo' Mama"

Click to listen.

17 posted on 10/07/2005 3:29:54 PM PDT by mdittmar (May God watch over those who serve,and have served, to keep us free.)
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To: echoBoomer

I quit caring why on September 11th, 2001. I will never modify my opinion. Our venerated congress failed us as Americans. Every last one of the worthless POS's punted to the executive branch. Throw ALL the rascals out.
I remember ABSCAM. Nothing has changed since then.


18 posted on 10/07/2005 3:30:35 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: echoBoomer
Why Bin Laden Hates the US

To confirm that evil does exist.

19 posted on 10/07/2005 3:32:54 PM PDT by EGPWS
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To: the invisib1e hand

Relatives of Qutb that seemed to like America.

20 posted on 10/07/2005 3:35:15 PM PDT by edpc
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To: JohnathanRGalt; backhoe; All

ON THE NET...

http://www.truthusa.com/911news.html
http://www.truthusa.com/911.html

http://www.internet-haganah.us/jihadi/
http://www.jihadwatch.org
http://www.memri.org/jihad.html
http://www.memritv.org


21 posted on 10/07/2005 3:37:36 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

I believe in freedom to worship, but not freedom to use worship places to promote murder, hatred and another culture extremely opposite of America. Therefore, we ought to close ALL Mosques, deport ANY non-US Citizens and build fences at the borders and background check ALL border patrol agents and US Customs personnel! Some border guard here in Arizona was arrested for taking $50,000 bribe to let an RV full of illegals and drugs over the border. Fences are worthless if the gate is the henhouse is guarded by the FOX!


22 posted on 10/07/2005 3:38:20 PM PDT by princess leah (\)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
I will never modify my opinion. Our venerated congress failed us as Americans. Every last one of the worthless POS's punted to the executive branch. Throw ALL the rascals out.

Obviously your disdain for society is "sugar coated" in your statement.

Look at the bright side, your opinion can still be conveyed personally.

23 posted on 10/07/2005 3:38:27 PM PDT by EGPWS
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To: echoBoomer

Qutb was repulsed by an American woman’s drunken attempts to seduce him ........."FAG"


24 posted on 10/07/2005 3:39:06 PM PDT by longfellow (Bill Maher, the 21st hijacker.)
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To: echoBoomer
Its a pity the writer did not expand on this:

Qutb came from a tradition of Muslim thinkers who struggled to make sense of the impact of Western civilization on the Islamic world.

Sayid Qutb, and influential Islamic writers of this time such as Abdullah Azzam emerge from a long line of writers who wanted to take Mulsims back to "true Islam."

For eg, the whole salafi movement preceeds them and they based many of their rants not just on the Koran and hadeeth itself, but on the ideological spewage of notable swine as Ibn Taymiyya (1268-1328) and his warnings against "bidah"...

25 posted on 10/07/2005 3:39:55 PM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: echoBoomer
"It is because of its comprehensive nature that modern Islamic radicalism, using Qutb as a philosophical foundation, must be understood as more than an ideology of hate.... Qutb lays out a road to victory for Islam. This is not just a message of hate for many Muslims. For them, it is a message of hope."

It is a message of self-hatred.

He came from an oppressed society where temptation was forbidden and radically excised in even its merest facets. He came to a land of freedom where temptation abounded, and he loathed himself for secretly wanting and desiring all that he saw. That self-hatred burned in him until it manifested in projections upon the Western world.

He hated freedom because of what it did to him, because he was no longer controlled by his society; instead, he had to control himself -- to set his own boundaries, to make himself refrain from temptation, to make up his own mind about right and wrong.

That is why the hijackers were boozing and whoring it up on September 10th... they could give in to temptation and let themselves wallow in all of that forbidden sin, because on September 11th they were going to bloody the Great Satan.
26 posted on 10/07/2005 3:39:58 PM PDT by Thrusher ("...there is no peace without victory.")
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To: echoBoomer

There is much hypocrisy in the muslim world, just as everywhere. I watched the turn of middle class Iranians after the abdication of the Shah. The "across-the border" behavior of young Saudi Sunnis in the modernized gulf states is inconsistent with their home mores.

Shiites in Bahrain are allowd to celebrate their penitent and bloody Ashuram parades which were forbidden in Saudi. The differences between various Muslim branches is quite extreme.

Can someone more familiar with Islam speak to this?


