Posted on 10/13/2005 6:27:39 AM PDT by LibertyRocks
OUR VIEW: 10/13 October 13, 2005
The FBI broke its silence Wednesday and announced, among other things, that a press conference summarizing their investigation is on the way.
As of now, they are “more and more convinced” that Joel Hinrichs was acting alone when he blew himself up on the South Oval Oct. 1. They have found no connection between Hinrichs and any terrorist organization, and dispelled rumors that Jihadist materials were found in Hinrichs’ apartment.
Still, we know that some people will put a lot of effort into contradicting the FBI’s analysis, facts be damned.
But U.S. Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., confirmed the FBI has told him the same thing.
And OU President David L. Boren sat down with The Daily Wednesday to discuss the situation. He, too, confirmed that it is (and has been) widely believed by the FBI and those closest to the investigation (himself included) that several claims being perpetuated on the Internet and talk radio stations remain unfounded and false.
We agree. We have agreed. Now we know who agrees with us.
The FBI. The president of OU. A U.S. representative.
Of course, they could all be lying. They could be conspiring to set up an elaborate scheme allowing terrorists the chance to escape punishment because ... ummm ... because the last time terrorists attacked the United States it worked out quite poorly for the current administration?
Right.
Unfortunately, there are several things that will never be known about Joel Hinrichs: whether he intended to kill himself on that bench, or whether he was headed somewhere to cause harm.
Causing harm wouldn’t have been difficult. Hours before the game or hours after the game. People were everywhere. But was he trying to? Was he planning to? Did his bomb accidentally go off? We can’t know. No one can.
What we can and do know is what the rumor-mills inherently must ignore for their theories to have any footing at all.
It must be believed Hinrichs tried to enter the stadium. It must be believed Hinrichs possessed Jihadist materials; that he owned a prayer rug, had frequented a local mosque, had all of those evil intentions in his head that can’t be confirmed or denied.
But there is no proof that he had any of those things, and we have put our thoughts about it on paper several times now.
We have provided the public with the information we know. And unless something new develops, this story will slowly fade away, just as it should.
Unfortunately, we are well aware that some people won’t believe the FBI, Boren or Cole. They don’t believe us. For whatever reason, they want to believe these theories, and, with the Internet, anyone can find anything to support what he or she wants to believe.
The conveniently forget the FACTS that have been reported that don't jive with the official story. One must wonder why the staff at OU is so quick to believe the FBI and their administrators. Doesn't anyone teach them to be questioning?
The interesting things I turned up in my investigations yesterday (which I will repost below) point toward the reason the staff at OU Daily is so intent on participating in this coverup. One must of course - consider the source, and I have a hunch who might be participating in the writing of these editorials...
I thin "Spin Alert" is coming to mean "WAAAH this article isn't saying what I want it to" on FR.
Or maybe it's a genuine spin alert. Some folks who were at the game that night, and who live in Norman, know better than you do whether what is being reported is true or not. If you had spent a little time reading PhiKapMom's (and others) posts on this topic, you might recognize this spin for what it is. Then again, it's much easier to come onto a thread and blast people who DO know what's going on, even when you don't.
I agree. The paranoid style in American politics hasn't completely shifted over to the left.
Exactly.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Been a regular ole civil war around here lately. That means we dont all agree.
Careful, your ignorance is showing.
ping for a new editorial out of OU... (SPIN and PROPAGANDA ALERT)
For someone who just signed up today, you sure have made your mind up about Free Republic rather quickly.
And "mind freaker" also got zotted pretty quick too! Kitty Food!
We agree. We have agreed. Now we know who agrees with us.
The FBI. The president of OU. A U.S. representative.
Of course, they could all be lying. They could be conspiring to set up an elaborate scheme allowing terrorists the chance to escape punishment ...
But wait! This isn't three independent sources: "But U.S. Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., confirmed the FBI has told him the same thing."
The "conspiracy" only requires that a single entity lie: the FBI. If the FBI lies to a US Rep, to the President of OU, and directly to the media, that would do it. And we know that the FBI has lied about Waco, OKC, TWA800, and about a host of other matters, so what reason is there to believe the FBI now? They removed the evidence, so it's not like their claim that "no jihadist materials was found" can be independently verified. They made some critical evidence of TWA800 disappear too, and then had the chutzpah to say "there was no evidence of a missile..." and they relabled their own used pyrotechnic smoke grenades as "illegal silencers," so they could both untruthfully deny having used pyro on the Davidians, and so they could add fraudulent allegations of criminal violations of the NFA against them.
