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Max Hardcore Offices Raided by FBI; Servers, Tapes Seized
XBiz News ^ | 05 Oct. 05 | Gretchen Gallen

Posted on 10/10/2005 1:05:39 PM PDT by Drew68

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To: Thrusher

He would be a world of hurt if it was proven that any of the models or porn stars on any of his films or website where underage.

The porn industry is very maticulous about this, as they are with aids and STD's tests these days.

While Max's films are nasty, the women in these films are consenting adults and paid for their performances.

Most pron stars are part time prostitutes as well.

While I easily choose not to view Max's stuff because it does nothing for me, I don't like the government getting involved in this, unless, Max did have non-adults involved in his material.


51 posted on 10/10/2005 1:46:03 PM PDT by Proud_USA_Republican
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To: Drew68
However, in Max's films, no effort is spared to make his actresses appear as child-like as possible.

I suppose it's only a matter of time before 3D animation gets so good, you can see a video of any sick thing you can imagine. What to do then. How about a chillingly lifelike digital cartoon of child rape? It will happen. What then? Just a weird, weird area to get into.

I used to draw cartoons. One time I drew a pretty raunchy one that I thought was funny. It had a woman--let me try to be careful here--receiving a male sheep, who might have been acting like a dog, if you get my meaning. The caption read "Mary had a little lamb." Should I have gotten busted for beastiality?

52 posted on 10/10/2005 1:48:00 PM PDT by Huck ("I'm calling a moratorium on Miers/Bush/GOP bashing--but it won't be easy (thanks tex))
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To: Dead Corpse
The FedGov has LIMITED powers and duties.

This is a public health issue. Urinating on other people is against the law. Anal sex with multiple partners lead to AIDS. If the feds don't get Max Hardcore first, then communicable diseases surely will. I'm hoping on the latter.

53 posted on 10/10/2005 1:48:23 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: Huck

As is often said, maintaining free speech requires defending speech with which you object.


54 posted on 10/10/2005 1:48:47 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: MeneMeneTekelUpharsin
He would be hung tomorrow in my world.

Poor choice of words.

55 posted on 10/10/2005 1:49:17 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: Huck
I remember reading statistics on % of hotel guests who access porn from their rooms, and it was over 50%, as I recall. I think the story had to do with Rupert Murdoch, because he peddles that stuff to hotels everywhere.

I remember reading about some jurisdiction that went after the local video rental place for violating "community standards" for obscenity. The store owner simply said that he'd offer into evidence the names of all his customers who rented porn from him to show that a large segment of the community were, in fact, consumers of his offerings. The case was hastily dropped.

56 posted on 10/10/2005 1:49:26 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

But what to do when they aren't really children, and they aren't really dying? What to do when it's all fictional? And how about when it becomes all digitized--no real people involved? I know this stuff is plainly what it is, but I still don't like the fed gubmint deciding what i can see, read, hear, think.


57 posted on 10/10/2005 1:50:01 PM PDT by Huck ("I'm calling a moratorium on Miers/Bush/GOP bashing--but it won't be easy (thanks tex))
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To: Dead Corpse

So all he needs is a good lawyer to point this out to prosecutors and it's a walk.


58 posted on 10/10/2005 1:50:24 PM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
This isn't porn, this is legalized snuff child pornography masquerading as "art."

Being that no children are involved, it is not child porn.

59 posted on 10/10/2005 1:50:29 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Urinating on other people is against the law.

Don't think so. Got a citation?

60 posted on 10/10/2005 1:51:07 PM PDT by Heyworth
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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: DTogo
Has the ACLU stepped up to provide Max's legal defense for free yet?

Are you kidding? The adult industry already employs legions of the best lawyers money can buy.

62 posted on 10/10/2005 1:53:52 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Heyworth

lol. I'll bet it was. I just don't like thought crime. I don't know about where you live, but where I live, the average corporate stooge male, married or not, gawks at anything female under 140# and spends half their lunchbreak talking about what they'd do to them, what they did to them, or what someone else supposedly did to them. (The remainder is spent on fantasy sports leagues.) Ppl have lustful, filthy thoughts all the time, as far as I can tell. You can't sweep it under the rug. Well, actually, that's all you can do. Keep it off Main St.


63 posted on 10/10/2005 1:54:26 PM PDT by Huck ("I'm calling a moratorium on Miers/Bush/GOP bashing--but it won't be easy (thanks tex))
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To: AntiGuv
Here's a Wikipedia summary of his work: Max Hardcore.

Thanks for the link. The one I found was in the rotten.com archives and was wholly inappropriate for this site.

64 posted on 10/10/2005 1:55:41 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Proud_USA_Republican
While I easily choose not to view Max's stuff because it does nothing for me, I don't like the government getting involved in this, unless, Max did have non-adults involved in his material.