27 posted on 10/07/2005 3:41:54 PM PDT by BuglerTex
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To: FairOpinion
That's it, it's the fault of jazz.

$30,000,000 and a directive from Washington and we can rid ourselves of this fault. ; )

28 posted on 10/07/2005 3:43:09 PM PDT by EGPWS
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To: EGPWS
Obviously your disdain for society is "sugar coated" in your statement.

I have no disdain for our great American society. I do have contempt for career politicians that allowed the failures leading up to and including Sept. 11th. And then claimed they were not authorized to declare war. Followed the whole charade up with the "report".

29 posted on 10/07/2005 3:45:41 PM PDT by ARealMothersSonForever
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To: echoBoomer
Please do not change the title from that found at the source or post in unrelated topics.

We don't say please the second time.

30 posted on 10/07/2005 3:46:04 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator
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To: echoBoomer

There are Amish in this country that don't like what's going on but they don't blow up buildings and cut off heads.


31 posted on 10/07/2005 3:47:19 PM PDT by Fitzcarraldo
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To: echoBoomer; All

As usual .. the real answer is IT'S ALL AMERICA'S FAULT. If we were so un-perfect .. then he wouldn't have ended up hating us.

I'm sick of this whining about why people hate America. Everything in life is a choice - he chose to hate us - not because of what we were, but because he grew up in a backward culture and he had no coping skills or ability to try to change things.


32 posted on 10/07/2005 3:52:28 PM PDT by CyberAnt (America has the greatest military on the face of the earth.)
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To: river rat
”Does anyone really care WHY these Islamist lunatics hate us?

I don't.
They declared war....now let them really experience WAR.


Yes, we should. If their intentions where understood by more people in the US even people in the DU would give support for this war. I have no doubt in my mind about that.

As it is now MSN has been fighting hard to propagandize the ugly truth.

33 posted on 10/07/2005 3:53:39 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* “I love you guys”)
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To: echoBoomer

Osama doesn't need a reason to hate the US, he's a slime beyatch.


34 posted on 10/07/2005 3:57:28 PM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: echoBoomer

Excuses, excuses!

If you don't like the system, you try to change it.

You don't try to kill it!


35 posted on 10/07/2005 3:59:21 PM PDT by airborne (My hero - my nephew! Sean is home! Thank you God!)
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To: echoBoomer
Qutb found himself more and more outraged by what he saw as American greed.

Another socialist greedy for power.

36 posted on 10/07/2005 4:05:52 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: echoBoomer

OK lefties listen up. We have now heard the feeeeeelings of the terrorist scum, and now understand how they feeeeeeel. The terrorist scum hates American popular culture, so shouldn't it be right to just get rid of it, so we don't make them feeeeeeel bad? After all, it is our fault we got attacked many times right?


37 posted on 10/07/2005 4:16:11 PM PDT by vpintheak (Liberal = The antithesis of Freedom and Patriotism)
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To: echoBoomer; aculeus; general_re; hellinahandcart; Thinkin' Gal; Tijeras_Slim; Petronski; ...
... repulsed by an American woman’s drunken attempts to seduce him ...

Producing the inevitable rage, humiliation, et cetera, and inspiring his invention of explosive chastity belts for men.

38 posted on 10/07/2005 4:18:26 PM PDT by dighton
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To: echoBoomer
"As for American men, he described them as brutish and sports-obsessed, decrying their "primitiveness" when they watched football games, boxing or "bloody, monstrous wrestling matches.""

Ah, those American brutes! They should indulge in less violent sports...like DECAPITATION perhaps!

This article is comical! Where's Saturday Night Live?!
39 posted on 10/07/2005 4:27:16 PM PDT by ryan71 (Speak softly and carry a BIG STICK)
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To: BuglerTex
Shiites in Bahrain are allowd to celebrate their penitent and bloody Ashuram parades which were forbidden in Saudi. The differences between various Muslim branches is quite extreme.

Can someone more familiar with Islam speak to this?

Hopefully, prayerfully, in a generation, there will be no one to answer such questions except the chirping crickets, and the wind, blowing the drifting sand through the rubble and stumps of buildings in what used to be Teheran, etc.

The terms "Shiites" and "Sunnis" might be vaguely remembered as we now may strain to remember Betty Boop and Raggedy Ann.

40 posted on 10/07/2005 4:27:39 PM PDT by Gorzaloon
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To: the invisib1e hand
an apologist for terrorism?

Not really.