1. Did the dead student ever attend a mosque? What is the original (hearsay or not) source that he did?
2. Did he try to enter the stadium? What is the original (hearsay or not) source that he did?
3. Who, exactly, was his roomate? What is the source for that?
4. What was in the bomb? Was it "TATP" ? Was it "the same as the shoe bomber material."
5. Were "jihadi materials" found in his apartment? What is the first-hand source for that?
I have read a few of these threads, but have not made a solid chart of everything. My impression, however, was that all of the answers to the above questions were quite third-hand or further. I would be happy to be led to exact sources.
The most solid info was that the FBI had interrogated the roommate and friends, which you would certainly hope that they would, but the fact of interrogation does not mean that the results were startling. The fact that he tried to buy ammonium nitrate also seemed solid, but I haven't checked lately to see if the officer who overheard it has been identified and confirmed his info.
Information is always better than speculation, in either direction.
If you'd have followed these threads, as you claim, you'd know the answers to most of these. Even official sources have stated who his roommate was, and what kind of material was used in his bomb. Those weren't "third-hand" at all. Witnesses saw him trying to enter the stadium three times--he was turned away when they wanted to search his backpack. Perhaps witnesses aren't enough evidence for you.
The only questions that would seem to be open then would be the mosque question and the jihadi materials. Here, we have authorities telling an investigator that both are true, but these same authorities are unwilling to go on the record about it. Those will have to remain "open questions" until they do, although I have reason to believe them.
As to leading you to "exact sources"--please use your search function. Go to the threads (thoughtfully indexed under searchword "OUBombing") and use your browser's editor to "find" the words you seek--"cheema" might turn up the sources for the roommate's name, for instance. "TATP" might reveal the original sources for identifying the bomb material. (This one should be among some of the earliest threads, because they id'ed both the roommmate and the bomb substance right away.)
But please don't ask us to do your legwork for you. I, for one, refuse.
You are correct, and the FBI lying about an investigation doesn't neccesarily have to have sinister implications. It may be for PR reasons, but it also could be because they don't want to show their hand in where the investigation is heading. Lots of possibilities.
"The most solid info was that the FBI had interrogated the roommate and friends, which you would certainly hope that they would, but the fact of interrogation does not mean that the results were startling."
--- Depends upon the "interogation". Was it an Abu-panty's on the head type of questioning? Was it a bright light in the eyes questioning? Was it a bamboo shoots under the fingernails questioning.
The cynic in me says that it was a Monty Python, fluffy pillows type questioning.
FBI -- 'You really aren't involved in any terrorist activities or now anyone who is no do you?"
Subject -- 'No, of course not'
FBI -- 'Ok, you're free to go'
I agree that the sources for all of these 'facts' need to be verified.
It's instructive to go back to what it's been reported that Rep. Cole actually said:
Mr. Cole said he also asked the agent specifically whether the FBI found the student intended to get inside the stadium.
"He said, 'We may never know. We have no evidence of a plan to do that, but we also couldn't tell you definitively he didn't try to do it and was rebuffed. We just simply don't know,' " Mr. Cole said.
We have no evidence of a plan
We just simply don't know.
Quite a different thing than what subsequent pieces try to promote. The FBI could be dancing on the head of a pin here. Having no evidence of a plan does not at all preclude them having a boatload of other damning evidence.
More Cole comment: Mr. Cole said the agent also told him the FBI found nothing indicating Mr. Hinrichs attended a mosque near his apartment.
Mr. Cole said he asked the agent specifically whether jihadist material was found in the apartment, which was widely reported on Internet sites. "He told me there was absolutely none – nothing that would suggest links to terrorist groups."
Well, which is it? "absolutely none" or "nothing that would suggest links to terrorist groups"? Two entirely different things. And it would appear to me from the context that Cole himself knew that....first saying "absolutely none", then correcting himself with the followup.
The qualifier "known terrorist group," is a loophole you could drive a truck bomb through.
"The qualifier "known terrorist group," is a loophole you could drive a truck bomb through."
