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Supernova Storm Wiped Out Mammoths?
Discovery News ^ | Sept. 28, 2005 | Jennifer Viegas

Posted on 10/17/2005 8:57:32 AM PDT by Fzob

Sept. 28, 2005— A supernova blast 41,000 years ago started a deadly chain of events that led to the extinction of mammoths and other animals in North America, according to two scientists.

If their supernova theory gains acceptance, it could explain why dozens of species on the continent became extinct 13,000 years ago.

Mammoths and mastodons, both relatives of today's elephants, mysteriously died out then, as did giant ground sloths, a large-horned bison, a huge species of armadillo, saber-toothed cats, and many other animals and plants.

Richard Firestone, a nuclear scientist at the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, who formulated the theory with geologist Allen West, told Discovery News that a key piece of evidence for the supernova is a set of 34,000-year-old mammoth tusks riddled with tiny craters.

The researchers believe that in the sequence of events following the supernova, first, the iron-rich grains emitted from the explosion shot into the tusks. Whatever caused the craters had to have been traveling around 6,214 miles per second, and no other natural phenomenon explains the damage, they said.

They think the supernova exploded 250 light-years away from Earth, which would account for the 7,000-year delay before the tusk grain pelting. It would have taken that long for the supernova materials to have showered to Earth.

Then, 21,000 years after that event, the researchers believe a comet-like formation from the supernova's debris blew over North America and wreaked havoc.

Firestone said they think the formation created superheated hurricanal winds in the atmosphere that rolled across North America at 400 kilometers per hour (about 249 mph).

"The comet (-like event) was followed by a barrage of hot particles. If that didn't kill all of the large animals, then the immediate climate changes must have," said Firestone.

Firestone said smaller animals could have sought shelter more readily, by going into caves or underground.

The findings were presented at last weekend's "World of Elephants" international conference in Hot Springs, S.D.

In addition to the tusk evidence, the scientists said arrowheads from North America's prehistoric Clovis culture, which went extinct around 13,500-13,000 years ago, Icelandic marine sediment, as well as sediment from nine 13,000-year-old sites in North America, contain higher-than-normal amounts of radiation in the form of potassium-40 levels.

Potassium-40 is a radioactive isotope, meaning a molecule that emits radiation.

Magnetic particles also were unearthed at the sites. Analysis of these particles revealed they are rich in titanium, iron, manganese, vanadium, rare-earth elements, thorium and uranium.

These elements all are common in moon rocks and lunar meteorites, so the researchers think the materials provide additional evidence that North America was bombarded 13,000 years ago by material originating from space.

Luann Becker, a University of California at Santa Barbara geologist, told Discovery News she was not surprised by the new supernova theory, since extinction events have been linked to similar comet or asteroid impacts before.

"What is exciting about Dr. Firestone's theory is that it can be easily tested," Becker said, and indicated she hopes future research will yield additional clues from North American and other sediment layers.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: archaeology; catastrophism; clovis; clovisimpact; crevolist; current; extinction; godsgravesglyphs; history; impact; science
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1 posted on 10/17/2005 8:57:37 AM PDT by Fzob
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To: Fzob

Wow.... interesting.


2 posted on 10/17/2005 8:59:28 AM PDT by mwyounce
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To: Fzob

So, this "global warming" could just continue to be after-effects of that event. I supppose women/minorities were impacted mostly back then.


3 posted on 10/17/2005 9:00:05 AM PDT by theDentist (The Dems have put all their eggs in one basket-case: Howard "Belltower" Dean.)
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To: Fzob

"Distant Star explodes ... women, minorities and North America hit hardest"?


4 posted on 10/17/2005 9:04:53 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Fzob

> ... a key piece of evidence for the supernova is a set of
> 34,000-year-old mammoth tusks riddled with tiny craters.

Seems a bit of a stretch. Plus, the radiation alone might
be sufficiently fatal.

However, I fully expect that an SN will at some time be
linked to a historical catastrophe. And other SNs are
still out there. Perhaps some have already exploded and
are sending nasty stuff our way.

Planetary defense is possible for asteroids and comets.
I'm not sure what we can do about SNs.