It's more a historical analysis of why some people have turned their faith into hate and used it as an excuse to kill for little or no reason.

"The writings of Qutb do not legitimize the killing of innocent people as has occurred in the past few years..."

41 posted on 10/07/2005 4:40:21 PM PDT by alrea
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To: USF

Now this is interesting: http://www.islamfortoday.com/iran.htm

Iran as home to a "full-fledged reformation" of Islam, comparable to that of Martin Luther!

I have to believe that many Muslims must see Qutb, Wahabbi, and such as akin to Hitler, attracting zealots like an addiction.

If he is another madman, and who can doubt that he is, and he has devotees, supporters, and detractors, and perhaps enemies among his people, (Who are about as monolithic as 1930 europeans),then how could anyone say "stop the war", "let Hitler/Osama go", "we can live with him".

Now who is Quisling today? And Lindbergh? And Chamberlain?

And who is Churchill? And Bull Halsey? And George Patton?


42 posted on 10/07/2005 4:42:15 PM PDT by BuglerTex
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To: dighton; echoBoomer; hellinahandcart; Thinkin' Gal; Tijeras_Slim; Petronski; ryan71
"As for American men, he described them as brutish and sports-obsessed, decrying their "primitiveness" when they watched football games, boxing or "bloody, monstrous wrestling matches

What hath Gorgeous Gorge wrought?

43 posted on 10/07/2005 4:46:53 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: echoBoomer

"Four years after President Bush launched a war to oust Osama bin Laden from his hideout in Afghanistan, many are mystified how a polite son of a millionaire construction magnate in Saudi Arabia could turn into the world’s most wanted terrorist."

Who's mystified? OBL is simply following the basic tenets of Islam which have been repackaged with an updated battle cry by Qutb. Islam by definition has never been able to abide any non-Islamic culture nor have competing sects within Islam ever been able to coexist for extended periods. Islam always eventually returns to its jihadist roots and always identifies a new enemy whether it be within or without Islam.


44 posted on 10/07/2005 4:54:33 PM PDT by bereanway
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To: echoBoomer

Had he gone to Europe, the drunken women would have still tried to pick him up. In France at that time, he'd have been beaten in alleys.


45 posted on 10/07/2005 5:14:18 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: GOP_1900AD

I spent about five years working in that part of the world and listened to all these Muslims complain about western decadence. Then every August I couldn't get a flight out because all the Muslims were going on vacation in Europe, the US and Bankok. Guess they needed a little R&R from all that Jihad shit.


46 posted on 10/07/2005 6:09:17 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: edpc
Relatives of Qutb that seemed to like America.

Yes, but were they rushed out of the country after dark on 9/11 on Air Force One?

47 posted on 10/07/2005 6:22:27 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: BuglerTex
I have to believe that many Muslims must see Qutb, Wahabbi, and such as akin to Hitler, attracting zealots like an addiction.

I agree. Ask the Shiites who will still tell stories of the Ikhwan invading (from present day Saudi), smashing the tombs of their saints and massacring them because they were deemed "mushrikoun" in the eyes of the Salafis and Wahhabis. There's a great many tensions and fault lines with the ummah that can be exploited and used to divide and conquer the enemy, but unfortunately, we're often simply left the choice of siding with the lesser of two evils.

If he is another madman, and who can doubt that he is, and he has devotees, supporters, and detractors, and perhaps enemies among his people

IMHO, Qutb and his kind seem very focused, and rationalize their thoughts by interpreting everything thru the quran and traditions and "fiqh" as opposed to "bidah." On the other hand, MohamMAD, the guy who made all this stuff up, and changing it as he pleased (oh, it was the "voices" in his head!), is another story...

As for enemies of the salafis and wahhabis... google "the prophecy of the 72 sects" and try listening to a sermon or two (you'll find some are conducted in English). Muslims (the slaves of islam) need to wake up and understand that Islam will bring them nothing but eternal bloodshed, oppression, and death. Nobody kills Muslims better than their own "true believers" and their names have already been posted on the list.

48 posted on 10/07/2005 7:14:04 PM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade ™ © ®)
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To: echoBoomer

I stopped reading when it said he was offended by lush lawns. These people are truly crazy.


49 posted on 10/07/2005 11:45:03 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (John 6: 51-58)
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To: dighton
Who does this guy think he's kidding? Why don't he just admit that Eric Cartman's costume worked??
50 posted on 10/08/2005 6:21:15 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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