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12,000 paid not to work (UAW Union Alert)
Detroit News ^ | Monday, October 17, 2005 | Bryce G. Hoffman

Posted on 10/17/2005 9:26:26 AM PDT by WmCraven_Wk

12,000 paid not to work

Big 3 and suppliers pay billions to keep downsized UAW members on payroll in decades-long deal.

By Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

WAYNE -- Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union.

The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing.

As part of its restructuring under bankruptcy, Delphi is actively pressing the union to give up the program.

With Wall Street wondering how automakers can afford to pay thousands of workers to do nothing as their market share withers, the union is likely to hear a similar message from the Big Three when their contracts with the UAW expire in 2007 -- if not sooner.

"It's an albatross around their necks," said Steven Szakaly, an economist with the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor. "It's a huge number of workers doing nothing. That has a very large effect on their future earnings outlook."

*snip*

source: http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm

(Excerpt) Read more at detnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: ford; gm; jobs; pool; uaw; union
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We the many pay for the lucky few.
1 posted on 10/17/2005 9:26:35 AM PDT by WmCraven_Wk
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To: WmCraven_Wk

and Unions cry because their jobs have been sent to Mexico and China?


2 posted on 10/17/2005 9:28:53 AM PDT by DogBarkTree
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Is someone implying that a union member might be getting paid for not working? This is simply appalling and unheard-of.


3 posted on 10/17/2005 9:29:54 AM PDT by AbeKrieger (Islam is the virus that causes al-Qaeda.)
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To: DogBarkTree
and Unions cry because their jobs have been sent to Mexico and China?

We should look into whether we can pay their folks less to be idle. They could probably also complete the crossword a lot faster as well.

4 posted on 10/17/2005 9:30:44 AM PDT by AbeKrieger (Islam is the virus that causes al-Qaeda.)
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To: WmCraven_Wk
These clown don't understand that the successful parasites are the ones who don't kill their host.The days of milk and honey will very soon come to an end for these parasites!
5 posted on 10/17/2005 9:30:48 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: WmCraven_Wk
Naw, we just buy foreign made cars!
6 posted on 10/17/2005 9:31:12 AM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: DogBarkTree

The "executives" that allowed this piece of crap in the contract should be hung from the nearest tree.


7 posted on 10/17/2005 9:31:16 AM PDT by tom paine 2
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Unions had a place in our society many years ago to deal with obscene corporate greed. But they have been corrupted by socialists and ciminals and now simply destroy every industry they "organize".


8 posted on 10/17/2005 9:31:36 AM PDT by wvobiwan (Liberal Slogan: "News maganizes don't kill people, Muslims do." - Ann Coulter)
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To: AbeKrieger

"Is someone implying that a union member might be getting paid for not working?"

Implying!?!
The aricle maintains that the worker 'pool' is written into the UAW contract.


9 posted on 10/17/2005 9:32:09 AM PDT by WmCraven_Wk
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To: WmCraven_Wk
A normal person, if they found themself in this situation, would not watch videos or do crossword puzzles. A normal person wopuld say "This can't last. They're gonna lay me off real soon. I better pick up a skill." And they'd spend their day studying real estate, or software engineering, or clock repair or something!

Unions are like Welfare: they create people stuck on lazy and stupid.

10 posted on 10/17/2005 9:32:18 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: AbeKrieger
Is someone implying that a union member might be getting paid for not working? This is simply appalling and unheard-of.

My brother works for the People's Republic of Rhode Island.He can tell ya stories that would send your blood pressure through the roof!

11 posted on 10/17/2005 9:33:27 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Inflation = People paid for no work


12 posted on 10/17/2005 9:33:31 AM PDT by litehaus
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To: DogBarkTree; Owl_Eagle; Sam's Army; Lazamataz; Darksheare; pissant; Dashing Dasher; najida; ...
"and Unions cry because their jobs have been sent to Mexico and China?"

