Latest pictures out of China of PLANs work on the Carrier Varyag

CHINA.COM Military Pics ^ | 10 Octoner 2005 | Jeff Head

[Jeff Head]

The PLAN is readying the former Russian carrier Varyag for something. These pictures show the exterior painting now being completed in the standard PLAN surface combatant colors, with the superstructure preparing to be painted.

They have been working on the project in their naval shipyards for over two year now.

[Jeff Head]

For those Freepers following this story.

Lot of effort going into this ship. With the development of their area air defense (Aegis-like) destroyers, and with this new standard paint scheme, I cannot believe it is just to sit around and serve as a casino. Especially since the company that was to be the casino holding company, as I understand it, has long since gone out of business.

[Jeff Head]

fyi.

[denydenydeny]

What happens in Varyag stays in Varyag.

[Strategerist]

Great to see them being dumb enough to waste money on this.

[VRWCTexan]

Thanks for the update and photos -

I agree, unlike Russia, China has no intent to let her ships sit in port and "rust away".

Can you spell: T-A-I-W-A-N

[blackie]

Good stuff Jeff ~ it's right down your ally ~ Bump!

[MajorTom56]

Does anybody know if the Chinese have a short takeoff
naval airframe? The ski-jump bow looks alot like the
Royal Navy's Harrier launcher.

[Petey139]

Like I said in the past, Our Wal-Mart money at work.

[Jeff Head]

From their perspective it is clearly not a waste. From our perspective is is clear that they intend to project power. An operational carrier in the China Sea, particularly near their massive air coverage, would be a serious naval balance factor, particularly as regards any ultimate play for Taiwan.

It will take them years to become proficient and a lot of money...and I bet they will not stop with one carrier. But they have a lot of money to spend and have shown an interest in spending it in a massive military buildup across the board.

[Jeff Head]

The Russians operate the sister ship, the Kuznetszov with full deck carrier aircraft, the SU-27 naval derivitive. They call it STOAL, short take off, arrested landing, using the boy jump and afterburner power for the short take-off.

[Jeff Head]

Taiwan will only be their first objective. I believe they ultimately intend to project power out beyond the second island chain.

[Jeff Head]

Thanks...its just a continuation of something we have been talking about for several years.

[Strategerist]

Here's the list of submarines destroyed by the the Chinese Navy in their entire history:




They'll never be able to defend it from an ASW perspective (and that's leaving out the myriad other ways the thing can be destroyed). It's clearly a waste of money; surprisingly, there's quite a bit of info out there about the debate within the PLAN of the advisability of attempting to enter the carrier game. Having read them I'd have to clearly agree with the anti-carrier guys (from their perspective.)

[Jeff Head]

Sadly so.

[Obadiah]

Great pictures. What's the origin of these pictures? Also, the ship doesn't appear to be in a dry dock, how can it be painted?

[swarthyguy]

They could certainly make life complicated if that thing starts steaming around the Straits of Formosa.

[Incorrigible]

Can't we just send those "missing" military trained dolphins from the gulf over there and plead ignorance as carrier lies on it's side in the harbor.

[snowman1]

They do, the expertise came from the Russians.

[dgallo51]

Will they be able to get that bad boy through the Panama Canal?

[Jeff Head]

Initially it will be a political tool and a show piece to sail around the world...but they will use that time...as long as they have...to develop their skills. They are building a blue water fleet, and they are working the ASW issue. Clealry, with or without the carrier, they have to. They will use that expertise as it decvelops, on surface and sub-surface units to try and defend their carrier.

We dare not underestimate and cavalierly right off such an adversary who has the money and the developing engineering and manufacturing skill...and who is currently using those skills to build modern combatants in an unprecedented numbers.

[Jeff Head]

The thing has been moved around to various docks, including dry dock capability, for the last good while. I expect they painted it while there in the necessary places. The pcitures are coming ot of China...they are not hiding what they are doing with her.

[Jeff Head]

Yes...particularly in the litoral waters under heavy land based air cover....it would make things more complicated.

[OXENinFLA]

Great pics, thanks for the update...

[Riley]

What city is it in? I'll look for it next time I am playing with Google Earth.

[Jeff Head]

hehehe...they simply "got away" from us?

[Andy from Beaverton]

That carrier is only going to be as strong as their pilots and planes. Do we know what upgrades they are doing to their planes to compete against us?

[Riley]

Guss they had to replace this sometime, eh?

http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2005-09-26/20336.htm

[JamesP81]

Looks like good target practice for Navy fighter pilots.

Seriously, I think that 7th Fleet could destroy the entire PLAN in a maximum of forty-eight hours of combat once the PLANs positions were known. The real threat from China comes from its air force which makes up for its inferior technology with its enormous size.

[Jeff Head]

I believe it is the Dalian shipyards.

[Jeff Head]

Well, initial hostilities with them will most probably center in the relatively close-in waters of the China Sea under the umbrella of that large air force. They will not venture out into blue water conflict with us for quite some time.

[Jeff Head]

They are buying and license building a lot of SU-27 modernizations (33, etc.) from the Russians (in the hundreds of aircraft), and they have developed what appears to be a very modern new fighter, the J-10.