Look, I agree that the goobermint should leave porn alone too. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. You'd think the porn industry would develop some "morals," so to speak, so that their material doesn't cross over into snuff filmmaking.

I'm all for raising the age of adult performers to 21 for starters, as most states require you to be 21 to purchase adult materials through the mail or online anyway.

65 posted on 10/10/2005 1:56:49 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: Phantom Lord

Golden shower? don't tell me. another Hallmark Holiday event? A celebration for a newly minted senior at Dennys? I give up.













/sarcasm


66 posted on 10/10/2005 1:57:48 PM PDT by kinghorse
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I've never understood the kind of person who finds violent sex films like this exciting. Mainstream porn is one thing, but the sick garbage this guy puts out is seriously disturbing and makes me wonder about the mental health of the people who buy this crap.


67 posted on 10/10/2005 1:57:51 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Darwinism is a belief in the meaninglessness of existence - R. Kirk)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
A lot of people do things to themselves that they shouldn't. Do you really want the government to have that much power? If this is a "health" issue, then why not outlaw fatty foods and make daily exercize mandatory?

Is that really the kind of country you want to live in?

68 posted on 10/10/2005 1:58:03 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
I'm all for raising the age of adult performers to 21 for starters, as most states require you to be 21 to purchase adult materials through the mail or online anyway

Since I don't buy my material online or from catalogs, I always assumed one had to be 18. What states require you to be 21?

I buy mine in person and try to get a demonstration on how an item works from the girl behind the counter.

69 posted on 10/10/2005 1:58:36 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: reagan_fanatic

I'm with you on that one. Then again, I've never understood foot fetishists either.


70 posted on 10/10/2005 1:59:20 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Phantom Lord
I didn't know that if a wife wanted her husband to give her a golden shower it was illegal.

Specious comparison and you know it.

71 posted on 10/10/2005 1:59:28 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: Dead Corpse
Fatty foods will not be outlawed. They will be heavily taxed.

Unfortunately that day is not to far off.

72 posted on 10/10/2005 1:59:42 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: Owl_Eagle

I don't worry about truthful evidence, I worry about made-up evidence.........


73 posted on 10/10/2005 2:00:48 PM PDT by gortklattu (Dinos are better than Rinos)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Specious comparison and you know it.

You said urinating on another person is against the law.

I and another have challenged your statement. It was not a specious comparison. You made a specific and direct statement. Now prove your claim to be true.

74 posted on 10/10/2005 2:01:15 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: Phantom Lord

Yeah. Maybe we should have at least had a funeral for our Republic so more people would realize it was dead.


75 posted on 10/10/2005 2:01:15 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Not to people who equate wives with whores.


76 posted on 10/10/2005 2:01:22 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
The statement "urinating on someone is illegal" is a blanket statement about an act. Regardless of who is involved.

I challenge EEE to prove his statement correct. Thus far he has not.

77 posted on 10/10/2005 2:02:50 PM PDT by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: Dead Corpse
DC you and I usually agree on the porn threads. All I'm saying is that a line has to be drawn. Unfortunately, porn is really a gray matter. I just disagree with the more radical elements that have infested porn, that's all.

Yeah yeah I know it's your right to view whatever you want in your house and I need to get a life. I'll just go back to watching Ozzie and Harriet now on my turn-knob television set with my 2.5 kids.

78 posted on 10/10/2005 2:04:22 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: Huck

Exactly.

I don't like the FBI being turned into the morality police.

Unless a actual crime has been commmited, I don't want the FBI or local law enforcement involved in this. Period.

If Max takes a 22 year old consenting adult, dresses her up in a cheerleading outfit, and has sex with her on film, its not a crime.






79 posted on 10/10/2005 2:06:02 PM PDT by Proud_USA_Republican
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To: Drew68
. . . he is indefensible. He epitomizes everything that those against pornography rally against.

As porno posts always do, this one brought out the libertarians. And, as always, they brought with them the usual cliches about the First Amendment and the nanny state and so on. The zinger is supposed to be, "Is this the sort of country you want to live in?"

Truth is, the kind of country that treats Max Hardcore material as worthy of protection is NOT the kind of country I want to live in. I hope they shut him down - and shut down anybody else inclined to follow his lead.

80 posted on 10/10/2005 2:07:43 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
All I'm saying is that a line has to be drawn.

A line has been drawn. Under age actors are verbotten. Unwilling participants are verbotten. As are snuff flicks. I would add beastiality to that as an animal cannot be said to be able to give "consent" as it has no rational mind to do so with.

Acts of capitalism between CONSENTING ADULTS.

It might be icky to the vast majority of us, but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. And it certainly isn't the FedGovs job to be regulating it in any way.

81 posted on 10/10/2005 2:10:44 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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Isn't Hardcore some sort of retired marine or something of that nature?