And the businesses send more jobs overseas where there are no unions to cause a situation like this.

13 posted on 10/17/2005 9:34:36 AM PDT by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
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To: tom paine 2

"The "executives" that allowed this piece of crap in the contract should be hung from the nearest tree.
"

Amen!


14 posted on 10/17/2005 9:35:00 AM PDT by calrighty ( Terrorists are like cockroaches . Kill em all soon!!)
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To: WmCraven_Wk
"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

What kind of a person would accept that for years on end? I'm as lazy as the next guy, but the sloth and lack of any accomplishment would drive me crazy!

I remember after a particularly tough college/work year, I decided to take a month off. I slept in, sat around the house, etc., in a most dedicated fashion. At the two-week point I was about to pull my hair out -- I started working for a non-profit until school started up again.

15 posted on 10/17/2005 9:35:10 AM PDT by inkling
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To: DogBarkTree
Unions cry because their jobs have been sent to Mexico and China?

For most industries this is correct. The auto industry is different, plants in Mexico and other countries are generally non union, low paying, and less regulated.
This makes them cheaper to run thus improving the bottom line for the car companies.

The UAW members know that the Big Three can't compete with the wages and costs that American workers require so they turn a blind eye to this practice.

In short, the UAW members are benefiting from the sweat and toil of foreign workers.
16 posted on 10/17/2005 9:38:33 AM PDT by HEY4QDEMS (Ham & Eggs: A day's work for a hen, A lifetime commitment for a pig.)
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To: tom paine 2
...should be hung from the nearest tree.

The proper word is hanged. Sorry one of my pet peeves.

17 posted on 10/17/2005 9:38:45 AM PDT by Sthitch
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To: Jersey Republican Biker Chick

Unions have made their own bed, now it's time for them to sleep...............


18 posted on 10/17/2005 9:38:50 AM PDT by Red Badger (In life, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you settle for...........)
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To: DogBarkTree
"and Unions cry because their jobs have been sent to Mexico and China?"

.....then they blame it on Bush, though unions have been actively destroying US industry since the 1970's when they succeeded in destroying the US steel industry and nearly bankrupted the US automotive industry.

19 posted on 10/17/2005 9:40:20 AM PDT by cake_crumb (They're Not Conservative Enough! Get a Rope so We Can Hang Ourselves!)
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To: Red Badger
"Unions have made their own bed, now it's time for them to sleep..............."

It is quite obvious why they tend to always support the liberal/democratic candidates.

20 posted on 10/17/2005 9:40:39 AM PDT by Jersey Republican Biker Chick (People too weak to follow their own dreams, will always find a way to discourage yours.)
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To: WmCraven_Wk
The longshoremans' union negotiated a similar arrangement in the port of New York some time ago. A bunch of senior longshoremen are basically paid to show up in the morning, punch a clock, and then go home for the rest of the day.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about this, but the port actually came out way ahead in the deal because having those workers sitting at home all day (or more likely holding another job) actually reaped substantial benefits for the port -- due to the dramatic decline in theft from the piers that resulted.

21 posted on 10/17/2005 9:40:52 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: WmCraven_Wk

>> We the many pay for the lucky few. <<

You own stock in GM? No? Then you're not paying for it. As a consumer, you are free to buy a less expensive car somewhere else.

GM wanted to introduce new tachniques which would harm job secuirty. Job security is a real benefit with a real value. the workers said, "we chose to work here, and we signed a contract, with the expectation of job security." GM could have offered them higher wages, like other positions with compensatory payments for low job secuirty (like CEO). But GM gambled that this arrangement would be the most profitable. Now they don't like it, and they want to reneg. Frankly, unless you work for GM, or own stock in GM, It's none of your business. If you do own stock in GM, your beef is with the management who struck the deal.