If it ain't Al Qeada it ain't terrorism. (sarc)
BTW I see from the news today that chechen non terrorist muslims have launched a series of coordinated attacks in southern Russia today.
Yeh it sort of implies that they know of terrorist groups in the Norman/OKC area, but maybe not all of them?
Bill Hemmer of Fox talking with the editor to the OU student newspaper now. Tres Savage saying that FBI and Boren spoke with reporters yesterday and it is less likely Hinrichs was involved in conspiratorial activities with Muslim radicals and more likely just a loner. Not true (he says) was finding of Muslim literature in Hinrichs apartment and Hinrichs attending the Mosque. FBI saying it will have more to say in a few weeks. Savage says its important to clear up these descrepancies and others. Finishes by saying we're "on the backside of the mountain now" contrary to what some web sites are saying.
My comment: A short, disappointing interview that supports the official story not withstanding evidence to the contrary developed and posted here.
I would think one reason that Islamofascists would recruit people such as JH is that connections between the two would be very hard to find. One of the guiding principles of terrorists groups is the idea of cells. These cells are totally independent of one another and are not privy to the actions of each other. If JH ( who I believe fits the profile of someone who was ripe for recruiting) was approached it is most likley that only those who directly had contact with him would know of it.
I do not buy the lone suicide bit. Color me skeptical but the FBI does sometimes drop the ball.
Drop it or deliberately lose it where it can't be found? It appears the latter is the case here.
At this point, I'm beyond being insulted and angered by their shenanigans. I just laugh at them, at their foolishness, and at their desperation to convince us of something we know is a lie. Methinks they doth protest too much, which in itself shows they are trying to cover up the truth. And they fail to realize that the more they protest, the more that just convinces us that we are right.
Let me let you in on a little secret, OU Daily: You don't have the power to tell me what to think. Accept that, or keep printing worthless editorials I won't even waste the time to look at.
"And OU President David L. Boren sat down with The Daily Wednesday to discuss the situation. He, too, confirmed that it is (and has been) widely believed by the FBI and those closest to the investigation (himself included) that several claims being perpetuated on the Internet and talk radio stations remain unfounded and false."
Key "wiggle room" words and phrases here are:
- widely believed
- several claims
- remain unfounded and false
Wide belief is not unanimous. Several claims are not all. And, it strikes me that these several claims (but not all claims) will "remain" unfounded and false so long as Boren and the FBI are able to maintain plausible deniability.
Darn that google cache function!
No one said she did. But she was at the game, and she has checked some things out, including whether or not there were surveillance cameras at the stadium, where they were, and where they were aimed--among many other things. She was also there when an Iranian girl told about ME men running into the stadium. The authorities themselves verified the type of explosive used (if you had bothered to read any of the threads, you'd know this). The authorities, plus the store clerk, have appeared on camera reporting about the attempted purchase of ammonium nitrate at a feed & seed store.
Next question.
If the media starts going on about a bombing in OK, committed by a lilly-white student who had been quietly recruited by Islamic terrorists, people are going to start taking a look at the first OKC bombing. They are going to start taking a hard look at the Iraqis settled in OK by Bush I after the first Gulf War. They are going to look at the possibility that Clinton covered up Islamic involvement in order to smear "right wing militias"
In short, it would open a can of worms that a lot of Dems and a lot of Pubbies would rather stay closed
So, was there shrapnel in the psycho's bomb?
"So, was there shrapnel in the psycho's bomb?"
Obviously it has not been proven there were nails or other projectiles in the bomb. That determination obviously relies upon the FBI's investigations into this matter - and the investigation file (including the search warrant) is currently sealed upon the request of the DOJ.
There is circumstantial evidence that has been collected by reputable sources that indicates there is evidence of a metallic substance and holes on the tree by the bench. Here are some links to the available information regarding this particular point:
1.) 13 Plastic Bottles Found in Hinrichs' Car; Lots of Small, Round Holes Seen in Tree Near Bomb Site - http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/13-plastic-bottles-found-in-hinrichs.html
2.) "No Holes" - http://acornsfromanokie.typepad.com/acorns_from_an_okie/2005/10/no_shrapnel_at_.html
3.) Rebuttal: "There ARE Holes" - http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/there-are-holes-in-hinrichs-tree.html
BTW: Mark Tapscott is a veteran journalist and states the following in his bio on his site. "I've been a newspaper journalist most of my professional life. Now, as Director of The Heritage Foundation's Center for Media and Public Policy, I teach Computer-Assisted Research and Reporting (CARR) to journalists as a means of empowering greater independence in the media"
He is hardly a "hack" so I would tend to trust his investigative reporting on this matter over numerous other sources out there right now. He has a TON of other related entries on his blog that are first rate, IMHO.
