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Father apologizes for son's actions (OU bombing, includes timeline)
The Daily Oklahoman ^ | October 9, 2005 | Nolan Clay and Ty McMahan

Posted on 10/09/2005 8:56:49 AM PDT by MizSterious


Father apologizes for son's actions


By Nolan Clay and Ty McMahan
The Oklahoman

The father of a University of Oklahoma student who died in a bombing has apologized for the actions of his son.

"I truly hang my head," the father, Joel Hinrichs Jr., said from Colorado Springs, Colo.

Joel "Joe" Henry Hinrichs III, an engineering student, died Oct. 1 when a bomb went off outside the football stadium during the second quarter of OU's night game against Kansas State.

The FBI and OU are treating the bombing as a suicide by a troubled loner, rather than a failed terrorist attack.

"I feel obligated to apologize to everyone whose inconvenience has increased, or had worse things happen to them, due to Joe III," the father told The Oklahoman.

He said he wanted to specifically apologize to the Muslim students who were shackled and questioned during the investigation, apartment residents who had to be evacuated, and "the hundreds of thousands of future OU sporting event attendees who will now endure even more rigorous, restrictive search and carry restrictions."

The dead student, 21, was remembered last week as depressed and so mesmerized with bombs that he bought artillery shells on eBay.

Hinrichs started at OU in the fall of 2002 after being a National Merit Scholar at Wasson High School in Colorado Springs.

He was so depressed his second semester at OU that he had trouble going to class and underwent counseling, his father said.

He dropped out in 2003-2004 and worked doing inventories at night, the father said. He returned but lost a scholarship because of his grades.

"Internally, he suffered from both depression and an utter lack of hope in his own future," said the father.

"He could tell that other people were relating around him and even trying to relate to him. He could not relate back. ... My guess is that ... was very close to the root of his problem."

Early warning signs?
The father said his son had been depressed at times in high school, too.

The younger Hinrichs built a bomb out of match heads in an empty tube at age 13 or 14, his father said.

"He was hiding around the corner. It made a loud noise and he brought the broken, open CO2 cartridge to me and had this look of awe in his eyes," he said.

The younger Hinrichs also regularly bought inert artillery shells over eBay, his father said.

"Like all little boys, he has an interest in things that go bang. ... He just took it a little farther than most. ... He showed them to me, 'Look at this, dad,'" he said.

He got in trouble at the end of the eighth grade in Illinois for bringing a 3-foot metal handle to school, The Oklahoman confirmed.

The younger Hinrichs spent six weeks on house arrest, wearing an ankle bracelet, and then spent ninth grade in an alternative school.

Still, there were few outward signs he was suicidal. His last e-mail to his father, Sept. 14, was about his father's offer of a Subaru to drive.

"Does the Subaru get good mileage? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it," the younger Hinrichs wrote.

OU President David Boren described the student as a loner with emotional difficulties and personal problems. Classmates said he was different and had been struggling again with his grades.

"He was really quiet, didn't really interact with any of the other students," said Garrett Jones, a Tulsa junior who had engineering classes with Hinrichs.

Jones, 21, said Hinrichs was different in his manner and clothing.

"He wore this little green vest all the time. It was really weird. ... You could look around in a classroom and be able to pick this guy out that he was a little unusual," Jones said.

Another classmate, junior Andrew House, told the OU student newspaper: "He seemed like he was a nice kid. He didn't seem troubled at all. Some people might have thought he was weird, because he knew a lot about ammunition and stuff like that."

Members of an OU organization of engineers, architects and scientists said Hinrichs was quiet, reserved and not very involved in the group.

"The guy liked guns and ammo and he said something about trying to buy some ammo. That's just what he liked," said Paul Lawson, executive director of the Triangle Fraternity, who visited the OU chapter last week.

At meetings, Hinrichs talked about his struggles and successes in class, a new job, trouble sleeping and a road trip to Las Vegas, according to minutes.