From an economic viewpoint, it is counterproductive to be paying a worker to do crossword puzzles. Maybe GM ought to do the same things with these workers that they would do with executives: offer them golden parachutes, so they can seek new work. But neither you nor I can make such a decision not knowing more specifics, so maybe there is a good reason GM doesn't do that, such as GM suspects they really WILL need more workers soon and wants to hold on to those they have.

Ever hear of companies demanding higher productivity fomr their workforce? That company is acknowledging that they have allowed workers to do less work then they think their workforce is capable of. Apparently, GM decided they didn't want employees learning non-productivity while on the line, so they concentrated non-productivity among certain workers off the line, so that when the workforce needed maximum productivity again, these workers wouldn't have poor work habits.


22 posted on 10/17/2005 9:41:07 AM PDT by dangus
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To: AbeKrieger
what is appaling is that it has taken from the 80s to now to tell this story enough times that the average person would have complained 10 years ago.

In Brazil the big three are selling Hybrid cars that run on 85% ethanol - 2of3 cars sold there are this type. But the big three think we are not interested in these cars.

The stories that tell why the big three have lost the market never stop. Quality is still not job ONE with far too many people in Detroit. Even the Koreans are building more reliable cars. What is wrong with the management??

23 posted on 10/17/2005 9:42:02 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: WmCraven_Wk

The guy across the street from me works at the local Ford plant, and he seems to spend about half of his time doing this. They call it the "gin pool", and they justify it by claiming that they are on hand to be assigned to work if somebody is absent. But most of the time, it's just paid waiting.


24 posted on 10/17/2005 9:42:03 AM PDT by Kenton (Tagline for rent)
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Forget the complaints, do the math! 12000 x 40hr/wk x 31/hr x 1.3 for benefits x 52 = $1,005,888,000 annual.


25 posted on 10/17/2005 9:44:20 AM PDT by newbeliever
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To: WmCraven_Wk

You'd think if he was bored enough, Ken Pool might wander down to the line, maybe help put a couple trucks together - but there's probably some union rule against that!


26 posted on 10/17/2005 9:44:20 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: dangus

"Frankly, unless you work for GM, or own stock in GM, It's none of your business. "

It's the business of every American to stop the socialist and criminal nightmare of unionization - a direct cause of job exportation.


27 posted on 10/17/2005 9:46:36 AM PDT by wvobiwan (Liberal Slogan: "News maganizes don't kill people, Muslims do." - Ann Coulter)
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To: tom paine 2
That's not possible. The International Brotherhood of Noosemakers strictly prohibits any execution of union "brothers", and using non-union hangmen is subject to violent picketing.
28 posted on 10/17/2005 9:46:58 AM PDT by Jokelahoma (Animal testing is a bad idea. They get all nervous and give wrong answers.)
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To: dangus

"GM wanted to introduce new tachniques which would harm job secuirty."

A parsite has 'job security' only until the host dies.


29 posted on 10/17/2005 9:47:22 AM PDT by WmCraven_Wk
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To: DogBarkTree

Funny you mention that. My "American Dodge" truck was made in Mexico by non union Mexicans, and my "Japanese Toyota" SUV was made in Tenessee by non union Americans. The unions better wake up. Their hammering the nails into their own coffins.


30 posted on 10/17/2005 9:47:50 AM PDT by hiramknight
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To: q_an_a
"In Brazil the big three are selling Hybrid cars that run on 85% ethanol - 2of3 cars sold there are this type. But the big three think we are not interested in these cars."

And they're right - you could own a dual-fuel vehicle today if you wanted one.
But I'm betting you don't.

You don't have the foggiest notion of what ethanol would cost without massive government subsidies, do you?

31 posted on 10/17/2005 9:48:47 AM PDT by Redbob
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To: q_an_a

Management can only do so much with union-protected labor - they don't actually build the cars. Firing a laborer for poor quality/productivity is just as hard as it is in the Fed. Govt. Unions are a direct cause of that, in all industries.

And actually, quality is NOT all that bad these days - my Ford is fabulous.


