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Jones v Bush Harriet Miers Lead Attorney 12th Amendment Case
U of Michigan ^ | 10/14/05 | jwalsh07

Posted on 10/14/2005 7:05:23 PM PDT by jwalsh07

Harriet Miers opposition in Jones v. Bush was Sanford Levinson (BA-Duke, PhD-Harvard, JD-Stanford), the "W. St. John Garwood and W. St. John Garwood, Jr. Centennial Chair in Law" at the University of Texas School of Law, author of over 200 articles in professional and more popular journals, co-author of a leading constitutional law casebook, who's also been a visiting law prof at Harvard, Yale, NYU, and BU." (info on Levinson courtesy of Beldar)

Perhaps Sander Levinson, a high powered legal beagle with all the right pedigree who got his butt kicked in trail court, the appeals court and at the SCOTUS where they denied cert:

"This is a person who has almost no experience doing constitutional law, and the one case she is involved with is on a subject almost no one has talked about, at a time of extraordinary partisan interest," he said. "The only thing to infer from this is that she's a good lawyer."

I'd say that Mr. Levinson was a bit understated. :-}

The link is a pdf file.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government
KEYWORDS: bush; jonesvbush; miers; scotus
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For those who remember this was the case arguing about Cheney's Texas residency and the twelfth amendment issue that sprung from that assertion. It is one of the only cases ever argued in that regard.
1 posted on 10/14/2005 7:05:30 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

A good find for your case.


2 posted on 10/14/2005 7:07:14 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: jwalsh07; Torie; Cicero; Howlin; Huck

FYI and comment.


3 posted on 10/14/2005 7:07:35 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Rodney King
My case is to watch Miss Miers in the hearings.

While I've got you all I'd like to make the case that judical hearings are high dudgeon and farce.

I think we can all take a principled stand here and make clear to our Senators that more information is better. I see nothing wrong with asking nominees opinions on cases that have already been decided. After all, the justices on the court already have their opinions on the record in those cases. Why should nominees not be required to offer theirs?

4 posted on 10/14/2005 7:10:56 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

So, if not for Harriet Miers, we would not have Dick Cheney as vice president?

Works for me!


5 posted on 10/14/2005 7:11:09 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: jwalsh07
On this one, Miers had the inside lane. It was not a close case, for both legal and policy reasons. Again, one needs to read her brief to get a sense of her mind at work, and her writing style, organizational abilities, sense of what to highlight and what to downplay, etc.

Good advocative writing in briefs is an art form. It is the most creative and rewarding thing I do.

6 posted on 10/14/2005 7:12:02 PM PDT by Torie
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To: jwalsh07

As I said on the other thread, this case seems to have been handled by at least twelve lead lawyers from several Texas law firms, the Attorney General of Texas, and an Amicus Curiae. But I grant you that Miers has the top spot among the attorneys named for the defense.

I also saw, and praised, your earlier thread concerning important cases she has been involved in.

I don't think there's any doubt that she can coordinate and lead large numbers of bright lawyers in large cases. She was also chosen to act on behalf of Microsoft. What I don't think this actually demonstrates is whether she can write well, put her thoughts in order, or compose a Supreme Court decision in the strict constructionist spirit. She certainly doesn't write very well when she is doing it on her own hook.


7 posted on 10/14/2005 7:12:10 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

Have you read any of the legal briefs she wrote and signed on cases where just her firm was involved? If not, and I have not, because they are not online, making a judgment on how she practices her craft is premature. Both the Microsoft and Disney cases where complex, and raised interesting issues, about which I learned something.


8 posted on 10/14/2005 7:15:01 PM PDT by Torie
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To: jwalsh07
Good find. I wonder why the Bush administration hasn't been trumpeting this as an example of her experience in Constitutional Law?

So far, they've been content to let everyone believe she has absolutely no experience.

9 posted on 10/14/2005 7:20:51 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not Conservative)
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To: Torie

Check your email, pony express just delivered something.


10 posted on 10/14/2005 7:27:38 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

What about this case, or her arguments, should convince me that she adheres to a conservative judicial philosophy such as natural law jurisprudence?


11 posted on 10/14/2005 7:28:43 PM PDT by oblomov
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To: jwalsh07
Two questions would tell me all I need to know about Harriet.

1. Is the second amendment an individual right or a collective right?
2. Do you believe the Constitution is a "living document"?
12 posted on 10/14/2005 7:28:59 PM PDT by Parley Baer
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To: Cicero

Just keeping it real Cicero. Her opponent recognized her ability. I think that says something.


13 posted on 10/14/2005 7:29:39 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Howlin
Very important case. They chose Miers. She won. Thank goodness.

Torie says it was pretty straight forward but these days nothing is stright forward and one of the premier legal beagles in the country was her opponent.

14 posted on 10/14/2005 7:31:33 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07


GOOD post, 07.


15 posted on 10/14/2005 7:31:34 PM PDT by onyx ((Vicksburg, MS) North is a direction. South is a way of life.)
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To: Parley Baer
1. Is the second amendment an individual right or a collective right?