He also talked about "missing ammo," building a catapult and carving a club with a pocket knife, according to minutes.

He had his own Web site. It read: "This is Joe Hinrichs' website. He currently doesn't have anything to put on it, but it does exist and it is here."

Officials have said investigators do not believe the student was trying to get inside the stadium or had any help. His father said the FBI told him his son made the bomb out of hydrogen peroxide, a common disinfectant.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: apology; bomb; boren; hinrichs; normanbombing; ou; oubombing
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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OU explosion timeline



Explosives carried onto OU campus


A homemade bomb exploded on the University of Oklahoma campus Oct. 1 during a football game, killing one student. The explosion touched off an intense FBI investigation and left Oklahomans wondering whether it was an individual suicide or if it was intended to be an act of terrorism targeting football fans. Oct. 1

7:30 P.M.

A bomb explodes on a bench just west of George Lynn Cross Hall, the University of Oklahoma's botany-microbiology building, during the second quarter of the OU-Kansas State University football game.

ABOUT 9:05 P.M.

Police detonate a suspicious object found near the first explosion. Investigators later determine it was not an explosive.

University officials prohibit fans from leaving the stadium at halftime. As the football game continues, exit areas are swept for explosive devices. None are found. With about six minutes left in the game, an announcement is made over the public address system warning fans to stay away from the south oval and areas just west of the stadium.

FBI agents start interviewing acquaintances and neighbors of Joel "Joe" Henry Hinrichs III, a 21-year-old OU engineering major who they have tentatively identified as the student killed in the explosion. Some of those interviewed are international students, fueling speculation that the explosion might be part of a failed terrorist attack.

OU President David Boren, who is briefed by law enforcement officials, issues a statement calling the explosion an "individual suicide." He later clarifies the statement to say it was an "individual death," since the state medical examiner has not ruled on the manner of death.

Oct. 2

FBI agents and other law enforcement officials search Hinrichs' residence in the university-owned Parkview Apartments, removing a cache of explosive material and other items.

Boren describes Hinrichs as a student who had "very serious personal problems."

The FBI releases a statement indicating its investigation is in its early stages, but the agency has "no information that suggests that there is any additional threat posed by others related to this incident."

Boren announces classes will go on Monday as scheduled.

Oct. 3

Hinrichs' father tells The Oklahoman his son was a bright, lonely child who had trouble forming relationships and suffered from depression at times. The father also reveals that, as a youth, his son had a fascination with explosives.

Oct. 4

The FBI releases a statement indicating it found "no known link between Hinrichs and any terrorist or extremist organizations or activities."

Boren announces at a news conference that OU will heighten security measures at future games.

Oct. 5

The Oklahoman confirms Hinrichs failed in an attempt to buy ammonium nitrate fertilizer from a Norman feed store the week before the explosion. Hinrichs' demeanor raised suspicions with an off-duty Norman police officer who happened to be in the store. The officer jotted down Hinrichs' car tag number and did a preliminary background check, but the explosion happened before the officer was able to file an intelligence report.

Oct. 6

Boren issues a statement to students, faculty and staff cautioning against any rush to judgment based on race, religion, gender, or ethnicity. He reiterates that law enforcement officials have so far found no evidence of a conspiracy.

Oct. 7

Officials tell The Oklahoman the FBI has completed its review of stadium surveillance tapes and found no evidence Hinrichs tried to enter.

Source

1 posted on 10/09/2005 8:56:55 AM PDT by MizSterious
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To: indcons; PhiKapMom; LibertyRocks

Ping to some more propaganda--I don't think this has been posted yet. I did a search and didn't find it.


2 posted on 10/09/2005 8:58:53 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious

I feel sorry for the parents. They had an emotionally distrubed son; who committed suicide. If that alone weren't bad enough, he did it in a manner that got world-wide recognition; and added humiliation to the grief his parents have to suffer.

I have to give credit where it is due; his father sounds like an honorable man. He has swallowed his grief, long enough to explain the situation to the public. Not many in his situation would have the backbone he has shown.