82 posted on 10/10/2005 2:11:40 PM PDT by wardaddy (I can be the next supreme court associate justuce...i swear....trust me)
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To: Phantom Lord
I challenge EEE to prove his statement correct. Thus far he has not.

There is no federal law, but San Fran, Seattle, and other city ordinances all have public urination laws -

http://www.sfgov.org/site/bdsupvrs_page.asp?id=5100

83 posted on 10/10/2005 2:11:44 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: Phantom Lord; Dead Corpse

I'm getting my behind kicked on this thread. I concede that idiots such as Max Hardcore has the right to urinate, defecate, and choke women appearing as little girls.


84 posted on 10/10/2005 2:15:32 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Harmful or Fatal if Swallowed)
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To: madprof98
He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.- Thomas Paine, Dissertation on First Principles of Government, December 23, 1791
85 posted on 10/10/2005 2:15:56 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Drew68
(ed. movie titles ommitted)

Forest Hump? Splendor In the *ss?

86 posted on 10/10/2005 2:17:48 PM PDT by Wolfie
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Not my intent. Just stating my opinion. I don't watch that kind of stuff nor would I ever pay money for it. Consider it a boycott. ;-)


88 posted on 10/10/2005 2:18:26 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: albertp; Allosaurs_r_us; Abram; AlexandriaDuke; Americanwolf; Annie03; Baby Bear; bassmaner; ...
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
89 posted on 10/10/2005 2:18:35 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: Drew68

Ah, for the good old days of the "Fabulous Dark Brothers" and Gerard Damiano.


90 posted on 10/10/2005 2:19:12 PM PDT by Clemenza (Gentlemen, Behold!)
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To: madprof98
I hope they shut him down - and shut down anybody else inclined to follow his lead.

I'm not typically one to say, "There ought to be a law!" because I do believe in free speech and M.H. isn't breaking any laws. If he is shut down, they'll go after Flynt next. Then Guccione. Then Hefner. I don't want to live in a "G-Rated" America.

I am disturbed that Max Hardcore was able to become quite wealthy selling the films he makes. That says more about the country we live in than the simple fact that he is allowed by law to make these films.

91 posted on 10/10/2005 2:20:55 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Drew68
Chicken or the Egg? Some would say that this stuff is what causes "moral decay". I'm of the opinion that the prevalence of such pornography markets are a symptom of a disease and not the disease itself.
92 posted on 10/10/2005 2:26:18 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: reagan_fanatic
makes me wonder about the mental health of the people who buy this crap.

Closet (or practicing) pedophiles who hang out at the mall, loiter around junior high schools and skating rinks and buy YM magazine for their "daughters."

Just a guess.

93 posted on 10/10/2005 2:30:06 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: Dead Corpse
Here's the list helpfully provided in post #50:

Urination
Defecation
Fisting
Choking
Rough anal sex
Gagging

Sorry, I think it's at best silly (and, at worst, intentionally evil) to quote Tom Paine in defense of stuff like that. It's ACLU-think, and in my mind, that is anything but American.

94 posted on 10/10/2005 2:30:19 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
>>All performed on teeny-bopping, middle-school looking girls.

Adults presumably, in the absence of evidence to the contrary/

>>This isn't porn, this is legalized snuff child pornography masquerading as "art."

Snuff requires death. Rough sex is rough sex. There is no evidence that they are even faking death, which Hollywood does all the time.

Is this about opposing porn you don't like, and tolerating porn you do like, or are you opposed to all porn?
95 posted on 10/10/2005 2:31:48 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: madprof98
Ah... so maybe you can point out where in the Constitution is gives the FedGov the power to regulate sex and porn?

Like I said, if you want the FBI to be the porn police, pass an Amendment.

96 posted on 10/10/2005 2:32:00 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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To: Dead Corpse

Porn is a major item in "interstate commerce." It isn't necessary to pass an amendment to regulate it, any more than it is necessary to pass an amendment to regulate the shipment of dangerous chemicals across state lines.


97 posted on 10/10/2005 2:35:12 PM PDT by madprof98
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To: Drew68

Young women who find themselves in his films usually are new to the business and typically flee the industry after being subjected to the painful, wholly humiliating and degrading experience of working with this man.
---

Why would they work for him then? I agree with his statement about wasting our taxpayer dollars entirely.


98 posted on 10/10/2005 2:37:51 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/secondaryproblemsofsocialism.htm)
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To: Drew68

Could anyone really be named "Hardcore?"


99 posted on 10/10/2005 2:38:27 PM PDT by ichabod1 (The Governments #1 Defense against Terrorism is Pretending It Wasn't Terrorism~!)
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To: madprof98
Ah... so you are a "penumbra" and "emanations" kind of person. Regulate is not prohibit. Commerce clause abuse if a major factor in how we got as screwed up as we are.
100 posted on 10/10/2005 2:38:45 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be. -El Neil)
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