5 posted on 10/17/2005 9:05:13 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: Fzob
The findings were presented at last weekend's "World of Elephants" international conference in Hot Springs, S.D.

Wow, the town I grew up in is in the news!!

6 posted on 10/17/2005 9:06:59 AM PDT by marvlus
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To: Fzob

Occam's Razor says there's a simpler explanation. The Indians ate the mammoths, the mastodons, the giant sloths and armadillos. The sabertooth tigers starved. You don't need superheated hurricanes, supernovas firing interstellar shrapnel, etc. And how come this supernova weather didn't hit Asia or Europe or Africa?


7 posted on 10/17/2005 9:07:00 AM PDT by lostlakehiker
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To: Fzob

It's Bush's fault.


8 posted on 10/17/2005 9:09:18 AM PDT by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: Fzob

The article didn't say what part of the heavens the supernova was supposed to have occurred. They usually say "supernova in constellation so and so." Maybe they said it somewhere, does anybody know?


9 posted on 10/17/2005 9:18:10 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

And on a related story, AldoNova is responsible for my partial hearing loss.


10 posted on 10/17/2005 9:19:59 AM PDT by job ("God is not dead nor doth He sleep")
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To: Fzob
And just why would the comet be related to the supernova? Was it traveling at a significant fraction of the speed of light? Was it aimed at the Earth from 250 light years away?

Whatever caused the craters had to have been traveling around 6,214 miles per second,

Don't you just love that precision! About 41,000 years ago but exactly 6214 miles per second! Ah, why can't these stupid "journalists" just leave the speeds in kilometers in the first place?

11 posted on 10/17/2005 9:23:13 AM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Fzob

Thank you! Finally a theory that fits observations! I'll watch developments on this closely. Great catch!


12 posted on 10/17/2005 9:27:14 AM PDT by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: lostlakehiker

But your hypothesis fails to explain why similar large animals continued to survive elsewhere in the world, i.e. Africa. Why did the elephants there and in Asia survive human predation? Regardless, I think this was some darn fine detective work on the part of these guys.


13 posted on 10/17/2005 9:30:02 AM PDT by Liberty Tree Surgeon
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To: Fzob
The findings were presented at last weekend's "World of Elephants" international conference in Hot Springs, S.D.


14 posted on 10/17/2005 9:30:47 AM PDT by Clock King ("How will it end?" - Emperor; "In Fire." - Kosh)
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To: lostlakehiker
"And how come this supernova weather didn't hit Asia or Europe or Africa?"

The muslims were protecting those continents!

15 posted on 10/17/2005 9:31:02 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: job

Champaign Supernova?


16 posted on 10/17/2005 9:31:40 AM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Fzob; blam
Firestone said smaller animals could have sought shelter more readily, by going into caves or underground.

How would small animals, man included, know to do this? Would there have been some type of visible physical manifestation of this event?

17 posted on 10/17/2005 9:32:12 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: Fzob
They think the supernova exploded 250 light-years away from Earth,

If a 10 solar mass star's entire substance were distrubuted evenly over the surface of a sphere 250 light-years across, you get (2 x 10^31 kg) / 4pi*(2.37 x 10^15 km)^2 = 0.283 kg/km^2 or about a quarter milligram for every square meter.

In reality, most of that is hydrogen and helium, not heavy metals, it won't all come at once, and not all of it will escape from the supernova's core's gravity.

Which is more believable, all the large North American mammals were killed by a quarter milligram per square meter of material spread out over years, or the arrival of humans on the continent?

18 posted on 10/17/2005 9:33:06 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (We were promised someone in the Scalia/Thomas mold. Maybe next time.)
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To: mwyounce
Wow.... interesting.

Try "wow, how insane!"

Try applying Occam's razor. What happened 13,000 years ago? The current "native-americans" who came from Mongolia arrived, and quickly hunted all the big game to extinction.

The same extinctions happened, at a different time, in Madagascar, when Asians arrived. So are we to believe, i.e., that two DIFFERENT supernovas can explain that extinction cycle?

Rubbish!!