32 posted on 10/17/2005 9:49:42 AM PDT by wvobiwan (Liberal Slogan: "News maganizes don't kill people, Muslims do." - Ann Coulter)
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Will someone explain the difference between the UAW and the Mob again to me? Oh yes, the Mob is far less lucrative.


33 posted on 10/17/2005 9:49:44 AM PDT by Daus
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To: WmCraven_Wk
Not mentioned in the report on the jobs bank issue is the fact that when the NAFTA agreement inspired the flood of jobs that began flowing south of the border, the UAW signed an agreement with GM and Packard Electric (Delphi) in an attempt to keep as many jobs here in the US.

The agreement specified a certain percentage of workers would be retained in domestic plants (the lifetime jobs agreement) and allow GM to open ventures in Mexico and elsewhere in the joint interest of remaining competitive.

As time went on GM could not resist the temptation to send more jobs south than agreed upon...This created the "jobs bank" where workers were kept with full pay, but no specific duties.

GM and Delphi could empty the jobs bank overnight if they brought back 12,000 jobs from Mexico (Delphi employs 30,000 there alone), but that seems to be an unpopular notion both in the boardroom and among their anti-union sympathizers.

As usual, a story such as this is never as simple and clear cut as the headline implies.
34 posted on 10/17/2005 9:52:22 AM PDT by JohnnyGunns (Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day...Give him a computer, he wont bother you for a week)
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To: dangus

"Apparently, GM decided they didn't want employees learning non-productivity while on the line, so they concentrated non-productivity among certain workers off the line, so that when the workforce needed maximum productivity again, these workers wouldn't have poor work habits. "

Whoa, dude. You need to either up your meds, or lower them. That's some interesting logic.

Remember: "What's good for GM is good for America?" Well, we all have a stake in this. It IS our business, stock holder or not. It effects tax base, and our neighbors.

Unions will never go away, because abusive management will never go away. However, the union became too strong, and too corrupt. It's time for adjustment.

Maybe, just maybe, with their butts on the line too... unions will learn to work WITH management, instead of AGAINST them?


35 posted on 10/17/2005 9:53:47 AM PDT by brownsfan (It's not a war on terror... it's a war with islam.)
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To: dangus
Frankly, unless you work for GM, or own stock in GM, It's none of your business.

This might seem like a valid statement on its face, but it became "our business" once the pension and health care obligations for all of these workers were guaranteed by the Federal government under the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation (PBGC).

And make no mistake about it -- the U.S. taxpayer is eventually going to pick up the tab for every one of these workers at some point in the not-too-distant future.

36 posted on 10/17/2005 9:53:49 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: hiramknight

There are no non-union workers in Mexico. Every laborer in Mexico is part of a union. Mexico is a socialist country.


37 posted on 10/17/2005 9:54:53 AM PDT by tom paine 2
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To: tom paine 2

The "executives" that allowed this piece of crap in the contract should be hung from the nearest tree.
---

They can't do anything. Blame the lawmakers that pass labor laws that make it impossible to fire these workers.


38 posted on 10/17/2005 9:55:55 AM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/secondaryproblemsofsocialism.htm)
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Until and unless American Unions become the guarrentor of an appropriate sized, highly skilled, efficient and dedicated workforce, they will forever be a thorn in the side of America's economy. Rather than anti-competetive, unions could become an indespensable component of our global sucess story.....but they won't!


39 posted on 10/17/2005 9:59:28 AM PDT by cartoonistx
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To: JohnnyGunns
You hit on a very simple issue with these "Big Three" auto manufacturers. They basically function as "closed shops" when it comes to their union employees, in which they outsource increasing amounts of work to foreign countries just to maintain their overall labor costs company-wide.