[VRWCTexan]

For several years, the Chinese navy has been attempting to obtain aircraft carrier technology, anxious to expand its naval power (3). China already has obtained at least three other carriers for study. They are the Melbourne, Kiev and her sister ship Minsk (4).

• Chinese military have used the flight deck of Melbourne as a training ground (5). Kiev and Minsk have been turned into floating amusement parks and China preserved their names. Surprisingly, the Varyag (ex-Riga) was renamed to the Chinluck.

• The Varyag was designed to carry the naval variant of the Sukhoi Su-27, a fighter the Chinese now produce under license.

http://www.varyagworld.com/

[glorgau]

Yep, at the very least they will build operational expertise. There is nothing like actually operating something to learn "real world" lessons.

[ClearCase_guy]

The real threat from China comes from its air force which makes up for its inferior technology with its enormous size.

Enormous air force implies enormous consumption of fuel.
Enormous consumption of fuel implies enormous tanker traffic to Chinese ports.
Enormous tanker traffic implies dominance at sea.

Not a chance.

[Jeff Head]

LOL! Clearly they are simply moving that twin engined aircraft...but it is funny.

For more info on what they are actually up to in naval buildup, check out the following link:

[JamesP81]

True. Their air force may be the reason why the USN and the USAF have been pushing to field the F-22. Against an air force so large, we will need a superior air-to-air combat aircraft.

This is mostly for show. It will not, initially, add any real substantive offensive power to their military since their large land based air force can reach Formosa anyway. This is little more than a political football for them. If hostilities start, we'll probably task a fast attack submarine or maybe a flight tactical aircraft to deal with it. That part of the battle will likely be anti-climactic. The part we need to worry about is defending our own carriers and air bases from their air power. And that brings us back to the F-22.

[GarySpFc]

The Russians operate the sister ship, the Kuznetszov with full deck carrier aircraft, the SU-27 naval derivitive.

And China has purchased the SU-30Mk for the carrier, which is the upgraded SU-27 with thrust vectoring.

[VRWCTexan]

The Varyag is now moored under high security in a Chinese naval base Dalian after a towage lasted 627 days.

http://www.varyagworld.com/

[Jeff Head]

I agree.

[JamesP81]

Enormous air force implies enormous consumption of fuel. Enormous consumption of fuel implies enormous tanker traffic to Chinese ports. Enormous tanker traffic implies dominance at sea.

Not a chance.

Exactly my point. We would likely use fast attack submarines in their traditional role to blockade their ports. Until recently, China was continental power; they had everything they needed at home. Now their industries are more dependent on trade than they are on home developed resources. We could blockade their ports and have them on their knees in a hurry. All the planes and ships in the world are useless if they have no fuel. Just ask Imperial Japan; they'll tell you.

[Jeff Head]

The defending of the carrier would fall principally to the super-Hornets since the F-22 is not navalized. The F-18 will do the job very nicely though.

It will also fall to the escorts who will most likely have to fight off swarms of ASMs and Chinese subs...their newer Song and Yuan classes are capable diesle/electrics, as well as the 12 new Russian Kilos they have and are purchasing. I believe our escorts would be up to the task, particularly when we go in there with at least two carrier battle groups, maybe 3 or 4.

[Jeff Head]

They are clearly preparing...and we dare not underestimate them. Nonetheless, we have the resources and technology, well in advance of theirs, to handle it if we take and prosecute them seriously. I have no doubts we will, but feel we need to remain ever vigilant just the same.

They know the same things we do and are clearly going to be planning and preparing to try and overcome our advantages.

[sam_paine]

Like I said in the past, Our Wal-Mart money at work.

Question for you. When China buys US Treasury notes, they get a slip of paper from the US Govt, and the Chinese cash goes where?

[Petey139]

My regrets, I have disremembered to add [SARC] And for your inquiry, The money goes back to our coffers to pay for our debts.

[Brofholdonow]

Looks like the "Love Boat" from hell. That ski jump in the front looks inviting. Maybe our fly boys could slide a few iron 2,000 pounders down the slide taking a tour of the deck while dusting all those strange-looking Chinese naval aircraft off the deck.

[sam_paine]

"Here's the list of submarines destroyed by the the Chinese Navy in their entire history:"

Thanks for adding some perspective to the knee-jerking.

From what I've read on other threads, the Chinese are moments away from being invincible because of Sunburn missiles, and their first attempt to operate a carrier (or perhaps a floating rusting casino, not sure) etc.

And simulataneously the mightiest fleet in the world is in imminent danger of being annhilated, even though they have operated dozens of carrier battle groups for decades.

Experience in dominance on the high seas, it seems to some, is less relevant to the equation of naval strategy than rednecks buying lawn chairs at WalMart.

[ChinaThreat]

What will be interesting is when they sail this thing off the coast of California about 100 miles out.

[HHKrepublican_2]

If they touch Taiwan, we'll rip apart that carrier, we should take that opportunity to take out their entire navy...we'll take out a threat that could present itself for atleast my Generation.

[VRWCTexan]

Agreed - the US Navy remains up to the task. However IMO there is a much larger question.

Assuming China makes a move on Taiwan after GWB is out of office would a future US president risk a bloody show-down where the US could (on the one hand) "win" - but at a very high price in terms of dead US sailors, airmen, ships and aircraft...?

Would a President Hillary etc just order the US Navy to "stand-down" without firing a shop...?