19 posted on 10/17/2005 9:34:08 AM PDT by WL-law
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To: Fzob
Yeah, I guess all of those bison and elk ran into caves or burrowed underground. So do genetic studies show any bottlenecks in any other species during that same period? This sounds like just another attempt to avoid the obvious explanation is that the Clovis hunters that crossed over into the Americas from Asia during the last Ice Age were very effective hunters of large mammals to the point where some became extinct.
20 posted on 10/17/2005 9:35:15 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: lostlakehiker

Huh! Hadn't read your post when I sent mine -- but good minds think alike.


21 posted on 10/17/2005 9:35:27 AM PDT by WL-law
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To: Fzob
"What is exciting about Dr. Firestone's theory is that it can be easily tested," Becker said, and indicated she hopes future research will yield additional clues from North American and other sediment layers.

Then test it. Until then, it's just an educated guess. Much like many scientific theories.

22 posted on 10/17/2005 9:36:33 AM PDT by airborne (Al-Queda can recruit on college campuses but the US military can't!)
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To: Fzob

Great. Now someone will file a class action suit on behalf of the extinct mammoths for reparations, claiming Bush and Halliburton caused the supernova.


23 posted on 10/17/2005 9:37:05 AM PDT by rightwingreligiousfanatic (www.narniaontour.com)
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To: Fzob; SunkenCiv; RadioAstronomer


24 posted on 10/17/2005 9:37:24 AM PDT by FOG724 (http://gravenimagemusic.com/)
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon
The mammoths and mastadons died aout pretty much everywhere. Do they come up from creative excuses for why they all died out in Europe and Asia like this or is "they were hunted to extinction" a good enough explanation there. If it's a good enough explanation for Europe and Asia, why isn't it a good enough explanation for the Americas?

By the way, elephants are endangered in Africa. It's not the climate that's endangering them.

25 posted on 10/17/2005 9:38:21 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions

Exactly! It was the land-raping, politically incorrect injuns!


26 posted on 10/17/2005 9:46:20 AM PDT by mallardx
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: Bernard Marx

Thank you! Finally a theory that fits observations! I'll watch developments on this closely. Great catch!

xxxxxxxxxxxx

NO NO they just worked the numbers backward to 250 light years.


28 posted on 10/17/2005 9:48:58 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (Conceal Carry)
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To: Bernard Marx

Thank you! Finally a theory that fits observations! I'll watch developments on this closely. Great catch!

xxxxxxxxxxxx

NO NO they just worked the numbers backward to 250 light years.

BUSH IS THE CAUSE



29 posted on 10/17/2005 9:49:36 AM PDT by CHICAGOFARMER (Conceal Carry)
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To: Liberty Tree Surgeon

Actually, the fossil record shows that extinctions happened pretty much everywhere when people first showed up. The large, slow, docile animals were killed off, and only the ones that were either fast enough to elude us, strong enough to confront us (ever seen a pissed off elephant?), or bred fast enough to replentish their losses survived. The giant sloth and armadillo were easy pickings and had lots of meat, so they went first. Larger animals like the mastodon bred so slowly that their numbers simply dwindled under the constant human culling. The previous apex predators like the cave bears and sabre tooth tigers died off simply because we hunted out their food sources. There was nothing left for them to eat other than the faster animals, and the leaner cougars and wolves were simply better suited to that kind of hunting. There's absolutely nothing far-fetched about any of this, so I don't see why it's so controversial.

If you move into a foreign area and have to live off the land, are you going to work your butt off hunting down a fast antelope with a heavy spear, or are you going to kill the tasty sloth that can only run 3MPH?

When humans moved in, we became the new apex predator and we altered the ecological balance accordingly. This is simply the way the world works.


30 posted on 10/17/2005 9:51:36 AM PDT by Arthalion
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To: sasportas

OK so when is there going to be a hollywood action movie about some evil cosmic cloud coming to wipe out life on earth?


31 posted on 10/17/2005 9:52:52 AM PDT by Grig
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To: Fzob

Bush's Fault


32 posted on 10/17/2005 9:53:23 AM PDT by Paul_Denton (Stom ta jora Oom (Translation: Shut the F*** up UN))
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To: Fzob

Hey ... if Superman can get here that way, so can a comet-like body.