Again, I hope and pray these parents can forgive what their son has done.


3 posted on 10/09/2005 9:03:40 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: MizSterious

And the spin just spins along.


4 posted on 10/09/2005 9:04:54 AM PDT by VirginiaMom (abortion is NEVER an option!)
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To: Hodar

His father seems an odd fellow--some of the first words out of his mouth in an earlier interview were, "It wasn't a political act!" Seems really strange, and something I've never heard from a grieving father talking about a child's suicide before.


5 posted on 10/09/2005 9:05:50 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious
I thought I heard that he tried, twice, to enter the stadium. Was this incorrect?

Odd way to commit suicide, in any event.

6 posted on 10/09/2005 9:07:08 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: MizSterious

This story is about to go the way of the LAX shooting, I'm afraid.


7 posted on 10/09/2005 9:07:57 AM PDT by hispanarepublicana (No amnesty needed...My ancestors proudly served. [remodel of an old '70s bumper sticker])
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To: Hodar
"The younger Hinrichs built a bomb out of match heads in an empty tube at age 13 or 14, his father said."

The father is admitting his son was building bombs at the young age of 13 or 14 -- why didn't the father step in and do something about it WAY back then (circa 1997)?
8 posted on 10/09/2005 9:08:22 AM PDT by jdm
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To: MizSterious

I thought this was going to be an interview with George Herbert Walker Bush about Harriet Miers, David Souter, and Supreme Court nominations.


9 posted on 10/09/2005 9:08:44 AM PDT by counterpunch (Save the GOP - withdraw Miers now)
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To: robertpaulsen

Eyewitnesses (I think some were ticket-takers) said he did. He wasn't caught on camera trying to enter--but then again, he wasn't caught on camera blowing himself up, either. Depending on the angle of the cameras, etc., they might have missed him.

Also note that they've beefed up security at not only college games, but highschool games too--and odd thing to do if this is just a "suicide."


10 posted on 10/09/2005 9:09:54 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: counterpunch

That part is in code. ;)


11 posted on 10/09/2005 9:10:39 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: hispanarepublicana

It's outrageous, but that's sure how they're trying to steer this story.


12 posted on 10/09/2005 9:11:16 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: jdm

Good question. At least I had the sense to avoid telling my parents!


13 posted on 10/09/2005 9:11:48 AM PDT by null and void (Bringing Faith to the Doubtful, and Doubt to the Faithful)
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To: Hodar

I totally agree with you!



MM


14 posted on 10/09/2005 9:13:52 AM PDT by motormouth (Sshhhhhhh!!)
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To: MizSterious
"He was really quiet, didn't really interact with any of the other students," said Garrett Jones,

Hey, ding ding ding!! What do I win??? Look at this post :

Posted by teenyelliott to I'm ALL Right!

On News/Activism 10/05/2005 8:49:19 PM CDT · 165 of 1,428

Well, I'm sure he was just a real quiet kid who always kept to himself. No one ever imagined he'd do anything like this. (insert video of fat, toothless neighbor here)

15 posted on 10/09/2005 9:17:47 AM PDT by teenyelliott (Soylent green should be made outta liberals...)
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To: MizSterious
Image hosted by Photobucket.com at least McVeys Father didn't make excuses and try to cover up for him... i really respected him for that as much as i don't this loser.
16 posted on 10/09/2005 9:19:02 AM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist )
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To: MizSterious
His father seems an odd fellow--some of the first words out of his mouth in an earlier interview were, "It wasn't a political act!" Seems really strange, and something I've never heard from a grieving father talking about a child's suicide before.

Could a reason for the comment possibly be that 90% of America was automatically assuming that it was a politically motivated attempted suicide bombing?