One that stands out is the following:
10 Reasons Why a Hinrichs Terrorist Link Seems Like the Most Plausible Possible Explanation - http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/10-reasons-why-hinrichs-terrorist-link.html
"In short, it would open a can of worms that a lot of Dems and a lot of Pubbies would rather stay closed"
I think you're absolutely correct about that. IMHO that would be the most compelling reason (aside from a real undercover op going on currently) that the FBI would have for concealing the information in this particular case...
Just wanted to point out - neither were the OU students who wrote this editorial... The rest has already been addressed by Mizsterious.
Ping...
Thanks to LibertyRocks for the ping and the reminder.
Might it be my First Edition VRWC Decoder Ring?
Nam Vet
For the same reason camous crime is kept pretty darned quiet on campuses all over, mommy and daddy want to send their little nipper to a safe school. Not safe?--and the exodus begins.
No one would suspect that money would be a motive on the part of the school, far and beyond the take at the gate for football, but for research funds, tuition and fees, and those wonderful grants from private entities, industry, and alumnae.
Nothing to see here, move along folks.
Were there no accounts to the contrary, in this instance credible accounts from people who have been around this site for a while, and a number of official statements which simply do not flange up with the idea of a suicide, much less a lone suicide, then we'd all shut up and be on to writing vanities about the umpteenth tiddlywinks championship, or just carping about the latest SCOTUS pick.
The school paper echoes the administration's official stance? Geee... Whooda thunk?
For the same reason camous crime is kept pretty darned quiet on campuses all over, mommy and daddy want to send their little nipper to a safe school. Not safe?--and the exodus begins.
No one would suspect that money would be a motive on the part of the school, far and beyond the take at the gate for football, but for research funds, tuition and fees, and those wonderful grants from private entities, industry, and alumnae.
Nothing to see here, move along folks.
Were there no accounts to the contrary, in this instance credible accounts from people who have been around this site for a while, and a number of official statements which simply do not flange up with the idea of a suicide, much less a lone suicide, then we'd all shut up and be on to writing vanities about the umpteenth tiddlywinks championship, or just carping about the latest SCOTUS pick.
The school paper echoes the administration's official stance? Geee... Whooda thunk?
The writing style of the above editorial is extremely odd. It reminds me of something in "Brave New World" - (which I haven't read for years, so the details are fuzzy) - but in the book some kind of announcements, basically propaganda/subliminal stuff was fed to people to keep them "docile". This is exactly like that.
Kind of creepy.
What a load of sh**.
I agree... I'm right in the middle of comparing OU's most recent article, to the AP article published by Channel Oklahoma (KOCO-TV Ch. 5) several hours ago. You may remember this is the station that pulled one of their video reports and instead have followed the "official line" as far as this story is concerned.
The articles look remarkably similar. Like they were both written by the same person... I wonder if the AP, KOCO, and OU are all in it together at this point - all the information coming from ONE SOURCE (BOREN?). This is getting pretty sickening... and yes, VERY CREEPY!!!
"So, was there shrapnel in the psycho's bomb?"
No. I have a class across the road from where he died. I visited the site less than 48 hours afterwards. No shrapnel damage to the tree about 20 feet away, nor to the aluminum lamp-post about 15 feet away. I posted photos of the site on another thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1495058/posts?page=4408#4408
They did have a couple of cracked windows, which had been replaced, according to the OUPD cop I talked to at the site.
I was mistaken about the KOCO/AP/OU connection spoken of above - at least in regards to that specific article today... The article I was comparing was published in The Oklahoman, and is cited in the AP article as the source of the comments.
That one got me excited for a minute... thought I might be able to prove a DIFFERENT conspiracy! LOL
Thanks for the reminder and link to your post. I wonder who Mark got his info from? Do you believe the tree you looked at is the same tree that he mentioned in the post at his blog?
There is only one tree that is *right there* and it is pretty large.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.