33 posted on 10/17/2005 9:55:36 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Fzob

Does anybody find it ironic that the theory of global catastrophy caused by flaming meteors and stoney comets was presented by a fellow named 'Firestone'? ...and co-founded as being the cause of destruction in the western hemisphere from a vanAllen belt like penetration by a geologist named Allen West?


34 posted on 10/17/2005 9:59:08 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: Fzob
6,214 miles a second

That would not impact a mastodon tusk - that would preferate the mastodon tusk.

35 posted on 10/17/2005 9:59:43 AM PDT by sandydipper (Less government is best government!)
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To: Fzob

Don't tell me,...the next World of Elephants international conference will be held in ....Tuscany?


36 posted on 10/17/2005 10:00:27 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: theDentist
I supppose women/minorities were impacted mostly back then.
C'mon, there were no minorities back then. However, women/children were impacted worst. LOL ...
37 posted on 10/17/2005 10:01:31 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: pitbully

ping


38 posted on 10/17/2005 10:01:32 AM PDT by granite (I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.)
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To: theDentist

--" I supppose women/minorities were impacted mostly back then. "--

Yeah - Mastodon women & minorities....


39 posted on 10/17/2005 10:01:56 AM PDT by MainFrame65
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To: blam

Don't know if you had a chance to see this yet.


40 posted on 10/17/2005 10:02:14 AM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: Arthalion
Actually the fossil record doesn't show anything because the dating techniques that are used are unreliable. There is a lot of ASSUME-ing going on these days and very little real science....just the FACTs please.
41 posted on 10/17/2005 10:05:16 AM PDT by Dr. I. C. Spots
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To: piasa

You beat me to it!


42 posted on 10/17/2005 10:10:23 AM PDT by I'm ALL Right! (WWW.ENDOFTHESPEAR.COM - A True Story. In theaters Jan 20, 2006. Click my profile.)
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To: Fzob
This was the first test of the prototype Karl Rove/Halliburton Weather Machine.
43 posted on 10/17/2005 10:11:48 AM PDT by manwiththehands
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To: job
Aldo Nova is responsible for my partial hearing loss.

Hopefully, you have fully recovered your sense of hearing...
and your sense of musical taste.

44 posted on 10/17/2005 10:13:14 AM PDT by Ignatz (Proper spelling unites people, improper spelling unties people.)
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To: Fzob

I just love it when scientist come up with a new "theory". Can anyone do that? If so, how 'bout my theory. There is a God and he created everything. Well, I can't disprove those two scientists but then, they can't disprove my theory either.


45 posted on 10/17/2005 10:16:22 AM PDT by fish hawk (I am only one, but I am not the only one.)
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To: Cvengr
No, but Adam West played Batman. Now there hasn't been any man-sized, crime-fighting bats on TV since the 1960s.....




Hey, you're on to something! Did we have any novas in the 60s?
46 posted on 10/17/2005 10:21:06 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Arthalion
This is simply the way the world works.

One would have thought that this was obvious to any researcher, but I suppose the PC crowd wants to maintain their delusions regarding the Innocent Savages of North America.

M. Rousseau would be proud.

47 posted on 10/17/2005 10:24:53 AM PDT by headsonpikes (The Liberal Party of Canada are not b*stards - b*stards have mothers!)
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To: Fzob
cosmic shotgun fantasy bump.

If these retards found it in several hundred sets of mammoth tusks spread across the entire continent I might have a chance of believing it.

Also if this was true it would have wiped out all large animals at the same time across the planet. Humans included

Supernova debris does not spread out on a totally even wave front. Otherwise SN1987A would have been a giant flashbulb and burned out.At 250 light years there would have also been hard radiation shining well in excess of safe levels for more than o0n planetary roation as well.

48 posted on 10/17/2005 10:29:11 AM PDT by Centurion2000 ((Aubrey, Tx) --- Truth, Justice and the American Way)
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To: balrog666

but exactly 6214 miles per second

corresponds to 10,000 km/sec.


49 posted on 10/17/2005 10:33:28 AM PDT by Fred Hayek (Liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: Alas Babylon!
Here's one from '67...


50 posted on 10/17/2005 10:35:31 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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