Bomb Blast at University of Oklahoma (Breaking on Fox) - suicide bomber at OU

17 posted on 10/09/2005 9:19:17 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: Polybius
This was rather early on, before we knew about the Paki roomies and the Islamic connections. Before we knew, but apparently, not before his father knew, because he went into spin mode right away.
18 posted on 10/09/2005 9:21:19 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious
"He said he wanted to specifically apologize to the Muslim students who were shackled and questioned during the investigation"

How about a BARF ALERT?

19 posted on 10/09/2005 9:26:13 AM PDT by RasterMaster (Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade - Merry MOOSEMUSS!)
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To: MizSterious
The FBI tells as:

1. Hinrich tried to obtain ammonium nitrate to commit a private act of suicide.He had to settle for a different kind of explosive, but his intentions were to only kill himself.

2.More than 250 eyewitnesses did not see a missil rising from ground to air to meet up and blow flight 800 out of the sky killing hundreds.

3.There was no 3rd Terrorist involved at the Murrah Building bombing , despite many sources who saw him.

Ron Brown, though a perfect 45 caliber hole found in his skull was only a serendipidous finding.

Fact is I do think I can believe the FBI in these matters. They ask us to believe the unbelievable.

20 posted on 10/09/2005 9:30:59 AM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: MizSterious

Reading the article, you see a depressed young man with few friends -- exactly the type of person targeted by terrorist/Muslim groups as a possible dupe. Using Americans to destroy this country gives them the greatest satisfaction.


21 posted on 10/09/2005 9:31:25 AM PDT by hershey
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To: Texas Songwriter

Correction: I DO NOT THINK I CAN BELIEVE THE FBI ON THESE MATTERS.


22 posted on 10/09/2005 9:32:16 AM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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To: RasterMaster

You're right, I should have included it. Apologies to all who arrived without the barf bag! There is a lot in this article to cause at the very least heartburn if you're looking for truth. I note that two people wrote this (or there are two bylines). I'm wondering if they had to take turns running to the loo and typing the story.


23 posted on 10/09/2005 9:35:25 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: hershey

He's pretty much the same personality profile they had for Johnny Walker Lindh, the shoe bomber, and for that matter Tim McVeigh.


24 posted on 10/09/2005 9:36:08 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious

From the interview:

"His last e-mail to his father, Sept. 14, was about his father's offer of a Subaru to drive.

"Does the Subaru get good mileage? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it," the younger Hinrichs wrote."

This seems a bit odd. Do people that are going to off themselves in a few days worry about their cars getting good gas mileage?


25 posted on 10/09/2005 9:39:38 AM PDT by penelopesire
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To: MizSterious
OU Bombing Video: Friday, 10/7

MSNBC's Rita Cosby Interview with Joel Hinrich's Father and others - 5.50 minutes.

$-Watch Video-$
26 posted on 10/09/2005 9:40:46 AM PDT by flattorney
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To: penelopesire

Especially given the vehicle he was currently driving--Lincoln Towncar...


27 posted on 10/09/2005 9:42:23 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious

Yep..naturally he would be thinking about a car that got better gas mileage than a towncar. It was probably not easy keeping gas in his current car on a student's allowance. Looks to me he was thinking about THE FUTURE of his pocketbook.


28 posted on 10/09/2005 9:46:05 AM PDT by penelopesire
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To: flattorney

Maybe it's just my computer, but that link won't open for me. Says Media Player can't access it.


29 posted on 10/09/2005 9:46:54 AM PDT by MizSterious (Now, if only we could convince them all to put on their bomb-vests and meet in Mecca...)
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To: MizSterious
Does anyone have a comprehensive list of all the (possible) terrorism that has gone on since 9.11 that has been (possibly) covered up? The Queens flight (457?), the muslim kid who flew a small airplane into a building, this, the power outage in Ohio, Phoenix's odd explosions at power plants, etc...? Seems like every time there is an explosion, it is more important to claim it is not terrorism than to explore the facts.