A fair question, since Meirs was in effect arguing that the 12th means something other than what is says, and she defeated its words dimply by claiming the plaintifs couldn't show they were harmed.

In other words, the 12th is for all practical purposes dead by virtue of this case. Kennedy and Kerry can run together, and the 12th can't be used against them.

16 posted on 10/14/2005 7:32:48 PM PDT by adamsjas
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To: curiosity

I don't know. She was also heavily involved in the Florida fiasco as an attorney. Perhaps they don't want to rile the dems?LOL


17 posted on 10/14/2005 7:33:57 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: curiosity
"I wonder why the Bush administration hasn't been trumpeting this"

Perhaps because it raises yet another cronyism argument:
"So, you mean not only was she Bush's lawyer, but she got Cheney into the White House"?

18 posted on 10/14/2005 7:34:09 PM PDT by Edmund Dante
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To: jwalsh07
My very quick read, very quick, but at this point in my life I can scan very quickly, is that the Miers brief was excellent, and superior to the brief of the opposition. The writing is focused and spare and to the point. As I said, she has the inside lane to start, which helps. I will read both briefs more carefully tomorrow, if I can, when my mind is fresh, and comment further, and reserve the right to revise and extent my remarks.

Clearly, the only reasonable conclusion, is that Miers did not actually write the brief. She just isn't up to it. :)

19 posted on 10/14/2005 7:38:17 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
LOL.

You're a much better judge of the quality of a legal brief than I'll ever be.

You give me the straight poop back here on this thread and I'll accept your opinion.

I have to go now, the ark is floating down the hill.

20 posted on 10/14/2005 7:40:36 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: onyx

Thanks onyx.


21 posted on 10/14/2005 7:41:02 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
How good a lawyer do you have to be to prove that someone who is officially an inhabitant of Wyoming isn't an inhabitant of Texas? The case brought against Cheney was a terrible one, I could have won that case and I'm not even a lawyer. I wonder what that "high powered legal beagle"'s win-loss record is. If he takes many cases like this it cannot be very good.

On or about July 21, 2000 Secretary Cheney declared his intent to return to his home state ofWyoming. Ps. App. 3. On or after that date, and before today, he traveled to Wyoming and registered to vote there, requested withdrawal of his Texas voter registration, voted in Wyoming in two elections, obtained a Wyoming driver's license (which, in turn, resulted in the voiding of his Texas license), and sold his Texas house. Id. at 4--5, 16; Ds. App. 2, 7. n13 He advised the United States Secret Service that his primary residence [**22] is his home in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and he retired from employment with Halliburton. Ps. App. 4. He also requested that the United States Postal Service rescind a prior order on file in Teton County, Wyoming to forward mail to Dallas, Texas. Id. at 8. One of his four vehicles is registered in the state of Wyoming and is physically located there. Id. at 5.

What is this decision supposed to prove? That someone who could under those circumstances prove that Cheney is from Wyoming is a genius?

22 posted on 10/14/2005 7:42:18 PM PDT by thoughtomator
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To: Parley Baer
Bork, Miers and the RTKABA
23 posted on 10/14/2005 7:43:44 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Cicero
What I don't think this actually demonstrates is whether she can write well, put her thoughts in order, or compose a Supreme Court decision in the strict constructionist spirit. She certainly doesn't write very well when she is doing it on her own hook.

W doesn't speak very well when he's off-the-cuff. But, W is the kinda guy you'd like to have a beer with, his articulation be damned.

OTOH, John Kerry is impeccable in his speech and grammar. He's just so damned boring and duplicitous that his manner of speaking is incidental to his dreadful personna.

I'm a stickler for proper grammar, but, I'm just a software sales rep here in Texas. Miers writes in a stilted style, but she's in the White House.

I've met lots of folks who are great speakers, but write like third graders. Others write like Shakespeare, but can't utter a coherent paragraph.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg's opinions are written masterpieces, but almost always bastardizations of the law.

24 posted on 10/14/2005 7:44:31 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you're not willing to give Harriett Miers a hearing, I don't give a damn what you think.)
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To: jwalsh07
Give it up FRiend. We all know from the MSM and the 30% of spammers on this forum that Miers is an ignorant cronie, ....
25 posted on 10/14/2005 7:44:32 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: curiosity
"So far, they've been content to let everyone believe she has absolutely no experience. "

The want the bar as low as possible when the hearing starts !

26 posted on 10/14/2005 7:46:46 PM PDT by america-rules
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To: thoughtomator
It doesn't prove anything. It does however destroy the argument that she has never argued a constitutional case in a court of law. I'd suggest you read the briefs. HArriet Miers was the lead attorney for Bush and Sanderson, a renowned constitutional scholar with all the right pedigree was her opponent.

But I'm not gonna bang my head against any walls. And evidently your a wall.

Regards.

27 posted on 10/14/2005 7:47:27 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: thoughtomator
The case brought against Cheney was a terrible one, I could have won that case and I'm not even a lawyer.

Cool! Defend yourself for your next DUI........