Ford, for example, might employ 2,000 union workers at $35 per hour in a plant in Michigan -- but they can only do so by having another 5,000 workers outside the U.S. working for $5 per hour. Toyota, on the other hand, might employ 3,500 non-union workers at $20 per hour in a plant in Texas. They can hire more U.S. workers because the U.S. workers cost less, and they only need about 2,000 workers outside the U.S. at $5 per hour in order to remain profitable.

This is one key reason why Japanese plants in the U.S. typically have more assembly-line employees than their "Big Three" counterparts.

40 posted on 10/17/2005 10:00:38 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: WmCraven_Wk
No college or GEDE courses to fill in the long hours of idleness? Perish the thought.

Just keep criticizing and envying the "suits" who busted their asses and lost potential wages while in college and grad school, just to make the $60K/year or so the Yewn-yun brothers and sisters make for sitting on their own asses.......

41 posted on 10/17/2005 10:00:55 AM PDT by tracer
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To: dangus
When the janitor at Delphi makes $27 an hour ($60 with benefits), you have a problem. Let them strike... Delphi and GM will have no trouble filling their shoes. Heck, I'll do that job for $20. There, i saved them money already. Get rid of the unions and open up the auto industry to the free market system and live like the rest of us. My husband's shop went union about 12 years ago (he is management and therefore not in the union). Since that time, productivity has gone down, they've lost jobs (once they employed 1000+ people, now down to 400) and laziness has increased. They have caught the rank and file stealing on video, assaulting management (my husband, again on video) but nonetheless the union stewards demand, and get, those people hired back. Good riddance to the UAW. May it rest in peace.
42 posted on 10/17/2005 10:06:04 AM PDT by bella1
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To: Gay State Conservative

Federal Civil Service has some of these jobs but chose not to get one.
The democratic peoples republic of New Orleans has a good system for those on the Police rolls who do not work.
And nothing has been done about the situation except send them more federal money.


43 posted on 10/17/2005 10:08:10 AM PDT by southland (New Orleans was an incident waiting to happen.)
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To: Daus

That is because of government intervention.


44 posted on 10/17/2005 10:16:08 AM PDT by bdfromlv (Leavenworth hard time)
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To: Alberta's Child

That's probably a good point to consider, Canada for instance requires a percentage of everthing sold there to be built there. That's why there's a Zippo factory in Niagara Falls.

The auto companies don't keep factories there for the weather.

I'm not a big proponent of outsourcing and think there's some logic to Canada's trade law. I'd like to see more protection here from companies that clear the timecards of domestic workers for the sole sake of profiteering on third world labor.

I imagine you're right though, that cheap labor allows companies to pay living wages here, but there seems to be a trend to outsource more and more of those living wages to other countries. The aparent motive is greed and our trade laws are complicant.


45 posted on 10/17/2005 10:17:37 AM PDT by JohnnyGunns (Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day...Give him a computer, he wont bother you for a week)
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To: traviskicks

It is the spineless weasels in the board room especially the accountants that won't let the company take a strike not the lawmakers.


46 posted on 10/17/2005 10:20:12 AM PDT by tom paine 2
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To: WmCraven_Wk

Which would you prefer -- a car made by a UAW thug or one made in Ohio by a Honda Associate wearing a white lab coat?


47 posted on 10/17/2005 10:20:18 AM PDT by JoeGar
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To: traviskicks

It is the spineless weasels in the board room especially the accountants that won't let the company take a strike not the lawmakers.


48 posted on 10/17/2005 10:21:23 AM PDT by tom paine 2
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To: tom paine 2

"There are no non-union workers in Mexico. Every laborer in Mexico is part of a union."

You may be right. But it's not the UAW.


49 posted on 10/17/2005 10:21:36 AM PDT by hiramknight
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To: inkling

"I'm as lazy as the next guy, but the sloth and lack of any accomplishment would drive me crazy!"

It may do the same to them. But where else are they gonna go and get $31/hr with bennies?


50 posted on 10/17/2005 10:22:31 AM PDT by Pessimist
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