Theorizing that a government is like a vast corporation, if you change the CEO, CFO, CIO, etc every few years, but leave the middle managers and low-teir employees, doesn't it take a long time to get a different result from the new leadership? Since we know with fair certainty that the Oklahoma City bombing, TWA 800, Waco, and Ruby Ridge have been covered up to a degree, doesn't it seem improbable that there have been no successful attacks since 9.11?

30 posted on 10/09/2005 9:48:53 AM PDT by DC Bound
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To: nwctwx; Cindy

ping


31 posted on 10/09/2005 9:50:24 AM PDT by RDTF
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To: counterpunch

Read the story backwards. It's all in there.


32 posted on 10/09/2005 10:01:58 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: MizSterious

>>>Maybe it's just my computer, but that link won't open for me. Says Media Player can't access it.<<<

I just tried the link and the video played fine.

But here is a direct link to the video you can cut & paste into your browser

mms://msnbc.wmod.llnwd.net/a275/e1/video/100/n_ritacosby_suicide_051007.asf

Hope this helps.

PS: As others, I'm not buying the suicide explaination and the ridicioulus position from OU's president David L. Boren on this matter. Let's be honest, the father is not going to admit it if his son "got involved with the wrong type of people", and tried to commit a terrorist act......if this is what actually occurred.


33 posted on 10/09/2005 10:15:42 AM PDT by flattorney
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To: MizSterious

Yep they are making sure Dad gives the correct spin.
I love the line about Hydrogen Peroxide, if I remember other posts it was not common household Hydrogen Peroxide that was used in the bomb. Any one remember?
I think the Dad is taking isolated incidents in JH life to prove how depressed he was. But you could probably do the same in the life of any teen or young adult. Especially if they are under a lot of pressure at school.


34 posted on 10/09/2005 10:17:26 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: MizSterious

Nothing could suck worse than raising a child who combines a major mental illness with a fascination with explosives. Except perhaps having someone around to provide a justification for combining them.


35 posted on 10/09/2005 10:21:50 AM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: teenyelliott

Fat, toothless neighbor bump!!


36 posted on 10/09/2005 10:28:44 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Relying on the MSM for news is like using suppositories for recreational purposes.)
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To: DC Bound

The Admin just came out with 10 incidents that were prevented since 911. 3 of them were airplane hijackings.

They released this list Thursdsay, I think.


37 posted on 10/09/2005 10:32:41 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (Relying on the MSM for news is like using suppositories for recreational purposes.)
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To: MizSterious; doug from upland; Buckhead; All

Do me a favor, could someone let me know what was posted on the screen/door of the apartment on this video:

http://www.newsok.com/video/section/73/#

Believe it or not, some of the videos are not accessable now... hmmmm.

Re: dad. This sounds different from his earlier interviews, is there anyway we could find out if he was ever reprimanded or suspended due to explosions in class/on school property... since he was so in awe of explosives?

Who is the official keeper of the files and diggers on this? I know doug is one... but who else? So I can send what I find?


38 posted on 10/09/2005 10:33:40 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: VirginiaMom
Can You Say White Wash?

White wash is very inexpensive to make and is fairly harmless to goats.

Mix in a large bucket, a five gallon paint bucket is ideal: * 3 large coffee cans of hydrated lime (about 12 cups) * 1 pound or 1 small coffee can of salt (about 4 cups) * 2 gallons of water When you mix this together, mix a little lime/salt, then a little water, then a little lime, etc. It you just dump it all together it's like stirring boat anchor. You should let the mixture sit over night, but we usually just use it right away and have had no problems. The white wash should be fairly watery, remember it's a wash, not a paint. Give it a stir once and a while as you use it. To use the white wash, just get a big brush and slop it on. Don't worry about getting it on your clothes, it washes out very easily. It may seem like it's not covering very well as you paint it on, especially on new pine 2x4s, but it will whiten up considerably when it's completely dry, be patient.

In no time at all, you'll have a brighter and fresher environment for you and your goats.

Pres. Boren and the FBI deny having made the above statement.