28 posted on 10/14/2005 7:51:02 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: jwalsh07
the bulk of Ms. Miers' legal experience is drawn from representing Fortune 500 corporations and other businesses

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/100705dnnatmierscases.1c9f7279.html

There goes the "common man arguement"

29 posted on 10/14/2005 7:52:38 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.)
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To: jwalsh07

Where are the briefs?


30 posted on 10/14/2005 7:53:46 PM PDT by thoughtomator
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To: Decepticon

Never had one and doubt I ever will.


31 posted on 10/14/2005 7:54:20 PM PDT by thoughtomator
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To: VRWC For Truth

Yup, very complicated corporate law crap way above my pay grade. And Microsoft kept retaining her. Kind of craps in the bed of those arguing the woman is a mental midget, no?


32 posted on 10/14/2005 7:57:20 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: VRWC For Truth
There goes the "common man arguement"

Yes. We need ivy league lawyers like coulter, wills or kristol to understand the "common man" and spell argument...

33 posted on 10/14/2005 7:57:41 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: thoughtomator
Puch here and then click on FREE and you can download them.
34 posted on 10/14/2005 7:59:47 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

Please read the article. No earth shattering cases. It refutes everything you say.


35 posted on 10/14/2005 8:01:03 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.)
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To: Decepticon

Tell me how a Corporate Lawyer is "the man on the street".


36 posted on 10/14/2005 8:02:17 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.)
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To: jwalsh07

For those of you who may not have read the .pdf file.

No briefs are included in the documentation. It is thus difficult to judge what arguments on defendants behalf swayed the court in their favor. Ms. Miers was one of three counsels from Locke Liddell & Sapp representing then Governor Bush. Dick Chaney had two firms representing him from Dallas and Washington. Attorney General John Cornyn and two of his assistants represented defendent Ernest Angelo on behalf of the Texas Electors. Lawrence Kaplan, Pro se, represented the defendants. Kaplan also filed an amicus brief on the behalf of a citizens organization for the defendants.


37 posted on 10/14/2005 8:03:00 PM PDT by gpapa (Boost FR Traffic! Make FR your home page!)
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To: VRWC For Truth

LOL, that garbage refutes nothing I've said.


38 posted on 10/14/2005 8:05:04 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

Meanwhile, back at One First Street, Ted Olson was at the Supreme Court representing George W. Bush in the case of Bush V. Gore.


39 posted on 10/14/2005 8:05:16 PM PDT by msnimje (14-Day Free Trial into Monthly Subscription to Times Select, $7.95)
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To: gpapa

I gave a link to the briefs further down the thread. A little slower on the trigger pardner.


40 posted on 10/14/2005 8:05:57 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

One fatal flaw to bouncing Cheney is that Lieberman was not the plaintiff. He was the guy with a real interest in the matter. When the guy with a real interest in the matter is absent, that tends to color things for judges. Just a thought. But in the end that doesn't matter. The policy considerations in this mobile nation, interpretating an archaic and disfavored clause, the reasons behind it now totally dead, is just too much heavy lifting. I look forward to reading the briefs more carefully.


41 posted on 10/14/2005 8:06:46 PM PDT by Torie
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To: msnimje
Meanwhile, back at One First Street, Ted Olson was at the Supreme Court representing George W. Bush in the case of Bush V. Gore.

So was Miers. Uh oh, you didn't know that did you?

42 posted on 10/14/2005 8:06:55 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: VRWC For Truth
Tell me how a Corporate Lawyer is "the man on the street".

Tell me how some anonymous poster on a forum has the slightest clue about "common man" and/or SCOTUS nominees, other than than own opinion.......

43 posted on 10/14/2005 8:06:56 PM PDT by Decepticon (The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years......(NRA)
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To: gpapa

Miers was the lead attorney. But don't take my word for it, email her esteemed opponent Sander Levinson and find out for yourself.


44 posted on 10/14/2005 8:08:35 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Edmund Dante

They don't trumpet Miers' involvement in this case because her argument was about as far from an originalist's understanding of the Constitution as possible. The Wall Street Journal had a frontpage story about this case either earlier this week or late last week.

In her defense, she was just zealously representing her client's interests, so I'm not sure how much anyone can take away from the position she took, however.


45 posted on 10/14/2005 8:09:06 PM PDT by Steve_Stifler
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To: Parley Baer

I like your questions. I would add:
Does International Law have any on your decisions and/or should it have any influence on the cases decided by any American court.


46 posted on 10/14/2005 8:09:10 PM PDT by Seattle Conservative (God Bless and protect our troops and their CIC)
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To: jwalsh07

It absolutely does. Where are Miers originalist and Constitutional opinions? I say again. How is a Corporate Lawyer considered to be a "man on the street"?


47 posted on 10/14/2005 8:09:18 PM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.)
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To: Torie
Yeah, I read some opinions on Volokh's joint about the case and the briefs. One fellow I read agreed with you, the brief was tight and very effective and Lieberman was the guy with standing.

You're pretty good. LOL

48 posted on 10/14/2005 8:10:58 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: VRWC For Truth
How is a Corporate Lawyer considered to be a "man on the street"?

I give up, how?

49 posted on 10/14/2005 8:11:48 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

:)


50 posted on 10/14/2005 8:12:49 PM PDT by Torie
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