39 posted on 10/09/2005 10:40:33 AM PDT by Fog Nozzle
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To: MizSterious

The best part was when the father said "He did it there in the open so he wouldn't hurt anyone"... Hello?

His father has changed his story on his history making bombs quite a bit... funny how his 'friends' (of which according to his dad, he didn't do people... unless they were Paki roommates and going to the mosque of course), didn't know anything about his bomb experiments.

Nothing to see here... move along... no conspiracy here... ignore the bomb squad's two trips and following explosions at the apartment... nothing to see... don't be concerned... move along.


40 posted on 10/09/2005 10:44:17 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: Fog Nozzle

ROFL


41 posted on 10/09/2005 10:46:18 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: MizSterious

This is just the kind of kid our fine muSlum friends would take advantage of. Except not everyone agrees he was depressed.


42 posted on 10/09/2005 10:49:46 AM PDT by AmericanChef
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To: flattorney

Dad said he ran out of solutions... but earlier he said he received emails and he was fine.

Nothing to see here... move along... nothing to look out... simple suicide... move along

sarcasm off?

Wait a minute, he didn't see the changes coming... yet he said several times he was blowing up things since 12 or better? Dad seems a cold fish. What does he do for a living.


43 posted on 10/09/2005 10:51:17 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: jdm

This father is clueless. You have a severely depressed son who can't form relationships and has been fooling around with bombs since he was thirteen...and what do you do with him? Sned him a thoudand miles away to a large campus full of unsuspecting people!

Unbelievable how totally airheaded some parents can be.


44 posted on 10/09/2005 10:52:39 AM PDT by Palladin (America! America! God shed His grace on Thee.)
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To: AmericanChef

You're correct. In engineering also, the preferred course of terrorist students in the U.S. (with flying lessons as a minor). I smell CAIR... though amazingly, I haven't heard them... have you?


45 posted on 10/09/2005 10:52:59 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: AliVeritas

FYI, from the 7th October:

Jihad or not Jihad?
That is the question. A kafir starts to think that the Religion of Peace is involved when the DOJ requests that the FBI search warrant served for the home of Mr. Hinrichs (and his Pakistani roommate) be sealed (That is the question. A kafir starts to think that the Religion of Peace is involved when the DOJ requests that the FBI search warrant served for the home of Mr. Hinrichs (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46701).


46 posted on 10/09/2005 10:56:03 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: MizSterious

"He wore this little green vest all the time." A little bit on the tinfoil hat side, but isn't green the color of Jihad?


47 posted on 10/09/2005 10:58:31 AM PDT by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: AliVeritas
I thought the following was of interest. I think it shows a solitary suicide bomb was not the intention of JH. It is from articles posted on Free Republic. Sources confirmed Tuesday night that at least one of the components in the bomb used by Joel Henry Hinrichs III Saturday night was a product called TATP. Technically, TATP is triacetone triperoxide. Officials confirmed Sunday a cache of explosive material later was found inside Hinrichs’’ residence at the university- owned Parkview Apartments, southeast of Lindsey Street and Stinson Avenue. The FBI, Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents and Norman police’’s bomb squad were removing the material Sunday evening. Police were overheard telling residents it would take ““several trips and could take up to 24 hours”” to remove it all. This Link is to an article about TATP, very interesting. http://www.worldpress.org/article_model.cfm?article_id=2153&dont=yes
48 posted on 10/09/2005 11:02:45 AM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Palladin; doug from upland

Check out the contradictory comments here:

http://matthew.journalspace.com/?entryid=2351


49 posted on 10/09/2005 11:06:44 AM PDT by AliVeritas ("A Proud Member of the Water Bucket Brigade-Keeper of MOOSEMUSS".)
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To: Hodar

I weep for and pray for this father. The pain must be unbearable.


50 posted on 10/09/2005 11:10:02 AM PDT by doug from upland (Stopping Hillary should be a FreeRepublic Manhattan Project)
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